Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

New Block Graphics Feedback

Discussion in 'General' started by Hellothere!, Dec 9, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Hellothere! Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    412
    So the new graphics are finally out and first I would like to congratulate the designers on the overall job they did. Most of the new models are simply stunning and while my already pathetic framerate is now struggling even more that's totally worth it.
    I do however have some minor to major criticisms with some some models. I am fully aware that my opinions a subjective and do not represent the entire community.

    I encourage everybody to freely disagree with me on all subjects.

    With that out of the way let's get started:

    1. Wheels
    While I really like the overall look of the new wheels (serious kudos to whoever did the model) I did a double take when I saw the tiny axle attached to the back:

    [​IMG]

    This looks just completely plain wrong. Are you seriously trying to tell you that I giant wheel about the size of my house that is intended to be used on fucking land-aircraft-carriers is supported by an axle the size of my head? In fact all the axles on all the wheels look ways to flimsy.

    Make them thicker!

    2. Atmospheric Thrusters
    This is once again only partial criticism. The back end and the sides look awesome. I do however have some issues with the design of the fan in the front. It really lacks the visual distinctness of the old model.

    This can best be demonstrated with some screenshots. Here is a screenshot of an atmospheric fighter I build from before the update:
    [​IMG]

    On the old model it was possible to get really high contrast between the outer casing of the engine and the fan itself which made jet engines extremely easily identifiable.
    Thus they made great design elements. With just one look at the ship above you can see "Hey, there's two large jet engines on top behind the cockpit.

    Now let's compare the new version:
    [​IMG]
    Since on the new engines both the fan and the casing are the same silver-metallic you have to be really close to the engine to actually make out the fan itself. Even from this short distance the entire front looks just like a silvery blob that completely disappears between all the other new visual features of the ship.

    Now, I aware that this is just a matter of taste but I would really prefer if the engine fans got more contrast again so you can actually see them.
    Also is it just me or should the fans themselves be a bit bigger compared to the rest of the engine.

    3. Passenger Seats

    The new seat models look great. They also look really out of place though.
    Since the graphical overhaul most ships became even more rugged/ industrially looking than they already did before. With that in mind those comfy designer seats look kind of weird

    I'll just leave a picture of my dropship passenger bay here:

    [​IMG]

    Now I am not for completely taking out those new models because in the right places they look pretty cool but I think in the vast majority of cases where such seats are actually used by people in their designs they don't look like they belong. In my opinion we definitely need a more utilitarian alternative for these models. To a lesser extend this also applies to control stations but the issue isn't quite as big there.


    4. Gattling Guns

    While the new gattling guns look great I noticed they are quite a bit shorter than the old models. The block size and physics boundaries were not adjusted though:

    [​IMG]

    This block is just laying on top of air.
    No matter whether you decide to elongate the guns or adjust the boundaries this needs to be fixed :woot:

    Also could you maybe add that circle visual you could find on the back end of the old blocks back in? I really liked how it looked like the rotationary mechanism of the gun was anchored there and it definitely looked better than the current boring plain cube-front that's in it's place now.

    So these were my criticisms with the new blocks. Do you think I'm just overly nostalgic towards the old blocks or do you agree with me?
    Do you have any issues with other blocks? Feel free to write it.

    I would really like to see a bit of a discussion on which parts of the new update you like and which you don't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. Bruce LeedleLeedleLeedleLee Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    813
    My issues are the 'stairs' window block not being changed, aswell as the small ship rocket launcher and the head of the large ship laser antenna
     
  3. Devon_v Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,602
    The blocks aren't all finished, it's just finished enough to get them out so we can offer feedback.

    I'm happy with most of it, but the armor textures are still awkward. Pretty sure they know that though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Bruce LeedleLeedleLeedleLee Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    813
    heavy armor is great, light armor has these weird lines
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    958
    Armour textures aren't just bad, they are straight up awful
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. AceNepets Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    121
    Two comments:
    1. I miss the look of the Ion Thrusters. The new design makes no sense at all. How does it dissipate heat without the Carbon-Carbon Nozzle the original ones have?
    2. The new warhead is confusing me with the projector block, I preferred the look of the original warhead.
    3. Ok, here is a 3rd: The Cryo Chamber has the LCD panel in the middle of the door. Why? It was always on the side of the frame like any sensible designer would do. Perhaps to avoid confusing which chamber in a bank of chambers?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    744
    The following is quoting from what I posted on Reddit:
    ...
    Going to preface this by saying that I'm very happy with this week's update. Netcode, optimization, scenario support and a tutorial, features like magboots and VOIP- this is all absolutely amazing.

    But

    I'm really not that fond of the new block models. It's like I've been saying for the last few months:
    I've posted an album of images that I feel like illustrate my point. As I've said- aesthetics are totally subjective: there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with me. I just wanted to voice my opinion.
    ...
    The album I mention
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  8. Howitz Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    591
    i would not say that i am satisfied with all of the models either, they sure put a lot of work on them and props to them for it but they can for sure take some more work following feedback

    i have some points to bring here.

    1. i always wanted reloadable turrets to work in such a way that during reloading, the rotating part of the turret would look upwards to connect a conveyor door on its back to its base during the animation, that would make for aesthetically realistic looking reloadable turrets.
    2. armor patterns can surely take some improvement as whiplash mentionned.

    3. having good hitboxes and textures not going trought eachother like on the missile turrets when they turn looking upwards is always a good idea.

    4. i feel like some simple blocks have way too much complexity into them, too much is like not enought as they say, i mean, dont necessarily go back to simple previous models but im sure there can be some middle ground.

    i might edit this later if more ideas come to my mind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,300
    I think the catwalks and Blast Doors (with those friggin' indents) are the primary offenders here, because they are and were so damned important for creating planed surfaces that weren't Armor Blocks.

    I love the upgrades to the functional blocks, and I don't mind the greebling on the armor texture, but the catwalks and blast doors need fixing, full stop. If they are fixed, however, the existing "new" models should be left as scrollable options. I can see applications for their use, and would not mind keeping them around as aesthetic choices.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I don't hate the new models, but I'm not crazy about them either. For one they seem to really visually clutter up ships, they are also overly greebled/textured/weathered. It's a classic modellers mistake really.

    The gat barrels are in bad need of fixing too, they actually look worse than the old model IMO.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Plongo Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    42
    I want the light and heavy armour blocks to be different. They are to similar to the old style, which doesn't work with the new models. Spot light looks really weird lol. Everything else looks amazing though. Maybe alittle less yellow on the conveyor hatches? Also with the Gat guns, They seem really grey, maybe make them more silver or chrome? passenger Seat doesn't really fit with any design, i feel it needs a rework.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    I'm more or less happy with the new blocks. The Light Armour lines and wear need toning down and the spotlight is a bit rubbish, but generally I like them. However, despite the fact I like the new catwalk and blastdoor, they are no longer any good as a "blank". I think we need a "Armour Panel" for vanilla.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Wonkatoad Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    200
    The new chairs remind me of those tacky PRO GAMER computer chairs :D
    I'm sure they're pretty comfy though.

    [​IMG]

    No offense if you own one of these silly things :woot:
     
    • Funny Funny x 7
  14. Oselotti Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    837
    I really liked the old 3 barrell gatling gun model. It was beautiful. So could we please get it back as a new weapon type? Perhaps with slightly bigger caliber and slower fire rate. Other new blocks I like.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Bad Humour Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    116
    My biggest irk is the overall style they did it in, although it looks cool with the right build style it looks horrible in all other build styles. By making the models and blocks less generic they've made it so that the detailing doesn't work for all styles. All the sleek looking ships with all their seamless lines now look really crappy and ships with complex shapes using triangles now look like they've been put into a blender and stitched back together. The biggest culprit are the lines and scratches of armor blocks if they tone those down it would alleviate most of the aesthetic problems. They can do this by removing most scratches and by changing the colours of the lines to some hue or tint of the base block colour. This will make them look more like the original but at the same time look newer. Less of a problem are the catwalks which now look really cool but only as catwalks and no longer serve a purpose as armor panels to cover things up if needed. As someone else hear stated add armor armor panels mod or just simply remove the kind of grate hole in the middle of the catwalk. That simple change can do wonders.
    --- Automerge ---
    [​IMG]
    Ships like this are no longer good looking anything that is remotely sleek or futuristic just looks like botch job

    [​IMG]
    The interior is even worse as you can see all those bloody lines up close, this ship was prized for its great interior and it just looks like someone made it out of some junkyard leftovers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,097
    I agree on the chais... they are really out of place in comparison to que other blocks. =X
     
  17. noxLP Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    729
    I think the problem with armor now is that scratches makes the lines too much defined. See this and the one posted by @Bad Humour as an example:

    Now you can't make somewhat soft slops, whatever you make ends looking super blocky. The scratches are too much well defined, so every block, line and angle is clearly visible, so there are no way of create a round or soft slop appearance. With light armor is easier, but as have been said here, with heavy armor is nearly impossible.
    As opposite of @Bad Humour I love the overall style and look of new blocks, but imo this particular issue is a problem, and the problem are not scratches themself (that's a question of tastes), the problem is just the quantity, or the level if want to say that way, put it simple: it's too much. There are no way to hide it, and that limit the overall appearance of ships.

    Also, i agree with some things said here too: the ion thrusters nozzle (too much internals and no nozzle, too much to hide but no way to hide it because the hit box), the catwalks being so cool now as catwalks but no longer usable as wall panels or armor panels, the turrets needing some visible way to reload (even when they don't use it, but that is visible, f.i. gatling turrets could just have one of that flexible ammo magazine connected to the bottom inventory box).

    There are other thing i wanted to write down here:

    I'm not sure it's well visible here, but i'm referring to the large grid small light. In the picture you can see how it is attached to the top of a new door, the model have the light by one side and a rectangle by the other side, so it clips through the other block. It was that way since the beginning, but i think now it's worst, it's larger, instead of being smaller. It's pretty visible when you are walking, and it happens not only with doors.
    I'd be sooo happy to not see that rectangle in the middle of my door...:((
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    +1 about the Gatling and the catwalks. I really liked that the tri-barrel muzzle came up to the block edge.
    And interior block. I think some of the examples you guys are posting will look noisy no matter what, just not clean design. But the catwalks, that is drastic change in visual noise.

    And agree that the seat is a little round/organic compared to the rest.

    The atmo, it looks badass. But also like $5000 wheels on a $350 car.

    Other than these nit picks, very happy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. TreatonUP Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    14
    I love those blocks like thrusters, gyros, reactors and landing gears. But the normal building Block just does not look right on most of the ships, because it is worn down and looks scratched. That does not fit at all if you build a new ship and it looks like it has been in use for 2 years at least.
    The solution:
    2 Different BLock models for the base blocks, one that looks sleek and clean, and then this one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. darth_biomech Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,550
    I'm sorry, no, new Gatlings are not great. They're horrible!

    Old model was looking like an aircraft weapon - like it should.
    A lot like real life GAU-19, actually:
    [​IMG]

    New Gatling looks like a cartoonish gun - simplistic and exaggerated. Shortness of it doesn't help either.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
  21. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    About the suspension, I think the block needs to be articulated. For now we are stuck with the skinny spindle as a function of how the block actually works..
     
  22. Thalyn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    19
    The only issues I've come across are issues of alignment. In particular the Large Grid Gatling Turret which appears to sit slightly off towards one side (and it looks downright weird just sitting on top of a conveyor tube), and also Landing Gear which no longer neatly butts up to a single block rather about 1½ of them (and also appears to be shifted towards the back slightly). This is, of course, in addition to the texture misalignment on some of the armour blocks.

    Otherwise, while I don't necessarily agree with the artistic direction (I would have gone more towards a crude industrial look) it's definitely a welcome change over what was there before. Not that the placeholders were bad.

    Incidentally, the rotary cannon (Gatling Gun is one specific type of them, not the family of weapons to which they belong) isn't that far off from other models currently in use, such as on the GAU-8, GAU-17, M134 or GSh-6-23. The short barrels, however, make it look a bit less realistic and would severely limit its effective range.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  23. TreatonUP Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    14
    You are right, small grid landing grid is fine, large grid landing grid is too big (you can go through the texture).
    Totally agree on the gattlin guns, old ones where perfectly fine IMO.
     
  24. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    174
    I haven't had the chance to look at the new models yet but there is one thing I keep noticing in pictures and videos - the small ship drill. I was hoping the new models will make the large ship drill look like the small ship one. Instead now it seems the hideous large drill has cloned itself into a small one. I hope I am not the only one that has a problem with it, because I really like making mining ships and I have been intentionally avoiding making large grid mining ships/platforms because of the ugly drills.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  25. SF-1 Raptor Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    740
    Actually, the new model looks like a mini-gun, which is a Gatling gun variant.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  26. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    Actually, it looks like a cheese factory. Darth_biomech is right.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  27. kcjunkbox Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,130
    The large drill design makes more sense though. It would crush and draw the ore into the center of the three grinder/bits so it could be collected through a center feed system rather than spun off into space like the small ship design with spikes that would just break pieces loose and not be able to collect them.
     
  28. Hellothere! Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    412
    I would really like the idea of having the old three-barrel-design in the gun's current function and have the new six barrel gun as a high rate of fire, lower yield minigun that fires in a tight cone instead of a straight line.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  29. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    396
    To be fair i kind of wish they made flat armor panes with multiple shapes like the catwalks because even the old catwalks stood out a bit. But I completely agree implementing both models. That'd be sweet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    The new model looks like a cartoon version of what a minigun would look like - pretty much exactly like the second picture he linked ;)

    One problem is that the barrel is too short by 1 block, that's bad for gameplay as well as for aesthetics. The large barrel count and large bores simply do not fit with the actual firepower of the SE gat, which is quite modest. There is also a graphical glitch that causes untexture pink to poke at the barrels from certain angles.

    Jump drive also has this problem of pink showing.

    Other blocks/features I don't like: the timer and the pb. PB looks like it should have more than 1 mount point and the timer has way too bulky and greebly of a frame for what should be a very simple and clean block: a box with a flashy bit indicating it's status.

    Overall I think the status indicators have been overly muted. Operational state of timers, landing gear locks, and welders used to be highly visible from extended range but now it's quite hard to see what is going on even up close from certain angles.

    The H2 tanks just look like abused trash cans unless you go with a color/saturation combo that hides all of that mess - like bright white, etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.