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No windows on a Space-Ship.. Or..

Discussion in 'General' started by chrisb, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    I was looking at my latest build and thinking, I've got quite a few windows onboard (it's an exploration ship).

    Got me thinking about windows and space ships.. Obviously I think there wouldn't be any because of the conditions out there, so is it right to have them in-game, if thinking 'realistic/realism'.

    Most all my ships have windows. Would be nice to put a cam view direct to a screen, without having to mod it.

    Or.. Could we say they may feasibly in the future make a type that could be used out in space, not 'orbit' but space.

    What do players think regards 'Windows'..

    I know it's only a game, but just wondered. ;)
     
  2. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    really ? There are windows on the ISS :

    [​IMG]
     
  3. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    But it's different in near orbit, or is it. I thought within orbit your o.k. for small windows. But further out mean's much more radiation, so windows.. perhaps not.

    I'm not sure, but good to get feedback. Do you have windows on your ships ?
     
  4. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    I do in most cases, because I mostly play in first person and like to see where I'm going, using cameras is jenky at best. :) The default space spawnships have always been fitted with them.
     
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  5. histidin Trainee Engineer

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    no its not much different.. the ISS is too high above atmosphere that shield us from radiation. (Astronaut on space station for six months will receive about 80 000 microsieverts worth of radiation) but yeah if you look thru window to the Sun its not great idea. They have shutters on windows to protect them against micrometeorites and radiation.. and Saturn V had windows.. (command module and apollo had windows so they could connect or land not just look outside).
    And theoreticly you can put water between two glass sheets to insulate window from radiation as water provide protection from penetrating gamma rays
     
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  6. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    @Roxette Yeah, I fit windows, like said, playing first person you have too.

    But I've been playing using camera's placed and having shortcuts to the select bar. That way you get instant look out as though you were viewing it from the bridge on a screen. It's a little removed from first person, but keep's the idea intact ie. not third person.
    Although I use third person with some ships, when I have to land.. Large.. ;)

    @histidin.. I thought radiation was much worse further out.. But as said, I'm not sure. Maybe as you say it's not. I'll have to look up some details.

    Windows in ships because its a game, well yes, why not. I'll probably keep using them, but I would love to have cam view direct to a screen in the bridge, there is a mod I used, made it much more believeable. But I'm trying to stay as vanilla as pos with my ships.
     
  7. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    Yep, I've done that for a long time with cameras at connectors, makes docking manoeuvres a lot easier ^.^
     
  8. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    I prefer Linux on my space ships. Comedy gold aside, given that your engineer is wearing a space suit I would imagine that between the windows and the suit, radiation isn't an issue. space debris on the other hand... but I would also imagine that given space engineers is set in 2077 and that space travel/exploration has become a huge thing, I imagine the technology for strong windows is there. If you want to be realistic about it, you can always just spray your ship with turret fire every now and then to simulate space debris.

    Personally if I was designing an IRL space ship I wouldn't have windows on them, since a neat view isn't worth a tiny rock shattering it and killing the crew, and more importantly, my ship. Perhaps windows with armored panels on them would be a neat compromise...
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I'm fairly certain that everything we've ever launched into space that had a person inside had windows. What we have never seen in space is big picture Space Engineers sized windows;)

    We have the technology today to make glass that is at least as tough as any other material that we use to build spacecraft. For that matter, the material might not actually be glass as we know it. The "transparent aluminum" that the Enterprise crew gazes through in Star Trek has already been made, according to the internet :D. We can mass-produce diamond. Human beings tend to want to see things "with their own eyes." Cameras just don't cut it. Heck, by 2077 even submarines will have SE sized windows.

    I seem to recall that Keen introduced the camera in order to entice people away from third-person spacecraft operation, in an attempt to make the game more realistic. Showing a live camera feed on an LCD screen proved to be performance prohibitive. It was tried by Modders. One required running a separate app. Probably won't happen with the current game, but I'm sure it's something we can look forward to in Keen's next game ;)

    I play the game as a merchant, so my ships essentially have no armor. "The larger the ship, the more glass it has" seems to be a common thread in my ship designs. I build my ships big enough to have people inside. It just seems to me that if you are cooped up in a spacecraft of any size you would want to be able to see outside with your own eyes, so my big ships have lots of windows. Every bridge is like sitting in a fish bowl.







    I think it's too late to port the game to Linux, but they should make a Linux Server Edition for people that want to run servers.








    What? He asked what I thought regards Windows.
     
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  10. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    I play on a PvP server. Every ship I have encountered with windows into the cabin has been either a spawn ship, a dead ship, or a ship that I killed with laughable ease. Windows in SE are terribly weak. Even if we disabled third person mode, I would not put windows into my cockpit area. (I have used windows to defend cameras, but windows are so weak it hardly matters.)

    I think this gameplay reality is unfortunate, as third person is immersion-breaking. Hopefully Keen deigns to make a better cockpit defense or visibility option that facilitates 1st person play eventually.
     
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  11. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    @Cyber Cheese I have to disagree on the windows being weak, I have had times where my armor blocks go poof and I am left with just windows. Lol.
     
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  12. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    They already did. They're called cameras. Everyone I know builds two bridges on their warships. One with windows for normal operations, and one without windows and completely surrounded by armor for when the fighting starts. It was the easiest, simplest, best option, and it works.

    My ships aren't built for combat, so I can go crazy.

    In fact, I have:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    On my ships, no one is allowed to throw stones :D

    Actually, I believe windows are or nearly the same as light armor. Since you're always in your suit in SE, even in bed, windows really only constitute a sudden decompression event which is hardly hazardous. I'm pretty sure there are glass mods that probably exceed heavy armor specs. I would not find that out of line with SE's tech limits.

    If you don't like mods, you could pester Keen to make a "Battle Glass" DLC. I'm guessing the next big update is going to be weapons and such anyways ;)
     
  13. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    Realistically windows are probably a bad idea but then again building anything from Steel that is intended to enter the atmosphere of another planet is a bad idea too and there are reasons we didn't build the ISS from cubes of steel :)

    For gameplay and "sci-fi" reasons though I build using windows because SE can be damned pretty at times.

    EDIT: Heck, they built glass tanks full of coolant that liquified flesh on contact in the engineering section of a combat ship in Star Trek: First Contact for "plot reasons" and ask the Empire Remnant if windows in the bridge of Super Star Destroyers was a good idea :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  14. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    Thanks all, forthe replies.

    I think in general windows of these sizes are unrealistic (today). However if I remove myself to beyond 2077 +++ (or wnehever) then we have windows that are much larger that can be used.. ;)
    So for that reason, I think I'll keep using them.

    @Stardriver907 . Most of my ships well all really, are none combat type, so I tend to view windows very favourably. But with my latest build I have used the shutter/vent block to protect most windows. Agree regards the bridge, just make it air-tight and have an internal with cameras availble to view. That and make sure you have enough power to run.......... :eek:

    @mojomann71 . I agree the windows are pretty tough. Well as good as standard block, lets say.. ;)

    @Cyber Cheese . I can imagine in combat, windows would be better protected or used sparingly. But they are tough, as in most standard use cases.. :)

    @Roxette . Yes cameras are the thing for ease of landing etc in first person. Just wish we could link them to screens without modding. :)

    @histidin . I can imagine mirco meteorites being a problem with glass, so protection is the thing.. I suppose. ;)

    @zachusaman . Yes I agree. Better to protect or leave out. But as said, 2077 and beyond, with progress the way it is and speed its moving.. It's very likely we'll have something transparent to look through, may not be glass as such. ;)
     
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  15. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    I just wish they gave a clear view without modding, instead of looking like a recycled CCTV camera from the 1980's that had seen 150 years of use in a corner shop.
     
  16. dispair Apprentice Engineer

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    I use windows. As stated above most of my ships also have two bridges, a flight bridge and a combat control center deep in the ship. Non military ships own have big bay windows because (as above) SE can look nice.
     
  17. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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  18. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    Sure, if you want your futuristic game to feel like you're guarding a warehouse in the 1950's. Oh, and you want to sacrifice one of only 10 hotkeys for each view, so forget trying to check all six vectors without both wasting your whole toolbar and losing your bearings.

    Don't get me wrong, I use cameras. But cameras are only functional in combat for precision shots, and they are even weaker than cockpits. In practice, every fight I have had I end up in 3rd person. Thus, see my previous post about breaking immersion.
     
  19. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    Only one hotkey needed, use [ and ] to select cameras... but yes the standard overlay crap looks terrible, that's one of a few files I change in the stock installation so it is usable locally and on stock servers.
     
  20. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I think it depends on the implementation. For instance, using cameras to operate a fighter in battle could be a handful if you're trying to keep track of all six vectors. On the other hand, it's a snap in my much less maneuverable kilometer-long 200MT mothership. In the first instance, a fighter at most has two people, and most people build for only one person, so the fighter cockpit provides the view you need using windows. I would think you would only need a camera for the rear view. In the second instance, the larger the ship, the more people there should be aboard able to use all the cameras and no one person should be expected to monitor all the views and fly the ship.

    Agreed. But I believe the current camera, and it's overlay, is a placeholder. We might get a new camera, a new overlay or, I'm betting, a DLC camera with animated overlays. Perhaps something that can tell you how far away the thing you're looking at is, or give you its coordinates.

    But, you know how Marek is about glass. Maybe he's the same way about camera overlays ;)
     
  21. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

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    I tend to use a cockpit with a small array of windows in front. I get all the advantages of a O2 sealed deck but no need to worry about sealing it i . So a broken window is no real threat. My latest design has a wall of shutters (mod) between the cockpit and windows for added security, albeit, minimal. With the shield mod in place I can still look out my windows or just close them down and revert to "battle stations" and engage the shield and shutters. My initial testing shows it is viable but not for long term heavy engagements. Which is my normal play style.. get in/get out or random short lived encounters.