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Player customization and positive press.

Discussion in 'General' started by brightshield, Jan 13, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. brightshield Trainee Engineer

    I would ask that you please make some alpha trailers that showcase player characters who are non-male and non-white.
    One thing I liked about space engineers, was that the spacesuit let you have a faceless, gender-less engineer run around. In this game, it is a lot easier to personify and identify with your engineer.
    I only ask this, because I think that showing this kind of acceptance and diversity would only serve to improve public perception of your brand, showcase a spirit of forward thinking and progressiveness, and safeguard against future criticism.

    The sooner the better.

    I'm not saying that you should have a character customization screen with sliders and buttons, but two different player models, with 3-5 skin textures, both sexes wearing the exact same clothes and with the exact same movement rigging.
    Minimal effort, but with a huge impact on the accessibility and reception of your game.
    *TRUST ME*
  2. waterlimon Senior Engineer

    But only white males existed in the 500-1500 in europe, right?

    I wonder if were gonna have a realism crowd with medieval engineers too...
  3. Rantage Trainee Engineer

    +1 to this, even though as a bearded white male I apparently have the ideal player model in-game. ;)

    As Medieval Engineers does not appear to be a cultural simulator or an attempt to recreate a specific historical setting other than something European-ish in the 5th to 15th Centuries, I don't see how the inclusion of a wider variety of player models could be objectionable.

    Another thing to consider: by focusing on realistic, physics-based engineering rather than combat, ME could make some serious headway in established and emerging STEM programs. Allowing kids to have player models that at least look something like themselves can be a big plus.

    Perhaps having a Skyrim-level character editor would be overkill, and obviously player model variation takes a back seat to game stability and core functionality. But I think that tasking a modeler and artist with at least creating a female model and a couple of different skin textures now could be quite advantageous.
  4. Ash87 Senior Engineer


    You are damn right we are.
  5. Bobylein Apprentice Engineer

    Yep I agree, also Marek said they try to keep their games pretty generic, so it doesn't need to be Europe only themed.
    But please don't create a female character ala Lara Croft ;)
  6. Martinineter Senior Engineer

    Those ages were the golden ages for the physics inquisition, it's funny how you didn't expect us to be there.
    It might be because....

    Nobody expects the physics inquisition!

    No go and be faithfull to Newton
  7. Ash87 Senior Engineer

    I was going to say that it should be a subsidiary of the Physics inqusition, like... maybe the Librarians of Antiquity.
  8. Martinineter Senior Engineer

    But, but, I like the name.... The true inquisition was also active in the middle ages, so why not during Medieval Engineers?
  9. paswert Junior Engineer

    I donnæ care as long as I get to go swishy-swishy slashy-slashy stabby-stabby with a zweihander.

    On a more serious note, they were going for generic, so why not just make the most generic character possible for a game; The grizzled white male.
  10. Textor Junior Engineer

    Disciples of Pythagoras?
  11. paswert Junior Engineer

    Knights of Newton? Guardians of Galileo? Templars of Torsion? Men of Mass? Condottieri of the Counterweight? Serjeants of the Siege?
  12. Wintersend Senior Engineer

    Well, all I can say on the topic of this branch of the Physics Inquisition is that they will have another member once this game is released.
  13. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

    That is a upcoming feature for their fourth game from keen software house....


    Go back to your west coast ya damn hippy
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2015
  14. Textor Junior Engineer


    It's "California Liberal Engineers & Associates" thank you.


    I totally agree. I am a white male, and I have absolutely no issues with having diversity in the game. Let's see some females and non-whites in the game and its promotional materials :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2015
  15. waterlimon Senior Engineer

    Procedural faces plz
  16. TheDeinonychus Trainee Engineer

    Ok, first, I want to get this out of the way. I love seeing more customization, including on character models. It would be nice to see a few more choices. A few facial feathres (beard, no beard. Stash, no stash), some skin tones. And yes, even a male/female toggle would be nice.

    But having said that, if someone (male or female) decide they just won't play a game because it lacks a female player model, I can honestly say that nothing of value was lost. In all complete, brutal honesty, if the deciding factor for you as to whether or not you play a game, is if the game has a racial and gender diversity in it's base game models that's up to your standards, then you're probably not someone the gaming community wants mucking about in their culture.

    Adding in extra player models to satisfy people who just have to have as many options as possible isn't a high priority for any game. Especially considering the game has just been announced! Of course we're not going to see much beyond the stock default. Honestly, the amount that Keen has shown us this early is astounding already. A lot of developers, especially indie developers, would have had half of the game still in place-holders on first announce. Right now we should be impressed that the player model is already colorable. Instead we've got people complaining that there's no girls in their game. Or there's no blacks, or Hispanics, or whatever. Sigh.

    Sorry if this all sounds a bit too bitchy, but I've been hearing a lot of stuff about gender and cultural diversity in games lately. And it just seems sad that we've gotten to a point where our first concern with a new game isn't if it'll have complete features, or if it'll be properly optimized on release. It's if individuals can feel like the developers are catering to them by including a player model that looks as close as possible to how they look.

    Even with Space Engineers, things are still in development. Keen has bigger issues to deal with on both games right now. If they decide to include multiple player models, or even a customization option, then that's good. But it's not going to be something we'll be likely to see till far down the development road. And if they don't add that to either game, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I'll still play the games because they have many many more important merits besides gender or racial diversity.

    And besides, both games have (or will have) modding support. And you can already find alternate player models for Space Engineers. I would be shocked if modders didn't make ones for Medieval Engineers as well. It makes far more sense from a development position to focus their efforts elsewhere and let the modding community deal with adding in something that's being requested by only a very small (and let's face it, most of the gaming community won't care about it) portion of the player base, rather than direct development time and effort towards a feature that doesn't really add anything to the core game experience.
  17. Geneticus Senior Engineer

    They'd all be doughnut shaped then....
  18. Fus Apprentice Engineer

    I smell Common Purpose.

    Why put *TRUST ME* at the end of the OP ?
  19. Conradian Moderator

    This seems pointless. Honestly, there is nothing to be gained by doing it.
    As already said, if someone's deciding factor on getting this game is whether or not they can be a strong independent black woman who don't need no man, then I'm much happier that they don't play this game.
    In fact, why not just give the player a helmet... BOOM then you can believe they're whoever you want underneath, just like SE.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2015
  20. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

    Sure lets go with a dumb liberal, politically correct agenda to just force diversity into every nook and cranny as if everyone is a bigot if they don't constantly make the effort to do so in concert with the rest of the world. We're all people ok, get over the superficial crap. Like it's been said, the game is moddable, if people really want those different customizations they'll be there. The devs have more important things on their priority list.
  21. Percy Trainee Engineer

    Here is the thing, maybe in one or two years of weekly updates, character customization becomes a good idea. But now, in the early stages, in this general and non-specific medieval engineering game, what do you prefer? Customize your character and have 20 blocks to play with? Or have one type of character and have 100 blocks to play with?

    At the end of the day, at this point and the next few points in development for this game, character appearence is exceptionally not a goal or even an aftertought. I enjoy the cosutme editing at any time in Space Engineers, and I think Medieval Engineers shouldn't have a character customizer. I would even go as far as to propose that characters be cloacked, or wear a helmet, or even a venetian mask, that hides the skin of their face, thus leaving their actual appearence to our imagination.

    I say this because, sure along the line I would also like to customize my character further, but for the next year or so, I just want all their focus on stuff I can do in game, not on how I look. Especially I do not want a simple, bare bones character customizer just to appease people of a certain viewpoint. Whey they do characte customizer, I want a serious one, with a lot of variation, that won't make me look like a generic *insert race here* just for the sake of diversity. But as Phoenix said, this should be better left for the modding community honestly.
  22. webik150 Trainee Engineer

    Because he's and Engineer...
  23. GalaxyMeridian Apprentice Engineer

    Typically, games have placeholder characters during early development.
    Should this stop a person from playing, then, that's their decision.

    If I play an early access game about Japanese medieval construction, then I just have to accept to play as a Japanese character.
    Would this stop me from playing a good game? Certainly not. Why would it be so horrible to play as an asian, or caucasian? I don't see the issue.

    Space Engineers already have the ability for modding a character's skin and some modders have created custom characters.
    Since Medieval Engineers share the VRAGE 2 engine, it won't be long before the modders decides to mod the player characters in ME.
    As for Keen, I would expect them to wait with the lower priority aspects until the game is at a later stage.

    As for adding a female character, it should be higher prioritized than adding more types of male characters.
    Once the female character is in place, it could be modded for other looks.

    Why isn't there any character with my type of beard yet?
    The answer is priority and prioritization is an integral part of game development.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2015
  24. Lunavi Trainee Engineer

    Yeah, I get pretty sick of the "requirement" people seem to have for games now that they contain "non-white, non-male"(nwnm) playables off the bat. If its going to be such a big deal, I'd just as soon have them put in a Godzilla player model and that is all we get.

    I do not personally fit the nwnm model, but it doesn't bother me when the model is so NOT important as it is in this game. While character customization can be fun, I'd rather they spend their time on features that are actually important to gameplay.
  25. thrif_ash Trainee Engineer

    Seems like something the modding community could pick up.
  26. brightshield Trainee Engineer

    So, I said "trust me", because I am a game developer, but then again, who isn't these days?
    I never said diversifying the game was a requisite, and I never said they would lose players because of it.

    I was not stating that it was morally obligatory in anyway, just praise worthy. I think making the game more accessible for everyone is always a good thing, and it generally counts towards "being nice" towards others.

    The system I proposed was a really quick fix, seeing as they already have the code-base for character model swaps. There is just a huge amount of scrutiny placed upon creative games like space engineers. Toys like Lego have been criticized for not being inclusive enough to girls, and I felt like this awesome game would get even more awesome press if it sidestepped that accusation as soon as possible.

    it would be seen as a gesture of inclusivity and would be very very well received.

    You can see this as a liberal attack if you want, or it could just be a guy who wants the best for the young ladies in his life.
  27. Ash87 Senior Engineer

    I mean we're all people, yes: So why is it a liberal agenda that some people want to play as something that isn't the default character model.

    Lets pretend this is another game and the character model is an Imp, and someone wants to play as a Goblin. It's just a matter of customization. It's not really silly, and anything you read into it that is about some political nonsense, is entirely on you. Some people would just prefer to look at something more in line with what They want to project onto.

    And as to: "Oh it's difficult and the devs shouldn't spend time on it"... I mean if you want to assume that everything we are getting is great and wonderful that is fine. I doubt you can say you are 100% satisfied with everything that is in SE. So shouldn't there have been pieces of that game, that weren't or were worked on over other things? This is no different.

    If you don't like it, that is fine, but to say it shouldn't exist because of your personal political feels or lack thereof doesn't make a ton of sense given that this is a discussion about game features.

    As a game feature it helps player project onto their character more. It doesn't Hurt anything in the game. It doesn't effect balance. It doesn't detract resources from the game in any way, that is more significant than misplaced priorities (MP in Space Engineers, anyone?).
  28. WereBottle Apprentice Engineer

    Stop phrasing everything as a political gesture!

    Your idea is just plain daft at this point in development. Also how niave are you that you think this game will gather any extra attention because the developers wasted time with character customization rather than alpha development? This isn't the 90's.

    oh and....

    Pretty sure those women can speak for themselves, don't use them as your shield. Also considering you're supposed to be trying to push inclusivity that was pretty damn patronizing towards women.
  29. Belthize Apprentice Engineer

    1) How many of these threads do we need, particularly created by the same person.

    2) Since this is a medieval period game there can be an actual Spanish Inquisition.
  30. Martinineter Senior Engineer

    Nobody expects the spanish inquisition! (or physics inquisition)
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