Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Please address Ore Detectors next

Discussion in 'General' started by rottielover, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. rottielover Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    481
    Loving the new update. I've finally returned to SE after a multi-year absence. What a difference, I'm enjoying myself again! Picked up both DLC's now and I'm really liking the Decorative blocks (now how about animated blocks :) )

    Anyway the build queue system has been sorely needed for a long long time.

    I do hope that Devs will address Ore Detectors next, especially now that asteroids have a lot more diversity, and some are more like small clusters. Now that some refactoring and performance enhancements are in the silly 50m range on the small ore detector needs to get bumped up. Personally I feel like small should get up to 150m and Large up to 400m but that's just me.

    Ideally, I would like to see a more "futuristic" system for ore detection be put in place with some animation and art going into it. When I pull up to an asteroid I want to see a "scan" and be able to see a % of my scan that's complete on one of my cockpit monitors. The longer the range of the detector the longer it takes to scan the volume and the % complete takes longer... something like that...

    After that Sensors, then the in-game communications system, would love to see a setting on servers that allow chat to be linked to the comm network, but it needs to get re-done also. Make it more radio like so that we get longer distances, direction finding, something to make it interesting.

    What are your thoughts?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    You've been away so you may not be aware of what everyone was yelling about wanting to get fixed and when. Keen instituted a new bug report/suggestion site that allowed us to put our peeves on a list and other people could vote them up or down. Keen would then at least look at what floated to the top. I can attest that when something gets a lot of votes and Keen acknowledges that they can do something, they usually do.

    I think as far as the vanilla game goes, ore detector ranges are right in that spot where finding ore is challenging but not impossible. A hand drill will work, but what you really want is something mounted on a small or large grid. If the ranges are not sufficient for the way a person plays, there are plenty of mods available. When you're done playing "I crashed on a planet and can't get up", you're pretty much done playing the vanilla game. Since you've been gone players have clearly signaled to Keen that they want the vanilla "survival" game to be difficult, so Keen put ore resources on planets a bit deeper and spread them out. In space they're just spread widely. Certain ores are really hard to come by. In anticipation of the hordes of angry mobs this move would have generated, Keen made it so that refineries can get trace elements of harder to find resources from stone.

    I had a mod that did what you suggested, namely scanning an area and producing a 3D map of where the ore was and which ones. It was actually several scripts that all had to be running together. Never got them to work but they definitely killed performance. I can imagine that is why it's not a vanilla feature.
     
  3. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,325
    Almost. They can be voted up. Allowing down-votes would just be asking for trouble, even though there are some suggestions that really, really deserve it ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. rottielover Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    481
    Really glad to hear that they are listening to the fans a bit more than they used to ;) I got fed up with things shortly after planets got released, prior to that I was one of the early adopters when it was first released on Steam, so I still remember fondly waiting for a week or two for the next block that was going to get released. I remember when the conveyors came out, fun times.

    The whole stone producing trace amounts of stuff thing was a popular mod theme, heck it bet it was probably one of the first big mods released. Designs back then usually included a lot of ejectors to get rid of stone because it was worthless.

    When they released the conveyor sorters there was rejoicing because now you could sort out the stone and miner designs almost always included "stone removal system"s
     
  5. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,428
    I agree. The ore detectors are problematic. However, they can't really increase their range much due to simply how they work, scanning voxels is very performance heavy. So how can they be improved?

    I suggest a secondary, active ping mode which is directional and has a cooldown. It can have longer range and act over time, but be slimmer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,497
    X-Ray vision! That will solve it all! :)
     
  7. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    I was watching the creator stream the creation of the original Azimuth Overclocked Ore Detector (in fact, it was me that talked him in to putting a company logo on it, thus turning it from just some ordinary mod into a Space Engineers Legend. Yes. That was Me. You're welcome). When he fired it up for the first time it had a five kilometer range. Pretty much all of space lit up with hits. The next day it was on the workshop and I gleefully downloaded it. When I turned it on I learned the true meaning of "drop in performance." I did not initially blame the performance drop on the Azimuth detector because the game performed so poorly overall on my machine. I found out through the forums that other people were having issues. I'll never forget that moment, though, when that detector showed everything within a 5 kilometer radius. I imagined approaching a cluster of asteroids, turning on the detector, and leisurely deciding the most efficient route based on my personal ore priority.

    Well, we clearly can't have that, so @Malware's idea is sounding pretty good. Something I can point at a far off asteroid and find out if it has that silicon I'm looking for?

    The VT (VerdanTech) Holo-Scan script is what I tried next. I described it earlier in the thread. It was @mojomann71's X-ray vision. I never got it to work, but it effectively shut off any detector other than hand drills. Needs work, I guess :)
     
  8. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,428
    Another alternative to my previous suggestion would be that this secondary active mode only gives you the general composition of the rock, so you at least _know_ that there's, say, uranium in there, but not exactly where leaving you to have to go up close and personal to actually find the ore like now - but at least this time you actually know it's there somewhere.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,497
    I was kind of kidding about the X-Ray vision, I didn't even know there was a mod out there similar to that... :)
     
  10. ShadedMJ Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    199
    Speaking of ore detectors and ore:

    I made a bug report a while ago but did not receive a good answer.... What does the range setting on the ore detector mean? It cannot be maximum range because setting it to 50m will still detect ore at 90m. Maximum range seems to be 2-3x the setting.

    If I'm in either creative or space master and I spawn in 1000kg of cobalt ore, I can bump it with my ship, but the engineer can jetpack through it. The spawned cobalt ore is also identified as cobalt ore with ore detector off and hand drill not used.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019 at 16:15
  11. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,428
    @ShadedMJ It is maximum range - but it detects in a box (world axis aligned I think) so the corners will be further away. Also, it may detect an ore voxel at the edge of that and yet show you a slightly offset position.
     
  12. ShadedMJ Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    199
    Thanks for the update, but the system as is gives the appearance of being broken. The box is likely world aligned, because it definitely isn't engineer aligned, but engineer aligned is all we have to go with.
     
  13. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,428
    Sure, it probably "gives the appearance" of being broken - but it's not. When it comes to the ore detector, performance is the key. If it shows as a little off - so be it. That's their point of view.
     
  14. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,187
    I'm pragmatic about the entire issue. If I can use an ore detector or my hand drill to locate ore, then everything's good for me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    Not past tense. The mod (script) still exists. I thought I linked it in my last post, but I was using my tablet in a marginal signal area (anywhere in Alaska 15 minutes out of town :)).

    I'm not sure how the script works, but it can link the ore detectors of any owned grids that are running the script and use that data to create a 3D map. I knew the script was running because my performance tanked and none of my non-hand drill detectors would show me anything, but I never got a 3D display, probably because it takes a long time to make and I was also running a number of other performance hungry mods. For all I know it DOES work.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,497
    @Stardriver907 yeah it did make it sound like I was speaking past tense. I just am surprised I missed seeing it out there! :) Thanks for the info I may check it out just to see if I have the same issues you did. :)
     
  17. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    This https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1653943631 makes life better for me.
    While it doesn't do anything fancy like y'all are looking for, it also doesn't seem to tank performance.
    Just increases the ore detector max range x5.

    Maybe something like Elite Dangerous style prospector limpets would be viable for SE.
     
  18. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    I personally use the Prospector Ore Detector from this modpack by codecat that has, I believe, a 750 meter range. All I know is that it seems to find all the ore @Spaceman Spiff keeps missing.
     
  19. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,187
    How am I missing ore? Heck, I'm not the one complaining about ore detectors, gore inspectors, or whore selectors.
     
  20. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    Who couldn't find uranium on Earthlike's pole?

    Who found it without trying?

    If you need any more coordinates, let me know ;)
     
  21. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,187
    Why you punk kid!!!

    (Well, you got me there. I’ve never found uranium on any of the planets since the update. And it’s not for lack of trying...)
     
  22. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    349
    Don't feel bad @Spaceman Spiff I have the same bad luck with ore.

    While I wouldn't mind a better ranged ore detector I'm still able to work with what we have in-game. But kind of like what @Malware was saying I'd like a tool that I could build or dock to a asteroid and tell me what this one has on it, I don't need to know the location just know it there would make me happy ((on a side though note percentage of it would be nice as well)). Over the whole scan and fly and just hope it's not one inch outside the scan range.
     
  23. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,755
    As a side note, Nova did a show the other day about asteroids. The first part of the show was about what we can do about asteroids headed for Earth (it appears that there are more solutions than just kissing your ass goodbye). The second bit was about mining asteroids for profit. I won't go into any detail about what they said, but in the process they did verify my argument that jackhammers won't work in space (at least unless the jackhammer holder is firmly anchored to the stuff being jackhammered).

    It's nice to know that top scientists and engineers are just as smart as I am :woot: