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Oxygen nice! but what's planned.

Discussion in 'General' started by Caltinor, Mar 19, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Caltinor Trainee Engineer

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    so obviously oxygen is implemented into the game. The reveal video also made the point that this is just step one implementation. Realistically in survival, using the new update, i would just never take my helmet off. currently there is no reason, but i understand this is a stepping stone to further content.

    so my question is, to the devs, What is Oxygen the gateway for? What content should we expect from this?
     
  2. russo_bolado Junior Engineer

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    613
    I'm not a Developer, but I'd give my opinion anyway:

    If you try in Survival to capture a Military Transporter in the old-fashioned adventure way (i.e. sniping all turrets and disarming the ship's trap), you'll have to go back to your ship to recharge your suit at least 5-6 times (due to intensive grinding needed to hack all doors and welding Full-Cover Walls to kill Interior Turrets) and go back to the ship's Control Station 3-4 more times to recharge (after you find it).

    With Oxygen enabled, you would need to go back maybe 1-2 times (if you don't know the way inside the ship) to securely disable the Cargo Ship. This will improve inside exploration of ships and will allow players to play full missions and campaigns suit-only.
     
  3. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Uh, planets. They announce it like weeks ago.
     
  4. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    more life support features, I doubt there will be much in the way of penalties for not using it, explosive decompression, stuff and things.
     
  5. Spets Master Engineer

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    looks like there is food too, so
     
  6. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    that was someone seeing mod files apparently
     
  7. Spets Master Engineer

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    yup... :s
     
  8. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    we are John Snow.

    We know nothing.



    it will simply be speculation untill the next phase is released and feedback is had so KSH can actually go Oh ok this is how we should do this..........



    regarding the point of ill never remove my helmet

    for fun i actually spend the bulk of my weekend in a sealed tight suit surrounded by straps, webbing, clips holding everything down and being really uncomfortable and exposed to all sorts of pain .



    Yes i go scuba diving in the UK constantly and that requires some pretty specific kit, mainly a dry-suit.

    when i spend 2 days strait (8-12 hours) in a sealed, damp from sweat, humid and warm suit, and frankly i get LOTS of skin issues as a result. also no1 "comfort" systems arnt that comfy or reliable , and no2 isnt even considered apart from by seriously long duration deep divers (4-6 hours) where they wear an adult nappy as a justin case item, drop kit off if used, desuit and waddle to the head to dispose of it. its not nice, or sexy but it is something they have to endure.



    the reality is KSH simply has to force a suit change periodically unless unsealed for a considerable time frame. or else your health decays over time, slowdown of character and lack of responsiveness. the out of paper error waddle is bad enough in life imagine it in a sealed suit.

    and also Nappy rash. seriously


    i can see an entire human needs thing being implemented so its stop desuit, food, water , air, "shower", resuit and work again.
     
  9. THE_VB Junior Engineer

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    511
    1. 1st step to survival
    2. nerf of the space suit(slower, weaker, no storage)
    3. new suits for different purposes(or moddable suits): casual(faster), engineering(satchels for parts), medical(lets use medkits),
    EXO overlay(is combined with any suit, but needs energy to work. no energy = paralysis), lets move ship parts)
    Jetpack overlay(lets you fly, might ignite your a:D:D while in no suit or in pressurized room)
    magnetic exo boots(simply lets you walk inside a ship on walls)
    Battery suit(for internal construction)
     
  10. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Puts on space suit to go build spaceship. Can't build spaceship because can't carry anything.

    Genius.
     
  11. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    Well played sir. Just the right amount of sarcasm ;)
     
  12. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    A fundamental problem in this game in terms of "surviving" is that you have an unlimited number of clones at your disposal.

    I always interpreted that you have clones stored in those cylinders in the med bays, and they get activated quickly/trivially, including some fancy consciousness transfer so there is continuity between clone units (yeah, yeah, some seriously fancy tech).

    So individual bodies are entirely disposable, indeed your individual player lives, etc are worth far less than the hardware you built.

    And so the casualness with which you can just trash bodies means stuff like discomfort, food, water, etc are relatively meaningless.

    An overhaul of this system would have pretty serious negative consequences for PVP, so I'm not sure what the happy medium would be.
     
  13. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    You actually brought up one of the things that I always mention about survival. In all games you respawn so death isn't as much of a deterrent as one thinks. Zombies killed me in 7dtd? I'll respawn at my bed and rearm. Player killed me in rust? I'll respawn at my sleeping bag and rearm. Player killed me in dayz? I'll respawn on my... Well I'll respawn somewhere random and run back to my camp and rearm.

    In fact with the clone system in place I had plans to utilize that in the future. Once LEG's new carrier is built it's going to be sent away from the starting location to go mine distance places. But maybe I want to log in at the base first to do my daily inventory management. And once I'm done with that I want to go to the carrier. Well I'll just step into LEG industries murder box that will let you choose between drill death, welder death, grinder death, being shot, and now probably asphyxiation, and you can instantly teleport to the carriers medbay. And if you tell me that a clone should have health negatives as a deterrent I would have to ask why we're making defective clones that carrying over the previous hosts ailments.
     
  14. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    I was looking at the artwork in steam and found this. Also I have to say that there is some very good artist out there, and also funny stuff

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=303960827
     
  15. Hesterry Apprentice Engineer

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    Interesting point about clones... What would be very interesting is if, in addition to the respawn timers that already exist, medical rooms actually produced clones that could bypass respawn timers.

    Lets say the following things were true...
    • Base respawn timer is 15 minutes
    • Medical rooms (or a specialized clone bay) could use various resources (organic stuff produced with oxygen, among other things) to produce a clone every hour (or some other arbitrary number).
    • When a player dies, either they must either wait for the respawn timer, or use an available clone to respawn immediately.
    • Each medical room can only house a certain number of clones... Say, 3 (again, some arbitrary number).
    • Medical rooms must remain powered, have access to oxygen via conveyor, etc etc, or the onboard clones will die. Essentially, the medical room must be continuously fueled with certain resources.
    I think that this would make survival have meaning without disrupting PvP. Sure, players could build MASSIVE medical facilities, but they would have an intense resource requirement to maintain. Plus, who cares in PvE? It wouldn't be any worse than what we have now. Alternatively, in PvP, a huge medical facility would just be an easily disrupted target for enemy players.
     
  16. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    While we are on the subject of clones, I'd like to see clones require resources. Say H and O (which have now with water), as well as a whole list of other organics which we can just lump in as "trace organics" that's extracted at low rate from stone.

    I think your basic idea for a timer thing is solid: some base rate that reflects the time it takes to bring a clone online, coupled with a fixed clone storage capacity.

    One thing to keep in mind: lone survivor or similar starts give you a med bay and not much else, so it could be quite some time before you can supply resources and oxygen to the medbay -which would cause a ton of early game permadeath. So I think every bay needs to have a certain degree of autonomy and initial clone storage.
     
  17. Hesterry Apprentice Engineer

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    248
    Well, I think the key is that clones shouldn't be required by default. Certainly, that could be an option via the permanent death setting, but I think having the base respawn timer + respawn ship as a fallback is more than reasonable when permadeath is turned off. Plus, those optional starts you mentioned could start the med bay off with a full set of clones plus the resources to maintain them for a number of hours. Certainly though, some careful balancing would be required.
     
  18. RageMasterUK Apprentice Engineer

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    DDP-
    "Well I'll just step into LEG industries murder box that will let you choose between drill death, welder death, grinder death, being shot, and now probably asphyxiation, and you can instantly teleport to the carriers medbay."

    Yes. This man is a true engineer.
    +1

    Release on Workshop plz

    Add Grav-Death and Falling Debris Death?

    10/10 would install on dedi-server spawn zone.
     
  19. WereBottle Apprentice Engineer

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    Anyone else notice the flat vent model is the perfect shape for going over the airvent model in the same grid block?

    Maybe this means we'll be seeing blocks inside blocks soon.

    Maybe we can grow plants to if food's coming in and they could also replenish our air.
     
  20. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    2,119
    No it means nothing, the vent window has been in since the beginning, this is very likely coincidence.
     
  21. WereBottle Apprentice Engineer

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    398
    I know the vent window has been around a while, but this block isn't old and was probably designed allot more recently. So isn't it logical to assume they designed the model with the current vent window in mind (Like I just said)
     
  22. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    I'm not sure what they have planned, but the way the game is heading is very positive. I'm loving getting the ships airtight and can't wait for planets.
    Its all looking very good indeed, thanks KEEN.
     
  23. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    2,119
    yes, however that is different than saying that it means that compound blocks are coming soon, all it means is that they are preparing for when it is ready. Standard practice really.
     
  24. Oselotti Junior Engineer

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    I love this update. Now my ships interiors starts to look like a ship interior. I made a few tests with tanks and machineguns today. Sadly pressurised oxygen tank didn't exploded but I hope they will soon :) What happens in future I think oxygen opens many many new options and perhaps also some other gases later.

    edit. We had only solid materials before but now gas. Perhaps some craftable items would need oxygen or some other gas as a needed material.
    edit2. Actually ice contains oxygen and hydrogen so we need hydrogen tanks too. Perhaps not right now but later. Also hydrogen has many uses in real life chemistry and other uses. I hope this leads to some interesting things in future.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2015
  25. Morbophobie Apprentice Engineer

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    145
    @ DDP-158 - you reinvented the Pod express (eve). But seriously, if you have no problem with those morbid practices, the clone bay could even recycle your body for the next time you want to change the location. You see, I agree with the medbay requiring resources. I would say Ice (water) and just Carbon that can be found in asteroids. That's two components from which one is already in the game. Carbon could also be used for plants. Just clone a seed (at the medbay) and plant your 3D printed seed in a pot - that also explains why all the plants look oddly the same :D. Or you could 3D print food with it (do I want to eat something, or just kill myself and print a sated clone with the carbon instead? -> carbon use in any way).

    Basically make the Suit have to resupply from time to time (oxygen, water, food, energy). Since you need an oxygen generator anyway then, you might as well pressurize your base and save some time not resupplying all the time. You suit could resupply oxygen at an oxygen tank or do it automatically if you are in a pressurized area. So pressurizing an area where you are from time to time can save you time. That's like sitting in a pilot seat and recharging while piloting the ship anyway.
    Food and water you would need only once in a while in comparison to energy and oxygen.

    I would not nerf the suit besides giving it a storage that requires replenishment from time to time. It is already better to build a welding ship than doing it in a suit, so I don't see a need to. And I wouldn't do respawn timers - the resources needed for a new clone if you die somewhere else (not clone jumping - clone recycling) are already limitation enough - I think so at least. (I kind of like the idea of immortal humans not giving a s*** about their corpses - if it is not the last medbay:eek)
     
  26. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

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    361
    Ya I'm not a fan of nerfing the suit in some games it's all your really have. Nerfing it would cause to many problem I feel.

    But I am for reason to take it off, like if plants are put in, to eat and drink. Though if they do put in a need for food I hope it's just food not food and water. I see no need to make it that complex.

    I'd like to see them put in a helmet locker next update. That way I'm not building a ton a medbays just to put on a helmet. I can understand why it is the way it is now. Just saying later down the line. A little 1x1 locker just for the helmet that does not need power and maybe puts out a faint glow so you can find it in a pinch.
     
  27. JohnnyXII Trainee Engineer

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    86
    Oxygen could be added as parameter like energy. The space suit need energy and oxygen inside to work for astronauts (space engineers) and keep them in life, in this manner we will forced to put to carry on ship/base oxygen that we need. Moreover, when we take off the helmet (or space suit at all, in the future) we should not consume energy in an oxygen full room.
     
  28. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

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    139
    I know gravity and no atmosphere have nothing in common and not connected in the real world but it might be cool to see gravity disappear in no atmosphere. The majority of space films work off this principle so why not a pc game.
    So lets say you have your pressurised ship, gravity in the room you are in is working well and you can walk about. If a hole was to suddenly appear the depressurisation would cause gravity in that room to vanish resulting in everyone flying around uselessly. Make it far more interesting. The downside is if you consistently make working with no suit on more difficult no one is going to do it beyond Role playing. There has to be some nice big positives to working in no suit then working in one.
    I like the idea that everything speeds up when you dont have a suit on , welding, grinding, building...food if that ever comes.
     
  29. UrbanLegend Apprentice Engineer

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    With the new oxygen functionality, I feel like I prepping my house for winter by going around and sealing all the drafts.:D
     
  30. Maegil Senior Engineer

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    This is almost certainly planned, probably the leaks will work as hemispherical GGs drawing anything loose in the pressurized side.
     
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