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Programming Picture

Discussion in 'General' started by TodesRitter, Dec 29, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Captain_Brian Apprentice Engineer

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    Yeah, kind of like how Unity allows you to hook up to Visual Studio for the coding instead of their unstable buggy mess of an IDE.
     
  2. Danzarlo Apprentice Engineer

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    ID casually make spotlights if your getting my drift... but i doubt that this would be possible
     
  3. Forgemasterhd Junior Engineer

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    Also, this code is flawed. Nowhere in it's entirety is the word "Hype"
     
  4. DanDuncombe Apprentice Engineer

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    If the coding is gonna be in some C language then it will do nothing for me, but I'm sure someone will be able to use it. I have tried and failed in the past to learn Harbour, C++, Python and Java. I just forgot how to do things the day after I learned them. I would get fairly far in a tutorial, then be unable to finish it because I couldn't remember how to set a variable or something stupid like that.
     
  5. gompasta Apprentice Engineer

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    The easiest way to learn it so do the same tutorial repeatedly. Each time, attempt more stuff without referencing the tutorial, until you know almost all of the functions, and how they work, off by heart. Note that SE would have a lot simpler to use libraries than if you were writing your own game, since a lot of the variables and functions are already set and ready to use (eg. toggling a thruster merely needs reference the thruster name/group, then set a boolean value to true to enable them.) You do not need to have super complex scripts for it to be useful. Having a simple script do a simple task like thruster management (eg. Search for all thrusters pointing backward, and set thrust to full) to processing logistics (eg. Pull all iron ore into refinery marked [Iron])
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  6. DanDuncombe Apprentice Engineer

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    Thanks for the encouragement! So basically, do a tutorial a couple of times, then see if I can make my own little programs with what I know so far, then expand from there? Also, I wonder what nefarious things people are going to be able to make with coding... automatic AI ore cannons that fly around blowing stuff up, patrol ships, heck knows what else.

    Edit: I wonder if this will mean we can have properly autonomous cargo ships, that fly around and stuff?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  7. gompasta Apprentice Engineer

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    Most likely, if more advanced functions for different blocks come with scripting, such as a antenna storing vector location of other blocks, and beelining straight for it to make a sort of homing missile that doesn't rely on sensors.

    Ships can detect if ore storage is full, then return to a vector point in the world, reorient, and dock with a station. Might be difficult to actually detect obstacles and pathfind, but I am sure it is possible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  8. DanDuncombe Apprentice Engineer

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    Detecting obstacles could likely be done with normal sensors (presumably sensor data can be used in scripts)
     
  9. gompasta Apprentice Engineer

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    Oh, absolutely. But it still needs to find a way around an obstacle! Sensors have a very short range, so unless there are other ways to detect asteroids in the future, it may be pretty easy for a ship to crash into the obstacle just after it detects it. Unless it has a ludicrous amount of thrust to brake before the 20 or so meters runs out.
     
  10. a2457 Senior Engineer

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    haaaa robot arena minigame YEEY.


    scrap it, a server where the player must stay at a specified location, and only scripted ships are allowed :D
    battle of AI's.
     
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  11. Azan Trainee Engineer

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    I'm not against increasing the amount of automation in game and I have a lot of experience coding myself but I don't think this is a good approach.

    It's simply not gamer friendly and frankly I think it's more interesting seeing how people work within the limitations of the system to produce amazing contraptions rather than just hand them total power and control over how things work.

    I would like this tool in creative mode so complex scenarios could be made, but I would prefer it not to be in survival. Instead I would prefer a couple more control blocks like the timer to be added, you can already make simple algorithms that way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  12. gompasta Apprentice Engineer

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    Do not worry about this scripting system being a godly tool. I believe there will be massive limitations to the usage of it, and does not allow anything to adversely affect gameplay. It will probably only affect components connected to a new, computer block which cannot be modified past current limits.
     
  13. Azan Trainee Engineer

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    If it's heavily limited then why bother with it in the first place, instead stick to something non-programmer people are going to be able to get their heads around. Otherwise what you described sounds exactly like what I was expecting. A single block which would give you a tremendous amount of flexibility and control extremely easily (if you can program).

    The only thing I have done which involved automation yet in SE has been an automated mining drone which would move through an asteroid and then once it cleared it, turn around and start mining again. It's not a particularly clever algorithm but tuning the control system to reliably turn and find asteroids and then re-enter without scraping the surface was a fairly enjoyable challenge. If I have code available there wouldn't have been a challenge, I could have probably written some control code within a few minutes which would do everything.

    In minecraft when people make amazing redstone contraptions it's amazing because they have done it within the limitations of the system, no one would care if they did that using a script.

    TLDR: Leave it as creative only because making systems without code adds challenge and evens the playing field between players.
     
  14. AGiantK Trainee Engineer

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    I have found that if i Shift-Tab into the stesm overlay, i can then Alt-Tab with none of the issues I had experienced in only Alt-Tabbing...
     
  15. Pharacon Trainee Engineer

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    I love to make redstone stuff in minecraft, but with the coding in SE you can do REALLY advanced stuff without taking up huge amounts of space. Sure currently you could just make a miner go drill through a rock, spin around come back through over and over, but with coding you could have it fly off find the specific ore you are looking for, mine and return.

    Also like redstone this is an optional part of SE, you can't do it.. fine doesn't hurt the core game play, but unlike redstone everyone will be able to share it via scripts and the workshop etc. So that a person can develop the auto ore seeking miner and another person can import and use it.
     
  16. Floki Apprentice Engineer

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    While I understand your point, Azan, I cannot say that I agree. Yes, scripts will make some tasks easier, like organising ore, or various other tasks ingeniously solved through current methods, but scripts will make possible so much that was simply not possible before. I could give examples, but I don't really think it necessary, the possibilities will be massive.
    Look at what wiremod did for garrysmod. Not everyone used the E-Gate (scripting), but everyone could grasp the basics of arithmetic gates, logic gates and such to make basic things like doors or traps.
    I am sure that to achieve the complex stuff, you will need complex knowledge, but any player who cannot be bothered to learn 5 minutes of code to do basic things deserves no more than pistons and rotors.

    Also, c'mon, 2077 and you expect astronauts not to have a working knowledge of basic scripting?

    TLDR
    I personally cannot wait to welcome my AI war drone overlords.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  17. a2457 Senior Engineer

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    "Also, c'mon, 2077 and you expect astronauts not to have a working knowledge of basic scripting?"

    allmost getting true in 2015 lol...
     
  18. merak Apprentice Engineer

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    i agree with all but the bold stuff why do i have to "deserve" to use a feature in a game? if i dont want to earn how to script it is not something a game will change my mind on starting (if have some intrest in scripting, a game will make me want to learn but i at this moment i am at best is only interested in "how" the script looks but not how to do it my self.)

    With that said i will probly use and copy paste any feature i want in my single player World that an other person will have done for me (as i gather there is ALOT of programmers in this forum for example) as the things i will need is easy to do (sorting and the like i Think)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  19. a2457 Senior Engineer

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    dun take it on you that hard.
    "deserve" nothing more than pistons and rotors.. means if you are unwilling to at least copy a creation of someone else.
     
  20. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    Programming, YAY! I just can't use it. :( After trying and failing many times to learn basic programming, I am still totally in the dark about it. The one and only thing I have ever been able to reliably program was the old lego mindstorms with the drag and drop GUI interface. I have a vague understanding of how a script works, as it works similar to electronic components like transistors, etc. I just don't have the mind for the actual code languages themselves. give me a way to tie together strings of actions with modifiers and conditions, along with the ability to base actions on the state of a block, in a GUI, and I'll be happy. Until then, I'll just stick to my tried and true timer blocks.
     
  21. merak Apprentice Engineer

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    i did not mean it in any kind of "rage" way it is just i suck at grammar (and Spelling) that made it look like it were i was angry i mearly stated "the other side" as it were that there is some people that will never use programming and would still be interested with the work other people does :)

    and adding a "Point and click" thing to ad a sorting system for conveyors in this "programming block" will have it so people like me that does not want to learn can use it as well as programmers :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  22. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

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    Thanks, I will give that a try.

    I have never been able to alt-tab this game, despite the fact that the issue has been "fixed" several times. I can alt-tab virtually everything thing else in my game library, so I don't think it's my PC.
     
  23. shimonu Apprentice Engineer

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    The more I think about programming, the more I am thinking of limitations.
    100 lines per computer block (or something similiar limitation), will scripts be able to activate other scripts (computer blocks), will they be able to be copied when builded with projector, how it can work with mods and others things.
    I am gonna get a headache before it will be released :D
     
  24. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    I have been waiting for this for so long! This will make SO much possible in the game, especially considering this is C# (my favorite!), which is a very complete language, I have existing AI projects I could PORT to space engineers if you guys allow enough of the framework to be used :p

    It would be nice to have some basic syntax highlighting though, C# is too syntactically complex to loosely type from your hands comfortably without at least some checking on if you capitalized that one 20-character class correctly while you're debugging a huge chunk of code. Having visual studio open next to space engineers is cheating ;)

    I hope events or constant running loops will be supported! From the image it only seems like you can only hook a scripted action to a button, that will GREATLY reduce what you can do to automate a ship/station! .. Although, come to think of it, I could run a script in a loop using a timer block.. HM. We'll see. Either way I can't wait, this is a MUCH needed addition for everyone who has larger operations running than a single ship!
     
  25. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    Why don't you guys run the game in 'Fullscreen window'? Alttabbing works amazingly well with that, it doesn't seem to degrade any performance, they put that option in Options -> Video for a reason.
     
  26. picklerok Junior Engineer

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    Actually, I wouldn't have it any other way, except for maybe also having a "Play" button in the control panel as well. It seems like it does the same thing as pressing the "Play" button in whatever editor you are using. From there you can use infinite loops and what not.
     
  27. a2457 Senior Engineer

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlYteJAwMQ

    bit off topic, but still on topic.
    sortha like Schrödinger's cat : wanted dead AND alive.
     
  28. Volfram Senior Engineer

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    Why don't you guys run the game in 'Fullscreen window'? Alttabbing works amazingly well with that, it doesn't seem to degrade any performance, they put that option in Options -> Video for a reason.[/QUOTE]
    This, more or less.

    I can see why you would run it not in "Fullscreen Window," but if you don't need to run at a different resolution from your desktop, this really is the better option.

    That's probably the source of the crashing, too. Video cards don't like changing screen resolution. They're not supposed to have to do it a lot.
     
  29. TheNirl Trainee Engineer

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    Let me just say that I think this is solidifying the next step in human education. I have a law degree myself, but I strongly believe that if I don't have at least a basic grasp of coding by the time I'm 40, I'll be today's equivalent of the older folk today who can't make a google search. At least I'm aware that my employment options will be severely hindered. Having programming in this game might actually be a tremendous encouragement for other game developers to bring the concept, in some form or another, into younglings' lives, and encourage these same young ones to keep some sort of knowledge on the subject.
     
  30. a2457 Senior Engineer

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    thing is programming is nothing more than a logical puzzle.
    regardless of the language / syntax used.
    teaches how to think in a logical way.
    the video points it out, using computer software without any idea on how it works,
    is simply eqvivalent to learning to read, but not learning how to write.

    it should be pretty standard, just like installing software on your computer,
    or the knowledge of changing a lightbulb.
    it should be encourged, there are allmost no fields of work where a bit of programming knowledge would not make life better.
    afterall, we use computers everywhere in real life.

    if for a too long time people forget to lean how they work, those who do have what it takes to write software will be treated like priests of some sorth.
    sciense would look like magic.
    and that in my eyes is eqvivalent to a form of mental slavery.
     
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