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Private antennae

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Zenethian, Sep 11, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Zephram Apprentice Engineer

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    129
    Realism => Gameplay
    (this means "implies", but you can read it like "is greater or equal" too) :)
     
  2. Qwurty2.0 Trainee Engineer

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    Why not have signals encrypted by default?

    That means people can see a signal's source but not what it represents. Instead of "Main Mining Base", you would see "Signal detected".

    Wouldn't prevent people from seeing you but would provide some ambiguity as to what is at that location (important base or scout ship) until the encryption is "cracked".
     
  3. Flock Of Panthers Trainee Engineer

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    10
    I dig this one.

    NPC cargo ships? Don't know what it is till you get closer. Other player blips? Need to go closer to know.

    Code cracking could work, I have no idea what the upper limits of programming will be, but honestly I'd be happy enough with "non-friendly signals are displayed as just 'signal 3142' until you close to half their broadcast range"

    I think this might be coming with programming (i remember talk of custom interfaces), but I would love the ability to turn off signal display without turning off the whole UI.
    Maybe like... Tab turns off the whole HUD, Caps Lock turns off signal displays.
     
  4. entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    Signals can have different frequencies. If your equipment is not set to detect that frequency, you don't get that information. That is a way to allow for private, faction, faction + ally, or public transmission of signals. There should be a way to discover those frequencies... maybe hacking an antenna. But, the one reason I do not play mulitplayer is the fact that if I broadcast, anyone within range can see it.
     
  5. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    1,411
    The signals are useful for finding ships, but why not have a way of storing coordinates for stations, since they dont move?
     
  6. kristakis Junior Engineer

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    607
    >>ANY<< support for co-ordinates would be nice! I am hoping someone makes a mod with the new programming system to get access to co-ords.
     
  7. mushuiv Trainee Engineer

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    personally seeing as we have frequency hopping technology today which makes it virtually impossible to triangulate even at fairly high transmission power lvls i would be all for having a seperate "secure network" you can build at higher cost perhaps to offset the fact the enemy cant see it
     
  8. Nilat Apprentice Engineer

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    290
    Somebody did it already

    Though it only solves a tenth of the problem
     
  9. Hyomoto Apprentice Engineer

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    244
    The "realistic" solution would be antenna frequency as it could expand options rather than reduce them. There are problems with the current system having pinpoint accuracy as you should be able to pinpoint a broadcast, and why do these antennae just keep transmitting?

    Having beacons broadcast it's coordinates is how it should work. Then encrypting the transmission would actually make sense for being factional.

    The antenna should also only radiate while broadcasting something. You could pick that up on a spectrometer, even if you could get a direct fix on it. You could use that to home in on something eventually, but not instantly. With frequency hopping and cycling the beacon you'd have a functional faction beacon that is difficult to home in on by an enemy.

    My point is only that systems that expand game play are worth looking at. Just checking a privacy box only simplifies a problem by removing it and what fun is that? If in game programming is going to allow for viruses and such, these are the type of systems that would make it interesting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2014
  10. Haunty Apprentice Engineer

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    177
  11. SupremeCommanderZim Trainee Engineer

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    34
    not broadcasting the ssid does not prevent connection. it only a difference in active versus passive signal connection.
    but it could be useful.

    right now things are active all the time
    active:
    SecretBaseAntenna:"I am SecretBaseAntenna, and i'm right over here incase anyone wants to talk to me lalalala"

    but you could goto passive
    make it so unfriendly antenna broadcast power and not id, and then let antenna lurk in passive mode until you poll them for location
    passive:
    Hostileship1: i dont see any hidden bases over here
    ship12: SecretBaseAntenna, are you there?
    SecretBaseAntenna: "over here"
    Hostileship1 says: hey i thought i saw something blink over there

    its doesnt hide them completely but it hides them better
     
  12. Tumskunde Trainee Engineer

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    9
    User Tumskunde Login Accepted

    I'd personally like to see antenna using different frequency bands, with options for more limited/expansive antenna that are either focussed on a particular band or otherwise. This may not offer a huge boon, but it could allow for cheaper antenna on larger platforms, as the small platforms are dirt cheap.

    I'd also like for Antenna to be able to be set to recieve only or have a hidden ID, and not broadcast anything on the HUD, mostly to clear up my work area in my base without having to power everything down. If this is the case then antenna should also be able to be set to sweep an area for signals

    Optical Comms would also be awesome as then I could link the various platforms I use, only needing LOS, maybe to a possible relay point. Though I think these should be limited to a single connection per block pair, should we get them and that the signal should be lost if LOS is. An interesting idea came from this thought, if they should be implemented then one should also have a means of detecting the beams, perhaps on a short range basis, as well as the possibility of using a ship with a pair of OC blocks to splice itself into the signal and allow one to interact/recieve information.

    Another option, might be using Quantum Entanglement to provide antenna and recievers with a 'secure' connection. This would probably need a far more expansive tech base than our simple Assemblers could provide. This is also like the Optical Comms in that they would be limited to a single block pair, though LOS and distance would not matter.

    On a side note, a Navigational computer block that can give current coordinates and also store them could render much of this moot where a lot of people are concerned, though the capture of such an item could lead to ruin.

    User Tumskunde Signing Off
     
  13. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    Except quantum entanglement can't ever be used for transferring information because it causes causality loops and is otherwise scrambled. People assume that quantum entanglement means what happens in one locale happens in another exactly the same and instantaneously. That is a common misconception in laymans understanding - you can't get information transferred between A and B. It'll be different in both locales regardless and can only be 'decoded' when you observe both. So data and information would need to be passed between A and B through standard means rendering its ability as a communication tool completely useless.

    You can also set an Antenna to receive only already if you dial its broadcast range down to 1m.

    I like the nav computer idea and the location stealing meta from it as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2014
  14. Mad Mike Apprentice Engineer

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    265

    I agree and also keep my antenna on 1m in multiplayer.

    A quantum telegraph could work but the implementation would be beyond our tech.
     
  15. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    The idea of quantum telegraph or quantum morse code doesn't work simply because you need to compare both entangled particles to decode any usable information.

    Its just how quantum mechanics work sadly.

    But luckily means it doesn't violate the EPR paradox and otherwise bring out entire understanding of science crashing down into a burning mess.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2014
  16. RTM Apprentice Engineer

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    285
    It'd actually kill the fun.
     
  17. RTM Apprentice Engineer

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    Bullshit.

    Militaries at present can find spread-spectrum radios. And doing so in space is way easier.
     
  18. extraammo Senior Engineer

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    1,015
    This is dumb. Please stop. We all know that you are logged in. Unless you have a condition that causes you to envelope every action with narration, this is not necessary.
     
  19. bobolieux Trainee Engineer

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    10
    With private antennae you could make a GPS tracker drone that stuck to enemy ships and secretly broadcast their location to you. Which would be awesome.
     
  20. bobolieux Trainee Engineer

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    Another solution would be to differentiate beacons and antennae further by making their use cases separate.


    Beacons for navigational aids - always show on HUD for anyone

    Antennae for communications - never show on HUD for anyone

    That way you can't use an antenna as a way to visibly locate a ship, but you could use them to turn a beacon on and off to find your way home.
     
  21. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    but radio signal in space will be like shining a torch in a dark room for other people to see
     
  22. fusurugi Junior Engineer

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    521
    Radar dishes with duplex communication where orientation, XYZ speeds and intentions (user inputs) are phoned to the base and it adjusts the dish accordingly.
    Kicking up to 11, the focal point of the signal can be adapted with dish specifications (reflector size, deepness of the bowl, etc)


    only if it's a non directed EM burst
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2014
  23. Jarin Trainee Engineer

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    78
    What about laser coms? Stationary point-to-point, must have line-of sight. You'd put in one unit, then in its interface, select another unit that you owned and it would check line of sight and establish connectivity if there's no asteroid in the way/ the unit is facing the right direction.
     
  24. Smoo Apprentice Engineer

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    153
    Oh good, I'm not the only one who things those things and people who post in altered font stuff are silly.

    Let's be honest, here. In a PVP environment, antennas that give away positions are worse than useless.

    But there's a solution: directional communications. The ships know their positions, right? So a base should able able to direct a finely-aiming laser turret at a distant location, and pulse it to send data. A one-target antenna, capable of hitting a static or mobile target.

    Each side talks to the other, giving position updates, and watching any movement of the other to adjust the aim.

    Practically:
    • New "turret" block. No damage, just communications. Uses line of sight rather than AOE broadcast to transmit. This requires lock-on mechanics which exist, but for them to be controlled by a player, which does not. Yet.
    • New "receiver" block. Aim a transmitter turret at it, and it receives, fairly simple, except you can place it anywhere, and pair it with a normal antenna. So broadcasts could come from platforms consisting of a receiver, reactor, and antenna. Thus, a base is not at risk just for powering up the antenna.
    For drone usage, you could remote-fly out a drone ship with a transmitter turret (let's say they will both transmit and receive) and an antenna. Then, stop it, spin the thing up, and power on the antenna. Presto, a remote location with a usable antenna that ignores line of sight, plus probably another transmitter back at base to fly out other drones for reasons.

    And from there, antenna jamming, both optical and regular. Which probably SHOULD be quite non-stealthy.

    Seems like a fairly healthy possible system to me? Risk vs reward, instead of people just waiting until a logoff before they raid someones base at minimal risk.
     
  25. Jarin Trainee Engineer

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    78
    Honestly, I'd just be happy to toggle off viewing antennas on my HUD. I don't play PvP, and I'm addicted to remote control, so everything has antennas... which massively clutters up my viewing space.
     
  26. kristakis Junior Engineer

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    607
    yes please.
     
  27. doctorspaceman Trainee Engineer

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    For Survival PvP, having private antenna broadcasts really opens up a bunch of strategies for faction warfare. We could set up sensor networks and carve out territories in space.

    I play on a server that uses X Y Z beacons as a makeshift coordinate system. Antennas are only ever used at short range because nobody wants enemy factions to know their locations.

    For those of you arguing 'it's not realistic'. We're in space, using make-believe blocks to build things, we never poop, never eat, never sleep, we can carry an entire spaceship in our backpack, etc.

    I understand a certain amount of realism is needed to keep the game fun and ease immersion, but certainly we can see a future where technology has advanced enough to allow a sufficiently secure means of 2-way radio communications (think Star-trek).
     
  28. Oddbare Trainee Engineer

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    2
    Agree. Private antennae would really unscrew a lot of problems with Survival.
     
  29. doulos05 Trainee Engineer

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    I'm not opposed to private antennae, because that's logical. An antenna's function is to remote control a ship like a drone. It's not easy to track a modern day drone (though finding a base station controlling them would be fairly simple provided it was a ground system and not a satellite network) so antennae shouldn't broadcast their location to anyone except the person controlling it. Beacons are beacons, they light up like crazy so everyone can see them. Antennae are antenna receivers, they reply to specific inputs. There's a difference and the fact that there isn't a difference in game is a problem.

    In short,
    beacons: always visible to everyone
    antennae: visible only to people asking to see them (and to ask for an antenna to share it's location, it needs to be shared with you via the Faction system, which would neatly represent faction-specific frequencies and encryption/authentication procedures)

    In reality, anybody within an x degree cone emanating from the beacon and centered on the person asking to see the antenna should also be able to see direction of the antenna, but compromises need to be made for the sake of programming and this might be one of those compromises.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.