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*Official Poll* Balancing Survival - Your thoughts and suggestions

Discussion in 'Survival' started by CommanderHerpDerp, Jul 2, 2014.

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  1. Syko Trainee Engineer

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    78
    I'm a uni student and only get a few hours a week to play your game, and I'd rather not spend 3/4 of it welding and grinding. But it also means that I can realistically build large ships in the time I have.
     
  2. Anthony Power Trainee Engineer

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    I was wondering if a vacuum or magnetic or gravity built in collector might be a good idea, smaller mining ships could more easily pickup materials without useing the space and power required by a second gravity generator. Another good idea would be command group if then statements like if gravgen1 = off then gravgen2 = on. Other than that maybe have a local item import and save feature that allows you to have an item prepare so you just plunk it where you want and then weld it together for material cost. Would make building a generic base module or small ship or ship interior and/or custom factory setup easier.
     
  3. Kochean Trainee Engineer

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    65
    I voted no.

    The reasoning i have for it is that most of the blocks seem to weld/grind at reasonable speeds and makes working towards making the ship mounted tools a logical step.

    Solar panels are my exception to the above statement, they by far take many times longer than a heavy armor plate to weld. Only reason I could see them taking that long to build was if they produced like 1/4 to 1/2 the power of a small reactor. Additionally if we had access to batteries that would charge and transfer from ship to ship to power the vessel in lieu of reactors i would be fine with the construction time.
     
  4. aRottenKomquat Apprentice Engineer

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    351
    I think the hand tools are fine, but the ship-mounted ones should be a bit faster than they are now.

    Personally I think component assembly time/cost needs to be examined more closely. Many blocks (interior walls, catwalks, stairs, etc.) take way too long to gather components and weld, and I end up just using light armor instead. Light armor should NOT be the best all-around block for every purpose, it's armor plating! Interior walls should be the cheapest and quickest IMO. Also construction components take way too long to build in the assemblers.

    Solar panels are fine IMO, but I could see doubling their power output. No more than double though. I see solar power as backup power to keep a few essential systems running without using uranium. On my dedicated server, I have an array of 21 panels on my main station and that's enough to power my beacon, medbay, artificial gravity, and one refinery when I'm offline without burning uranium. If I'm online, chances are I have my reactor running.

    And I think that covers most of what I hear from the players on my dedicated server.
     
  5. Borr Trainee Engineer

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    2
    They shouldn't be made faster, they should work faster. To balance it, make that they use more energy to work. Some people don't have time to play so much time only grinding and welding things. Just my opinion.
     
  6. PeterHammerman Junior Engineer

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    652
    In survival x1 in 6 hours I am able to build asteroid eater, next 2h harvest resources to build capital ship. There should be much harder diffilcuty
     
  7. Snaaky Trainee Engineer

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    My suggestion is to make ore processing as fast as iron for all materials. Instead, make the yields much smaller for the "more expensive" materials. 10 tons of iron ore will process just as fast as 10 tons of platinum ore. You might get 1 ton of iron while you only get 0.1 ton of platinum. This change would probably require adjustments on the quantities of material required for some components.
     
  8. PhilHodgkins Trainee Engineer

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    Playing survival mode at normal speed meant leaving the game running for hours while enough ore (especially platinum) was refined to make what I needed. Leaving a computer on for hours for just running a game would be a problem for many people (CO2 emissions/cost). If this game is to be mass-market viable, then it should be playable in an hour or two a day.

    I was losing interest, but decided to 'cheat' and use x10. I can now do useful and interesting stuff in a couple of hours a day and now it's the main game I play.
     
  9. Vermillion Senior Engineer

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    2,131
    Mining needs to take considerably longer. We can somehow magically demolish an asteroid in seconds. Even if an asteroid was made of soft sandstone, we shouldn't be able to do that. Especially by hand, in many cases the player can outperform a small ship.
    Welding and Grinding is fine (excluding a few obscene blocks). If people don't have time to weld/grind, it's not a failing point of the game, it's a problem with them. If we could all weld and grind as fast as the once-a-week gamers want it, people would have their fleets inside of 3 hours of gameplay and it's "Goodbye game longevity! I've 'finished' Space Engineers; now onto Goat Simulator!".
    Cargo Containers hold 10x more than they should. You can fit an entire cargo ship into a small cargo container on 1x inventory settings. It makes any sort of cargo system pointless if you can fit an entire ship's inventory into 3 small containers (a container for Materials, Components and Ammo, and that's just to be tidy.).
    Iron Ore should refine slower(15-25% current speed). The speed at which iron refines is several times faster than any other ore. Fast enough to outproduce an assembler (several times over) turning the iron into steel plates. Sure you need a lot of it, but that's why you build multiple refineries (A fact that elludes some people), which leads to more ship/station expansion, more resource expenditure, bigger reactors and all-round game longevity to match the upkeep of a larger system. At 20% the current speed, Iron production is matched by assembler speed, with the refinery only being slightly faster.
     
  10. WiZz4Rd Trainee Engineer

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    14
    Please leave the Welder/Grinder speed as it is.
    Everyone talking about it beeing to slow: use grinder/welder ships...
    if the speed gets changed, I would be able to build a whole fleet in under an hour, now I needed roughly one or two days of gametime to build my large ship (covered inside large armor), including mining/salvaging time. Which I feel is quite right.
    You're able to build some fancy Welder ship in five minutes (not including mining time), after that you can get it to work and build the next one.
     
  11. Gary Evans Trainee Engineer

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    maybe instead of making the welders / grinders faster, make them upgradeable or a choice of welder types, maybe a multi welder this way we can work on getting better tools in game.
    Not sure if anyone else has said this I havnt read all posts yet but ive seen it on other games and it works well E.G. starforge have a drill to mine with and as u progress u can make better drills that mine faster
     
  12. Lancar Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    I'm of the opinion that Welding and Grinding speeds, as they are on 1x Realistic, is actually just fine with the sole exception of the Solar Panels. When we got the ability to build welder ships the hand-held welder output became a bit of a moot factor on the really big builds. All one has to do to build large constructs now is to make a suitable constructor ship with 2-6 welder heads.

    That said, in order to cater to as many people as possible you should have 1x, 3x and 10x settings for Welding/Grinding as well. You already have them for most everything else in the game that consumes time as a resource, so it only makes sense to implement it for this as well.

    Also, I think ship Welders need a couple of variants to make them more interesting.
    Right now, they just blanket weld anything in a small area around them. In my opinion, there should be two different kinds of ship welders you can build:
    one for area effect (the current one, welds many blocks at once. close range)
    and one for longer range precision (welds only 1 block, can reach much further).

    (I realize that last bit is a bit of a suggestion-forum thing, but I figured I'd mention it anyway as it pertains to the topic at hand.)


    As for general item and block balance, I think it's important that the actual size of the component at least somewhat matches their bulk when stuffed in your backpack.
    Presently, Thruster or reactor components are fairly tiny objects when dropped on the ground.
    Even Construction Components are much larger than they are.
    Yet, on 1x Realistic, you can carry over 180 of the CC's but only 30-50 of the others. It simply doesn't make a lot of sense.
    Either their art model needs to be made bigger, or their Volume decreased.
     
  13. Vaskadar Apprentice Engineer

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    357
    I honestly think there should be optional tweaks to the grinder/welder speed. While it is agonizingly slow to weld and grind, I think it's important that there is a frequency slider for asteroids, as well as a quantity slider. It seems like they go off at unpredictable intervals, and there's no clear indication as to when it's going to happen.
     
  14. samuel9900 Trainee Engineer

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    11
    It's good as It is....
     
  15. Bruiser87 Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I feel the game needs a research system. That can improve things like the welder, grinder, suit energy drain, and lots of other stuff. Can do it where one research makes your welder faster another where the welder uses less energy.Same with other things Maybe be able to research suit improvements something like mag boots so you can walk on other objects. If you add a research system people will also enjoy the game more because that adds another carrot to chase after.
     
  16. Azgodeth Trainee Engineer

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    98
    my main beef was the thruster power as well. most of the rest of things seem relativly well balanced. some things are bit too expensive and such, but again, youve already adressed this, so things should be looking up. welding and cutting times dont seem so bad to me, but then i dont mind spending an evening welding away a slow old hulk. perhaps improving the speed a little, and maybie going to 5x speed, 10x speed and 25x speed instead of 1x 3x and 10x, might make things more interesting for those who cant wait?
     
  17. Adam Jullyan Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Agreed, a research system would be good, maybe research faster welding speeds, or more efficient or faster thrusters (or both), or quicker or more efficient solar panels (or both)

    But as for weld speeds, maybe little faster but I typically make a welder ship and grinder ship. So that makes things faster. Perhaps making small/large ships work better/faster.

    Right now, even in survival, it's just a building game, a lot of people have stopped or slowed playing for that reason, many still play it regularly. Personally I typically pick it up a couple times a week when I used to play for hours every day.

    Even I need more then just building. Meteors were great but got old fast now I don't play with them on anymore. I still like the game tho.
     
  18. esparano Trainee Engineer

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    6
    I think welding speed is fine, but if it needs to be faster then I'd say only slightly faster. It forces you to build welding ships instead of welding everything by hand. I have a small ship with 6 welders and things are almost insta-welded as it passes them.

    Large ship thruster components should be lowered (or at least make platinum and similar ores refine faster).

    Right now refineries lag servers very much, so we are only allowed to run 6 refineries at a time. To refine the platinum required for a medium-sized frigate takes about a week with 6 refineries running full-time.

    Also, solar panels are basically useless. Even tripling their power might barely make them viable.
     
  19. fused Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    92
    I voted no. I am with everyone that is playing the games progression as its intended ... evolution. Ship attachments should be faster ... much faster than a hand held tool. If they are the same at a faster speed end game is much faster.

    Radio Components .... seriously .... less inventory space for those please.

    Aside from that I feel the balance for the game is fairly even. Welding power on ship attachments definitely should penetrate layers further so that even 4 small block layer deep components get finished. Anything deeper should require better planning when completing your projects. Either build sections and then merge block together to assemble (if they merge smooth enough without damage) or make smaller scaled welding ships to fit inside your large ship or station to complete welding projects. Or suck it up buttercup and wield that trusty handheld welder.
     
  20. Andon Senior Engineer

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    1,305
    I voted "No" because I feel that for most things, welding times are fine. Some things are incredibly tedious - Heavy armor, solar panels, things like that.

    what I would like to see is some form of improvement system for tools - And refineries and assemblers too. Additionally, I feel that "Survival" currently is just "Amass resources" with no actual threats. Once you get going, your momentum is nearly unstoppable. All the resources you need are easily claimable, especially with large ship drills that devour asteroid and small ship drills that fit into the tunnels in asteroids to selectively mine things.
     
  21. PurrfectBlinky Trainee Engineer

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    26
    Dont make grinding and welding speed a option, but a item per speed setting, so have the adamatium or iron drills for example, as with the rest of the tools :) (Minecraft-esk)
     
  22. Vesparco Trainee Engineer

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    3
    I am quite interested in the balancing of the materials required for some items. Is it true that the costs/volume of some elements are quite overburdening in terms of gameplay. Also, some key elements should even be unrealistic for the sake of playability (building refineries and large reactor is quite annoying, specially when setting the base upon start).

    About the wielding/cutting times should be, as everybody says, addressed by enabling custom configuration.

    Lastly, and although it was something I wanted to post in suggestions, how difficult would be to implement role-focused spacesuits? I say this because there are 2 main things it annoys me in survival.

    1. Energy recharge (when I have to build)
    2. Maximum carrying weight (when I need to mule)

    My tought was on three additional versions of spacesuit: Military (more health), engineering (more energy/faster tools), prospecting (more capacity/scoop capacity). Also, for the sake of a "neutral" is desired, maybe the advantage could impose a penalty on the other fields. These could be yet another solution to the topic, bringing a little bit more of coop :)
     
  23. Gaël Morin Trainee Engineer

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    1
    YES MASSIVELY IMPORTANT FOR MULTIPLAYER GAME PLAY !

    LOCKABLE BASES/SHIPS !!! Thank You !!!


     
  24. Kash028 Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Acho que o jogo deve ser realista, e se quiserem aumentar a velocidade de construção ou refinamento que coloquem opção personalizável de quantas vezes deve ser mais rápido, podendo escolher de 1 - 100x.
     
  25. AKoM Trainee Engineer

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    36
    I had to vote no on faster grinders and welders. seeing that you already can weld 2x2 area already they are saving enough time as it is.
     
  26. OracleTX Apprentice Engineer

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    196
    Most of the time I'm pretty satisfied with the grind/weld speed, it is just making umpteen trips to get components that is a pain. Comm equipment, solar cells, reactor components, and thruster components are the usual culprits that need the volumes reduced, but it looks like you're on that.

    I agree with some other posters that ship welders and grinders should be faster than the hand tools. I'd go for a speed bump on small ship tools, and a bigger bump for large ship tools.
     
  27. Phillip Spain Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I'm mostly concerned with the refining times and volume for players and objects. I'd like to be able to carry more than just 400l(which sometimes means only a few parts). With things like the assembler, I like to be able to set it on repeat, and program a variety of parts and components in, then go about my daily business, while it mass produces the components I need for whatever project or goal I have at the moment. But the assembler only has 1k liters of volume in it's raw materials slot. That just not enough for mass production. On the refining times; I've noticed that uranium takes a lot longer than any other ore to refine. If I need more power in order to keep things like my refinery and assembler running, I don't want to have to wait 2 hours. Especially if I'm refining large quantities. Shorter refining times in general would be fantastic, but I can wait for other ores, but I need power in order refine them. Which means I supply of uranium readily available. But I don't want to be sitting around my base/ship waiting for it to finish cooking so I can have enough power to refine my other ores so I can keep building. If you do nothing else; make uranium easier to refine. Please. :)
     
  28. hyperkiller3 Trainee Engineer

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    4
    there should be new tools, like an advanced welder/grinder and they work a lot faster (at the expense of more energy maybe?)
    and
    maybe something else like battery packs we can make and store in our inventory to have a higher charge limit (and able to modify how much/fast energy we use in the options)
    and
    the platnium needed for large thrusters are kinda rediculouse. either smaller thruster need or less materials to build them

    just a few things i noticed and other people i see complain about.

    as for in my survival, i made no re spawn ships and no AI cargo ships so you die/join in a cockpit flying at 104 while spinning lol. if only we could disable the re spawn ships completely i would like that.
     
  29. LloydVanBuren Trainee Engineer

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    8
    Personally I think the Ship based welders should be the faster ones.
    If anything, I think new materials and components should be added, along with new elements. Because we all know the Universe has more than that :D I know thats probably a lot more work on you guys' part, but I'm sure you've got it figured out.
     
  30. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

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    1,017
    I'm of the opinion that ship welders and grinders (with superior work area and power) should be quite a bit faster than comparable hand tools... But the hand tools should stay roughly where they are at. It's frustrating to build a nice utility ship and find it's not much faster than doing things by hand. But it should also be a bit of work and challenge to build those first things by hand. It should be like cavemen taking the time to make stone tools to improve their lives - if there is not an appreciable difference, there is no logical reason to spend the time and resources doing it.
     
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