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Petition to revert to old windows!!! (Space Engineers)

Discussion in 'General' started by terry369, Feb 20, 2016.

?

Revert to old windows?

  1. Yes revert them now!!!

    77.7%
  2. I don't care

    12.7%
  3. No I like scratches on my wondows

    4.5%
  4. No I like scratches on my windows

    5.0%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Seriously though, this seems like the best solution. Options in videogames are important, the more the better. If it means repairing windows to remove the scratches, I'm all for it. Always improve before you remove... that's my philosophy. Compromise can go a long way and satisfy a lot of people.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    I just played for the first time since the windows were made to be all scratchy, and I must say I just hate it. I wouldn't have noticed if not for starting from scratch on a lander, but they just look bad. You would think in the year 2077 we could have windows (or wondows) that don't come out of the assembler looking like you hooked them up to a rover and dragged them across an asteroid.

    Voted to revert. Though I wouldn't be opposed to toning the scratch and wear effect down to like 10% of what it is now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    But this entire thread is based on you wanting to remove the new windows......
     
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  4. terry369 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    i said revert to the OLD windows which they REMOVED.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    Well they are making arguments like (Paraphrasing:) 'the windows in your house aren't scratched therefore windows on a space ship shouldn't be either'
    and (Paraphrasing:) 'I disagree with one thing you said therefore I wont address anything else you said regardless of how tangential or unrelated it is!'
    And they are happy to make an over simplified argument, but if you respond in kind they disregard it because it's over simplified!
    There is no point in arguing with them. they want what they want and there is no changing their mind.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    What makes it look horrid for me is the effect you get with a row of windows....all SCRATCHED THE SAME!

    Before, it was subtle, and you didn;t realy notice. Making it far more scratched makes it more obvious, and hard to ignore. Sure, windows in space will get hit by small particles of grit and debris and may well end up scratched....but you need a selection of randomly applied scratches, or say, a dozen textures with one picked at random.

    Might make the effect look a bit less fake, and easier to live with
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Mr Engineer Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    467
    Okay. How about both windows? I can see where scratchy windows would look good for effect but I like to be able to see outside. I was placing windows yesterday and I had no idea if I was placing it right. I could tell before what was inside and what was outside but now, I'm not sure. A window inside a ship wouldn't be scratched going logically about things. How about scratchy windows for planet bases? I imagine they'd work on the Martian Planet (Dust storms and all). Could scratched windows be a damaged state? If a window gets damaged it shows scratches, after all guns show electricity when damaged.
     
  8. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    416
    Read everyones post before replying, and all I can say is I can't believe how badly this topic devolved on page 2.

    Anyway my $0.02 USD how ever little thats worth is that I greatly dislike the new texture on windows as not only visually ugly, but that they were asked to waste their time with this.

    Instead of trying to tell them to take back a not universally accepted change to the game, we could look to find ways to improve it.

    -Lighten the scratchs and other effects.
    -Reduce the textures visibility range, no scratches apparent over say 1-3 meters away.
    -Make the scrach texture larger than the block and use it in sections in the same way armor blocks do to blend them instead or repeating them.

    Performance wise I just accept that this game is not finshed, it is not being programed with todays current hardware($500-$1000) as the common denominator, and we, all of us, are working way outside the scope of what they thought we would be building in the game size wise.

    I wont vote in this poll as the option I would pick is not present. The choices as they are, were written loaded.

    Edit: punctuation to ease reading.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Nacon Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    591
    No, I am not a moderator, but you have brought up a very good point here which brings me a question to ask.

    Are you moderator also? (This doesn't make sense now, doesn't it? Maybe I should refine this question a little more.) Are you a large shareholder investor of Keen Software House?

    I ask you this because I don't see how it's any different from what you are doing right now. You ARE trying to dictate to the developers what is acceptable on their game by starting unnecessary petition poll with not only one exclamation point but three, as if you're screaming at the top of your lungs in pure insanity rage.

    I only asked you to try to be little better next time. I guess you wanted to be rude. Fine, fair enough, your call. I'm pretty sure Keen won't see you in better lights either.
    Yes, we can have our opinion... but demanding is another thing. You're actually making a big deal over a single minor texture change.
    You're almost bad as a child who overreacts to any setbacks parents make without their permission, like buying a night-light that doesn't lights up in their favorite color.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
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  10. Sflot Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    27
    There's just no arguing with you.

    Mate, you're on the internet, if sh*t and f*ck (including censor) is inflammatory language to you and worth complaining about, then I suggest you go and take your complaints to the Roblox forums with the rest of the 11-year-olds instead. Why does the fact that the top option is winning justify the fact that you made the poll in the first place, along with the witty comments? Like I said once more, I agree that the glass should be changed, but does that mean that your senseless complaining is suddenly correct in any way? I have been "there" since the release too, but I have yet to use it as an argument. For me the game has only gotten more bearable to play. I sincerely want to know what you're trying to achieve here, because everyone that questions the need for this thread to exist gets a nice big 'f*ck off' from you.

    Your intentions are wrong and your poll is incorrectly formulated as well. Your unnecesary poll should go something like this:

    Harass the devs into changing the windows as soon as possible?
    -Yes, be loud and obnoxious about how we don't like the current window texture!
    -I don't really care about the windows, I'd rather have you not bother the devs, besides, I think they already know about this issue.
    -No I like scratches on my playerbase.
    -No I like scratches on my ployerbase.

    About that world of yours, you're basically implying that your world is so incredibly full of sh*t that my pc won't run it, and yet you're blaming a f*cking texture for it? Do you think I just stare at the sky in-game and get high FPS because of that? No, it's because I play this game with some f*cking moderation and care. Get some sensibility, will you?

    You're lucky that I'm writing my foul words with asterisks in them, I'm merely doing this in case it's not taken lightly by the mods, you never know. Imagine your eyes being fully exposed to "Fucking Shit" or some shit like that, fucking hell man.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
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  11. Echillion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,334
    I would prefer the one sided tinted windows or the DX11 originals we had or at worse the both side see through ones we had before the scratched ones. for example - We are gathered here today to launch our latest starship the destiny, who didn't clean the beeping windows? fire him! If you want the grunge look get a mod!

    As to those who say we shouldn't be petitioning for something we want changed or implemented those with short memories should remember where planets came from? A 20+ page thread of nagging for it! and that's all I'm going say as I'm not going to get involved with puerile arguments with teens or those that haven't grown up? Besides this change was purely on Mareks say so only No-one asked for it at all to my recollection?

    Btw since Keen have beeped up custom skyboxes and I have to deal with the default blackness of space having this crap on the windows just makes piloting and finding roids even harder for those of us that don't have 20:20 vision!
     
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  12. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Like I've said before, 90% of the visibility issue appears to be coming from something weird with how the windows interact with light sources.

    In the right conditions, the scratches are hardly visible and you can see through the rest of the window crystal-clear. In most cases, something weird is happening and the whole window is obstructed by an almost opaque, low-resolution "fuzz". That's probably not intentional.

    I'd be fine with scratched windows personally, although probably more so if it was a touch more subtle.

    (If we're gonna talk about a custom damage state, scratches aren't nearly enough; I want full-on spiderweb fractures, haha)

    Probably a more widely-accepted alternative to solve the same issue (that is to say, windows being too perfectly transparent to the point you can't readily identify that one is there) would be to put some small decals. Like, very thin lines or stripes of paint running across the window? Or, I don't know, reinforced mesh inside them? A reflective sheen?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    If it ultimately boils down to a choice between what we have now, and what we had, then I'd go for what we had; currently, it looks like somebody sneezed balsamic vinaigrette all over the windows. :stare: However, I'm perfectly fine with putting something on the windows to make them look spiffier; my only real feedback for the developers is that they're going to get getting a lot of complaints if whatever window texture they settle on is one that interferes with the functionality of the windows, or is just plain distracting for many of the players. As I said before, most of us are looking through the windows, and Marek is looking at the windows; both are valid concerns, and hopefully both will be addressed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,975
    Eh, not really a fan, they'd just fuck that up as bad as the camera screen D:
    I do believe that a proper frame would help wonders with that particular "issue" (has anyone but Marek actually ever walked into an SE window?). For most applications, framed versions of the glass we have would suffice, and for the once where they don't - well, say you build a huge-ass window front and ceiling for your Bridge; you probably don't want that obstructed either way. For stuff like crew quarters that'd work beautifully, i think. They could take the old door frame, remove the door-part and -feature, modify it for the other window sizes and add the window inside. Would be a bit involved for the non-flat-window variants but it'd be a start. I like this idea. Yes. Do that, Keen. I expect delivery by Thursday.
     
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  15. Sflot Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    27
    The change I mean is subtle, and it pretty much only includes the unintentional problems such as the "fuzz", indeed.

    I do like the texture, but I wouldn't mind if they toned the scratching down a bit and found a way to make it slightly less repetitive. In my builds this is not really a problem, I use glass moderately, no over the top sci-fi designs. Honestly I'm not to worried what the devs will do with the glass, I'm sure they'll nail it.
     
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  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    I'm thinking something along the lines of [​IMG]

    Like, thin lines or a stripe along one side. Preferably combined with a nice tint (not a one-way reflective one, an overall tint to the window's transparency) and maybe some reflection so if you look at the window from an angle you can tell its reflecting light.
     
  17. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,975
    Aaaaaah, i get it, i thought you meant something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, i could happily live with a tasteful paintjob around the edges as long as i can actually look through the rest.
     
  18. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Safety mesh like that is another option, yeah. Probably something that'd vanish with further LoDs, but if Keen really wants a way to show that windows are solid in the same manner as scummy dirt and scratches, some mesh inside the window would work without attracting the "ugh, why is my fresh window dirty?" argument.

    My preference is tinting and some manner of simple decal, but it bears mentioning other options.
     
  19. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    Right, you want the new windows gone and the old windows back, and backe it up with a yes/no poll. In fact you made it clear by page 2 that your money says they should do this immediately. This philosophy came out of nowhere.

    I've made a much more refined poll that allows for a wider array of options other than old or new windows which can be viewed by clicking on this shameless plug:
    http://forum.keenswh.com/threads/a-more-extensive-window-poll.7380273/#post-1286942743

    So far it looks to me like many of yes's in this threads poll would much prefer an alternate option.
     
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  20. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,975
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. craigtut Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    5
    Glad to see this already up. Keen needs to listen to the community on this one. You can't even see out the windows of ships to fly them anymore! Its absurd. They were perfectly fine before
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  22. Lord Wraith Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    105
    do i like the new glass look, simple answer NO, would i like to see it returned back to the clean glass look YES, why, simple to me glass should look clean in space, in space although there is dirt because of the enviro, dirt does not stick to the glass that easy, with the deep scratches that are in the glass (all glass even the sliding doors) it looks awful, as soon as i saw it i knew in my heart it was wrong, there is your nice clean looking ship with a whole load of scratched and dirty glass (must be second, no, third hand glass) sorry but it completely spoils the look of any ship now as well as the inside of a ship
    [​IMG]

    as you can see from the pic above, this i think gives me my case in point, awful glass, sorry devs,-10 for this one
     
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  23. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Again because people obviously don't read before they mash post, why not just release all the windows and let the player choose?

    Mouse wheel to select which one like in Medieval Engineers and literally everyone is happy.

    (Except the OP, he cried about having to change all the windows in a world, what a ridiculous reason not to give everyone else the choice they want).
     
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  24. frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    315
    It just wasn't suppose to be a priority in my mind.
    I think that maybe bothers me most.
    The windows were fine until marek made it a priority to change them.
    Of course we are not the people that should and can tell in wich order the devs have to work, but the obvious things that cost little to no time are still not done.
    For example the blurry striped camera view.
    It would be very easy to change that and you would make a lot of people very happy.
    And that is one of those things people DO complain about.
    I am going to stop rambling now because it is getting me nowhere.
    I just had to put it out there.:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    I have always thought that camera should be pretty clear in the space age. Thankfully there is a mod for that. In vanilla, you are restricted to the dev's vision for the game. To them, that is what feels immersive. I would like to see clear camera screens as well, but I would not be surprised if Marek insisted that the camera lens needs to look scratched and dingy as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Wizlawz Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,028
    / signed / revert

    well at least until they can get "wear and tear / aging over time" like EVE does or similar.....but wait.... was it not said at one point " we do not look at another game and say yeah we want that in our game, absolutely not"....or something like that.
     
  27. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    When did eve get aging wear n tear?








    When did eve let us look out windows?
     
  28. Marneus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    Do you see any scratches?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Loues S. Cat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143

    And if I considered it worth responding to this ridiculously flawed reasoning I'd pull up pictures of quarry vehicles and shot up aircraft that had actually been in use in a war or in industrual applications for prolonged periods and declare 'look at all those scratches and damage! obviously that is how everything should look!'
    The idea that you can point to one thing and say "look! no scratch" does not present an argument for there should never be any scratches. If it was, then the existence of the same type of object with scratches could just as easily justify there always being scratches!
    I mean please try to think about the argument before declaring 'I ain't seen it, therefore it ain't right!'
     
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  30. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    The bold is where your argument falls apart. A newly finished window should not have scratches. You would also think bulletproof glass (which is what the component is called in the assembler) would be scratch resistant, to a degree at least.

    I do think windows that get hit by debris or bullets should have scratches or cracks, but it doesn't seem reasonable to me to see a freshly placed and finished piece of glass have damage on it that would appear to be from long-term use in a debris-rich area.
     
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