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Petition to revert to old windows!!! (Space Engineers)

Discussion in 'General' started by terry369, Feb 20, 2016.

?

Revert to old windows?

  1. Yes revert them now!!!

    77.7%
  2. I don't care

    12.7%
  3. No I like scratches on my wondows

    4.5%
  4. No I like scratches on my windows

    5.0%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Lets get our voices heard and try to get Keen's attention so we can revert to the old none scratched windows. Rather than just having a bunch of "i support" we should discuss why we shouldn't have scratched glass (and if you want you can make a joke about it).

    I'll start. I just welded glass onto my ship and suddenly I see scratches everywhere. How does this make any sense? Next minute I walk into my station, see a window and I'm like "Who vandalized my station"!? Eventually after seeing that every window is scratch i'm like "OMG a bunch of angry monkey's are attacking". But in all serious Keen, please revert to the old windows, if not just for the visual preferance (or should I say, visuals which make sense) but also for the sake of the game's performance. Windows cause a lot of lag already, this is just going to cause even more lag.

    If your art team has nothing better to do, have them make new LCD screen designs, we have a danger sign, a cross and all that stuff but it doesn't hurt to have more plus surely it's easier to make than having to edit a model adding unwanted detail and all that.

    As for LCD screen designs, you can never have enough of them. Heck furniture would be nice too so our ships can finally look lived in. Plus you could add new weapon skins or something. Put simply if your art team have nothing better to do, have them do the examples I listed... or anything so long as it doesn't change any of the object designs becuase they're find as they are (except the current windows, please fix them Keen).

    Now if the art team are busy, why are they making these detailed windows? Shouldn't they be concentrating on something else?


    Edit: Together we have come up with a solution. Rather than reverting the windows, we make it so that the windows start off pristine when they are built but when they take damage they become scratched, kinda like what happends to the armor blocks. This way players can decide whether they want their ship to be a rust bucket or a luxary cruiser just by drilling their windows till they get damaged.

    100+ people say: MAKE IT HAPPEN KEENSWH!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 18
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  2. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    I rather like their scratches, they give a more industrial look to the thing. I'm not fond of the repeating pattern though. with window beside window it looks rather odd.
    It is especially notifiable on the sliding doors, which each of the tiny panes of glass have identical scratches but inverted :p
    The dirty smudging is also a bit excessive and needs to be dialed back a bit, but honestly, I think this is a better direction than perfectly pristine plates of glass installed in ships that are busting up asteroids, hauling tones of ore about and sitting in space to be battered and beaten by all the lose chunks of rock they perpetually stir up.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    So if you were to build a ship, once you've welded it, you would grab a rock and rub it against the glass over and over? Fair enough but if they do have scratches then at least make it show only as the glass gets damaged. It's even worse with stations though, take a look at your windows at home and see how many scratches you can see. I don't see any. Regardless I think if they're gonna do it, make it so that it shows only when the glass gets damaged or something because it's stupid when you've just welded a ship and then BAM the windows are scratched already...
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    I'd prefer reintroduction of the unscratched, untinted orignal DX11 windows as an option; they gotta have those laying around somewhere, just let us choose. The G-menu is cluttered as fuck already, it's not like they would make things that much worse.
    In this poll i'm going with door number one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 15
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    Oh please. A ship is only built once, and once built it is subject to wear and tear which makes roughed up glass more consistent with the expected aesthetic.
    If this was a discussion about whether or not windows should have damage states I'd agree with you, however it isn't, so if I were to represent your argument the way you represent mine, I'd be arguing that you are expecting glass to somehow endue bullets, crashes and explosions and come out in the pristine condition it was originally assembled in (from multiple sheets using only a welder to merge them into a single large sheet without seams somehow).
    If we look at this in terms of what is consistent with how ships are used, they are going to be scuffed up and damaged because they aren't luxury vehicles made to impress, they are practical affairs assembled and maintained by the people that use them :p
    Heck, my entire ship should probably be held together with spit, polish and neon pink duck tape and the odd 'vote green' bumper sticker... which would actually go really nicely with the massive solar arrays I typically build ^.^
    Neither of us thinks the current glass is perfect, I just think what it is now is closer to what it should be than what it was before.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,744
    It should be noted that this change is one Marek requested... he brings it up in the very first "Marek plays" livestream.

    I think it might go to far. It would be cool if the scratches were an early damaged state, but that's not the case. Not that they should be pristine, but the originals were far better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    I voted wondows because I like wondrous windows.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    You know, if they are going to do more work on the windows textures they should definitely put the effort into making the glass tintable!!!!
    I would love some rose colored windows ^.^
    It would give a nice bright outlook on the world as you watch gatt turrets mow down those cute little six legged monstrosities.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. BlackUmbrellas

    BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Petitions likes this are crass, annoying, and almost never actually change things either way.

    Keen will eventually settle on a glass texture that works. Get over yourself.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 12
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    Indeed. I don't think it helps that the very poll itself is so muddled.
    To do a proper poll you need a 'For' and 'Against' option, but in this pole there is a 'For', 'I like' and 'I don't care' option...
    The question is, if someone doesn't like the current windows but doesn't want the old ones either would be be picking 'I don't care'?
    And if you look at the options as they stand, then the only option in favor of a role back is the 'Yes, revert them now', which would put all the others against it meaning 'I don't care' is effectively now a vote against the role back. :D
    The only alternative is to throw away that set of data which basically means you collected it for nothing. If people don't care, they don't vote. If you do a pole, you never collect data you don't intend to use.
    This could have done with some planning to make it a more effective poll.

    Edit: Oups. I phrased the above poorly. A proper poll has 'For' and 'Not For' options. Not 'For' and 'Against'. There is an important difference between not being in favor of something and being opposed to it.
    To find out if there is popular support for a position you always poll in favor, and not in favor, not in favor and opposed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  11. WhiteWeasel

    WhiteWeasel Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    I'd rather have the old windows back with the scratched up and dirty ones as their damage effect when they are damaged below the red line.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  12. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    He added the I don't care option because yes no polls are against the rules. It's a common trick to get around that rule.

    Wondows.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    Really? but that means that a valid position poll is impossible.
    That seems like a silly rule to me, but I'd have to know the reasoning behind it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Zeh Don

    Zeh Don Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    I think that, instead of getting rid of the new windows, the new textures should be added as a variation, and the old textures brought back as the default.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  15. frannic

    frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    316
    What i don't get is, if ksh is such a community driven company (like Thomas told us in the interview with w4stedspace) why don't they ask us?
    "Do windows need a makeover, and if so, what should be changed?"

    But now artists spend time on this and a lot of people don't like it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,460
    I don't use the stock windows. So voted, don't care. :stare:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Have you ever had your car repaired? This is called "Space Engineers" for a reason. We are specialized at not only constructing things but also repairing things. Heck you could even just replace the glass. The point I'm making is that when you add glass to your brand new ship, it looks stupid because it is instantly scratched for no reason. I just built that window... why is it already scratched. Plus who's to say that we won't have "Luxury" space vehicles in the future, we already have luxury cars so it should be possible. Don't just apply logic to sci-fi tropes and look at the bigger picture, not every ship is an industrial/military one, they're just the ones we see in movies and read about in books because "Action". I'm pretty sure if space ships ever become a thing, there will be collectors out there looking for luxury ones such as moguls. Otherwise why are people collecting old cars and why do people buy a Lamborghini and leave it in their garage?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    You will if the update screws over your modded worlds like it did mine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    He probably would have said that if they did.
     
  20. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    I'm referring to the massive update that screwed over every modded world. When I loaded it up, my station was gone, all the hard work, gone. I'm just giving him a warning so he doesn't suffer the fame fate as I did.
     
  21. DuneD

    DuneD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    948
    Its like Marek, came to our ships with a car key, and have some fun. For real, I've seen some stupid changes made lately, but this one really nails it in one of the stupidest things I've seen in an update. I really wonder what the art guy who designed that was thinking about.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Nah, the stupidest update was Hydrogen. They give us yet another resource to manage only to make Hydrogen bottles not work at launch (still don't know if they fixed that lol) and they made hydrogen tanks so huge that building a hydrogen powered ship is a nightmare. I mean, why do we HAVE to use hydrogen to power our jet packs even IN SPACE!? Plus you need ice to make hydrogen so if you're not in an oxygen world, you're screwed (well at least you were in the update). Then again, the ladder removal update was pretty bad too "Attention all Space Engineers players, we're removing one of the most convenient components of transportation in the game because they were buggy and we cannot be bothered to fix it, please understand".

    Silly thing is, there is already a mod for working ladders now LOL.

    I'm pretty sure Keen SWH are talented guys and all but man they can be absolutely terrible at decision making and prioritizing updates, I believe there's no structure to the updates at all and if there is, it needs rearranging into a better structure.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  23. frannic

    frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    316
    I know.......scratches..:)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    Because we are a bipolar community and nothing would be accomplished. Take the above post as an example with the hydrogen hate. He doesn't like it and that's his opinion. However, many are fine with it and enjoy the added challenge. Every thread posted with 'should this be implemented?' Would become threadnaught flame wars with rl examples being thrown in, other game examples, captioned pictures with bad humor, and insults. If you think there's are sides now, those threads would create war.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Shabazza

    Shabazza Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    689
    It seems realistic to me that windows can get scratches in space from micro-metheorites or dust ect.
    But they should be undamaged when new. Having some purely optical wear after some space miles would somehow be cool.
    But it should be toggleable either way. Not eveyone would like to clean his mother ships 3000 windows every 1000 space miles. :D

    So I'm for reverting them for now and I'm also for making them see-thru from both sides equally. But that's another story...
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 3
  26. frannic

    frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    316
    I get that. And you're problably right.
    But they already changed the windows once.(few patches ago) Got feedback, changed them again.
    They were fine.
    Nobody was complaining.
    Then they change them again, and at that point it would be wiser (i think) to ask the community if the windows should be changed again.
    The overall feeling was that people just want to see through clear glass.
    And maybe see some damage on them when they are actually damaged.
     
  27. terry369

    terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Hence the reason why I made this poll. The poll says it all really.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  28. Loues S. Cat

    Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    But what you are asking for is the very same!
    You want them to go back to being perfect all the time :p
    It is wonderful the way you can so oversimplify then criticize me for doing the same :woot:
    I have already said I support the idea of damage states, but that isn't what you are asking for here, so please don't pretend it is.
    You're asking that the windows go back to being perfect. I am saying it makes more sense for them to be scratched up. that is the argument.
    If you are using the game to make pretty ships, you'll be using mods regardless.
    If you are playing survival you're going to be making resource collection ships, miners and the like.
    The idea that a ship that spends all it's time effectively sitting in a quarry with loose rocks the size of your head occasionally bouncing off those windows rather supports the idea that the windows should be roughed up rather than forever new.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,460
    Being this far out from the start, I can't use the stock windows anyway, bug out completely. So if an update messes the mod windows up, I'll be putting a solid wall in and steering from the third person view, which would not be good. That or a camera view using the new camera to screen mod.

    Till then though.. I still don't care. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Sflot

    Sflot Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    27
    So what, the glass is a little different, just leave a comment and move on. The devs will notice, and change the glass whenever they feel like doing so. A "petition" will NOT help at all, we don't want the devs to feel forced to chance the glass as soon as possible and give other things a lower priority as a result.

    Don't tell the devs what they could and should work on, leave that sh*t in the suggestions. The art team always has something better to do, at least something better than noticing this thread.

    The glass won't stay like this forever, we're not even past Alpha stag. Besides, the game hasn't become unplayable, has it?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 4
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.