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Progression System

Discussion in 'General' started by Potter, Mar 21, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Yeoman Trainee Engineer

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    98
    This it's exactly what we need to expand the game. Not sure how feasible an ever expanding set of ships and stations would be, but a spawn zone with a central capital would be cool.

    Then again you could just jump through the spawn zone and destroy the capital.
     
  2. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    If ship is within <5km of faction territory then spawn "Patrols" and "Stations" If not, remove them. Keep the station´s characteristics saved and congrats, you´ve got a persistent enemy perimeter.

    In reality there wouldn´t be factions battling it out for dominance, just a random algorithm would check if bordering territory is unocuppied and then make a roll to check if it conquers that territory or not. For battling AI factions it´s a matter of who is stronger and has the more territory... and some randomness.

    About destroying the capital, that would work if you´ve got the exact coordinates AND there are no grids near the station, allowing you to jump within 1-2 kms. That IF you´re allowed to jump to enemy territory ;)

    However, you would need to destroy all of the sectors to completely win, not just the "capital" or maybe just the "capital" I don´t know what works best :p
     
  3. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    Here is the real problem that people just keep dancing around.

    SE is really just 1/3 of a completed game in it's tier of games.

    1) A game like SE needs a really strong building/design/customization mechanic. We have that. Great. It's actually pretty amazing even with all the klang, futzy console, block naming, etc, etc.

    2) A game like SE needs a true resource economy in which resources are collected, expended and traded at challenging rates. Trading provides a game mechanic actually worth doing stuff for, so does running out of stuff that you need to live. But SE has a totally broken economy, you can get to post scarcity in all things very easily such that there would be no reason to trade if if you could without mods. Bad. The lack of a really robust scarcity of things removes any existential threat of actually running out of stuff. Now I'm not suggesting U, or Ice be such a rare bugger to find that everyone dies of boredom and quits. We need a happy medium where the state of resources isn't a binary "can't do anything" or "have more than I will need for 10 human lifetimes of gaming real time". Without some sort of robust resource system there isn't even any need to build big miners in survival - so that whole aspect of scaling production is effectively irrelevant past refinery spam.

    3) SE needs antagonization. You need a reason to build various warships, behave in certain ways, build up to a certain point, etc, etc, etc. Practically speaking SE is sterile. You don't get attacked in meaningful ways. Once you get vaguely astute at deflection shooting you can wipe argentavis out with a small but heavy gunfighter without issue.

    So really, survival is just a totally incomplete game. A progression system just adds more to #1, what we actually need is a better #2 and #3 because they are basically non-existent.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    111
    Sorry I post this in another thread, I post here too

    After read all post, I think that the only progression possible is: Start with very few materials suffering natural disasters and fault in some blocks that will mantain you busy reparing, then once that you have a perfect system producing ingots start to commerce with the "Imperium" an IA faction, who will ask you for more and more tribute (A giant armored ship will come to get the tribute every week) and then build in a secret area your own ship to destroy "Imperium ship"

    Dont know if I explain it well
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Seems the Devs are working towards progression starting with crash-landing on a planet. With the parachute and wind-turbines being added, it's looking more and more geared towards a "Hard" early start on planets.

    Instead of the massive (and fully stocked) starter atmo-ship, you get a seat and some armor blocks with (possibly) a cargo container with just enough supplies to build a refinery and/or assembler. <they seem to be working on a new "lower-tier" variant of these.

    So, being stuck on a planet with a crummy refinery and assembler (likely upgrades would require platinum so, until you reach the moon, you're SOL). Your power options include wind (obviously), solar, and batteries. This gives you just enough to get around. Uranium would also be a possibility but we're talking about a challenge.

    There is no challenge in finding a massive uranium deposit in 10 minutes and never having to worry about the stuff again. <So, very likely, these default refineries and assembler will not be able to refine or build certain materials; and if they can do so, at a very limited pace. IF the devs don't completely rework the ore deposits completely. Making them smaller and/or difficult to detect and reach (by making them deeper into the ground). The other option to limit the availability of uranium and other ores (since we can all agree that you only need to drill for a few minutes to have a years supply) is to tweak the amount of ingots you get out of each kg of raw ore. <slightly strange that you can harvest a 10m3 area of iron and end up with enough iron ingots to cover 100m3 in steel blocks.

    Electric driven atmo-thrusters would be a primary thruster with hydrogen also being a key fuel source. Thing is, you can almost instantly escape a planet if you land near (or build a base near) an ice lake. So, again, 20 minutes in game-time and you're already set to get off the planet and never needing a reason to look back. So, the question is, what will the devs add next that will make you either want to stay or force you to stay a little bit longer on a planet in order to build up to getting to the moon (where in all likelihood you will be using platinum to upgrade to the more advanced pieces of equipment and blocks)?

    I can think of only three things that will force you to stay on a planet and not leave almost instantly. 1: make hydrogen harder to obtain early on. 2: Add a material that you cannot live without for long but can only be supplied from an established source and/or takes time to create (yes, I'm talking about Food). OR 3: again, make the actual materials and/or equipment that harvest and builds that material more difficult to find, collect, and establish.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    You could make "normal" uranium have a lower energy density (Not null though), and then have "enriched uranium" for a 10x power boost but that requieres further refining and a more high-tech production infraestructure.

    *Edit*

    @Levits, I´m wary of just making things rare without giving us a substitute to fill the gap left by them, otherwise it´s just more grind and hurts replay value.

    We need an actual thing to measure up to/overcome
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    True. Though as far as "location" is concerned with progress. Starting on a planet is merely 1/2 of the issue. There's also the space start. I'm thinking after the devs have worked out starting on planets (meaning that you start with the initial challenge of setting up infrastructure and getting off that rock), the devs will work on a more challenging start to space. Whereby you have to establish a way to survive after some (random) catastrophe that leaves you without a ship... or at least something a bit more difficult to deal with than starting with that yellow tub.

    You can effectively (as of right now) live your entire life and gameplay aboard any of the current starting ships. The yellow tub and the dropship have everything (and that is with excess) you could ever need to play the game from start to finish. Great for easy starts, but no challenge what so ever (as long as you don't wreck the thing).

    So, the challenge for planets is easy (depending on the planet). Starting on Earth-like is real easy. Mars you have to have oxygen to survive so that's a priority but doable. Alien would be a challenge with the Sabiriods. But they'd all share the same major goals to reach: Getting into space AND/OR claiming, exploiting, and/or protecting your own piece of land. <those are the major goals to planets.

    Space... is a bit more difficult to give any real objectives. 1st would be to survive. Power... and... well, that's it. Food is a great motivator but there are those that don't want that sort of thing added. But there would have to be something in the game to make you want to do something and in a timely manner less you run the risk of dying. As far as challenge goes, there is really zero challenge to the game other than some annoying dogs and "pirates"... who, frankly, I've never had a problem with as far as getting rid of them (more like exploiting them really <it's been a while since I've played though so unless they've been revamped to be a bit more dangerous, they're more or less (was?) just an annoyance).

    But NPC's (that don't want you dead) could also be a big part to progressing; either via missions or in other ways. Such as building to support a specific NPC faction or whatever. <but that's still up in the air as to whether or not they will ever be added. From playing Minecraft, having a NPC village to protect certainly motivated me to build a fortress around them and to upscale their village to add more... though I'm not sure if that's the kind of progression that Space Engineers is concerned with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    There´s a programable block in the workshop that looks like a flightseat with a player in it, it could be made vanilla and require certain unobtainable components to build along with being able to execute certain functions a normal programmable block can´t do. You buy a "crewmember" in a "Trading hub" station and you automatically get delivered a "crew man" (a building component) with which to build that special programable block (That looks like a crew member and enables certain functions.) It would need "food" to function, after a certain period without food, the crewmember component gets destroyed or something like that...

    And there it is, a functional crew without the hassle of codding actual NPCs. A poor-mans solution but I would be more than happy to take that over what we have right now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Lurch84 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    63
    Sounds like most bridge crews from most scifi shows... :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. Me 10 Jin Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    463
    Nah, we need a buxom blonde to repeat everything the computer voice says. (Galaxy Quest ref: ✓)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    I need buy moar redshirts...

    Last wunz expired.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.