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Proper planets and a true galaxy

Discussion in 'General' started by Nibs_1983, May 17, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Nibs_1983 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    According to Wikipedia a meteorite varies from 2 metres across up to 940km whilst planets vary between 2,300km and 10,066,000km. If I'm right I believe planet size in SE is 120km across. Does this mean they never actually introduced planets and we have all in fact just been exploring pretty meteorites?

    I think it would be pretty cool if planets within the system had a kind of border/area around them that would question if you chose to land on that planet. If you did it would take your ship and load it into a new map for that planets surface. If the planet is too big for just a single map then it would have multiple maps that could be accessed by moving to the edges. This would allow us realistic planets and tons of exploration potential. For leaving planets the process is reversed. You blast off and leave the atmosphere. Its at this point the game takes your ship and loads it into the 'space' map.

    Each player could have an in game profile that kept record of maps on which they've explored and built and messages could be received to inform the player of changes in circumstances (base attack, player at x wishing to communicate with faction y, player x needs resource y and will trade z for y etc.). A player could openly explore the galaxy but if they chose to use jump drives or warp or whatever kind of super fast space travel they chose, they either jump blind or collect co-ordinates they've either attained themselves or co-ordinates some other kind soul has given them.

    Factions can have allies and make enemies, people can trade, different players would have different outlooks on how to attain what they want (aggressive and warlike, peaceful traders, peacekeepers etc.). Different stances lead to very different engineering styles.

    Do others believe that the current 'planets' need supersizing? And if so, what would they do?
     
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  2. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,225
    what would be the point in super sizing them?

    take your engineer and run for 4 km's no jetpack no intergalactic planetary ship...just you and your feet running 7 m/s
    planet's feel endless when you do it like that.


    I agree with true galaxy's its awesome having a world filled with delightly wacky crazy and insane planets from the workshop
    capital "F" paying respects to those that are now just big orbs.. -_-

    i would love if a universe can be loaded with modded planets instead of having to manually do that.
    i would love many many things for SE but eventually i've accepted that what i'd like for SE would be what SE is all about. :3
    just have to follow each update and get excited hoping they fix things like wheels or add more exciting things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,209
    imo they are big enough. Playing months on Alien planet and never used even the 1% of it surface. I agree that a bigger planet would look Awesome, but in terms of gameplay it doesn't really matter.
    I saw Star Citizen planets, and Elite Dangerous and also Infinity Battlescape, those planets look incredible, mind blowing. SC planet I think is procedural generated? some of them? not sure. but the other ones are prebuilt ones and not destructible.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,797
    The devs decided to make the world seemless with no load screens/idle time for planets. What you're suggesting would place a barrier between the atmosphere of the planet and free space.

    This DEFINITELY wouldn't work in multiplayer. Interactions can happen anywhere on the map. Having things disappear when they get close to a planet or enter free space wouldn't work.

    Having planets the size of real life equivalents would be nice. But it's unnecessary. There has to be a compromise in order for the game to work.

    The exploration idea that you're speaking of could be done but would require a TON of time to do. There's probably not a budget to do it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Lt_Duckweed Apprentice Engineer

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    417
    Planets can be supersized in the base game already. Well, they patched it out, but a few months ago all you had to do was edit a few lines in a config file. I have driven around a full size mars and a half size earth. And there is a dude who has some videos floating around of full size planets.

    It's not an engine limitation. It's a gameplay one
     
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  6. AdInfinitum Trainee Engineer

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    13
    Honestly the planets feel about the perfect size right now, given the speed cap. Let's take RL Earth and the ISS for an example. It's about 12000 km across. The ISS is orbiting at roughly 7.5 km/s, and it still takes around 90 minutes for it to complete one orbit.

    Even if our planets were 1000km in diameter, it would take a very long time to get to the opposite side, or multiple jumps
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  7. damoran Junior Engineer

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    608
    I fail to understand your motivation for wanting such large planets, is it simply to fit the textbook definition?

    You mention exploration potential but I found that unless these worlds are hand crafted with attention to detail on a scale similar to our own planet you would end up with something akin to minecraft. Once you've seen each biome you've seen it all and quite frankly there's no reason to continue onwards unless you run out of resources. Even then it's usually a matter of transporting those new resources back to your base anyhow.

    Considering the scale of the game I think the planets we already have are almost too big. Even with 50 players on a single server, there's just so much space and with 3 planets you could get lost and never see one another.
     
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  8. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,209
    Instead of bigger planets, I will prefer more detailed ones. Now the terrain look too smooth, no rocks, sharp mountains, ravines, environment effects (it could be aesthetic)
     
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  9. Nibs_1983 Trainee Engineer

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    26
    Bigger planets means ores are spread out more. How do different people get around this issue? a)Vehicles that travel on the ground b)over the ground (hovercraft) c)or in the air d)or have a mobile base. Each player will approach it differently. Having larger planets allows numerous factions to build on a planet without being on top of each other or having to fight for resources. Differing countryside could lead to fights for ownership.

    Also, would like to say I agree with Spets on the detail front and think that planets should be more aesthetic. Oh, and water. Where's the water.
     
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  10. Uzul Apprentice Engineer

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    126
    This only makes sense with a gameengine thats able to support 8.000.000.000 players ... per planet ...

    ... with the actual amount of rather like 50 or 100 players on a server in maybe 2-5 factions, it absolutely makes no sense to make the planets so big, that it takes like 12 hours to meet each other ... or 3 months to visit the next planet.

    Even a gameengine that has no limitations in speed would still suffer as its like impossible for people to find each other ...
     
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  11. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,225
    christ imagine the sim speed if that many players are flying around on a planet?
    imagine the framerate!
    imagine the temperature of the poor poor server that has to run all that.

    I like being on small planets because it gives value to the old statement.
    "this town ain't big enough for the 2 of us."

    "this planet ain't big enough for the 2 of us......literally theres like one spot of ice."
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Supersized planets wre edited out for a reason ... a technical one and a limitation of the way the planets are actually displayed. When they get larger, you start to get distortion and bulging on the shape as you move away. That's one issue anyway. The other issue is as mentioned above. You just don't NEED that much real estate. It's mostly empty! Having more empty space on a planet doesn't make sense.

    Bigger planets mean bigger ore patches. They also scale with the planet. So when you make a planet bigger, you increase the amount of ore. Which is already VERY plentiful. It wouldn't promote any kind of competetive action on a server, as there is just more of everything. More travelling at max 100m/s, more stuff to mine, and nothing new to see for miles. There is also an issue with how the basic heightmap scales.....you are stretching it out really, not scaling it up.

    Oh yes. Water isn't happening. The question was asked...and answered. It is not even being considered.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    65
    Yeah, there are already sharp mountains and the odd sharp cliff and maybe valley. But it could do with some changes, add in actual valleys and canyons, a lot more rugged mountains. Or maybe more like "Rugged" biomes with those traits, and the odd planeary feature, like a massive valley, crater, mountain etc.
     
  14. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    As has been said hundreds of times and in this thread too planets in SE are perfectlh sized for planets in SE. What you are describing makes me think of Elite Dangerous with all the endless loading screens breaking immersion. I can't wait for SC 3.0 and its ideas on planets but SE planets are perfectly acceptable as they are.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. damoran Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    608
    Yes ED is painful when traveling around planets and their FTL system is so retarded.

    But yea I too hope a game like SE with full planets and 1,000's of players is possible. Some day
     
  16. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    379
    While I wouldn't complain about additional planet to explore I don't see a reason for it. As I've said in other threads, SE doesn't need to be 100% realistic for it to be fun. In fact I would find 100% realism to be boring as I play the game to have fun in a futuristic setting without needing that 100% realism. I do believe that other elements of realism could be introduced if done CORRECTLY however I've yet to see an iteration of some of these mechanics that imo wouldn't absolutely suck the fun out of the game. Instead of jacking up the size of the planets, I would much rather see additional planets to give us a full solar system instead of just the standard 3. The additional planets could include a lava type world, jungle planet, or perhaps a tidally locked planet, one side constantly dark and the other constantly light. Those are just some examples. Personally I would much rather see randomly generated pirate structures on other planets and such before anything else. Would be fun to be flying along scouting in my fighter and then after flying over a hill I'm dodging incoming fire from a massive pirate base or city I just found. That's just me anyways.
     
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  17. CrazyEd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Yeah, lets not go down the road of loading different zones / areas, having played Empyrion a lot, and SE a lot more, one of the biggest annoyances in Empyrion is the non seamless nature of the planet and the planet to space transition. Don't get me wrong, it's not terrible, but do the same "flight around the world" and head off to space and the difference is clear. You cannot underestimate the value of the shamelessness SE offers.
    Better would be variety in planets, with underlying reasons to explore them (ie. unique ores, which unlock tech perhaps)
     
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  18. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,797
    Playing on a 240km and 360km planet adds a lot of depth to the game. Having deep canyons/valleys and large rolling hills is very enjoyable. If it was something I was serious about I would edit down the size of the ore patches in Photoshop or Gimp so there wouldn't be lakes-o-ore.

    I can understand not supporting oversized planets in regular game play. But if people want to hack them into the game (outside of supported scope) then let them do it. It's not like an oversize planet could be easily made by pasting it in from the creative menu. You had to deliberately go through a few hoops and edit some XML to do it. Let us push boundaries rather than nerfing the game.
     
  19. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    Oh boy, I haven't seen a thread like this since 2014!

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    510
    The existing planets are big enough to look like planets. For a maximum size planet, two points on opposite sides would be about 180 km apart -- more than enough distance for two real-world cities to be separated by a lot of wilderness.

    [EDIT] More like 150 km apart. I was thinking of degrees, when I meant to be thinking of pi. Not an engineer IRL.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  21. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,225
    i guess i could say...if you think planets are small get off your fancy rootin'us tootn'us flying machine get on your cowboy hatted cowboy boots and run across the surface of the planet.

    you're realize how terribly boring planets are but you'll also appreciate how boring big they are.
    unless wolfs and spiders don't chow down on you first of all.....once you run out of ammo and have to engage them in mannly combat and also realize how bad melee combat in SE is....i'd love a melee pipe to swing...

    don't get me wrong the planets are fantastic when you can move fast with a rover,ship or jetpack.
    but getting around on foot is pretty painful. :p
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
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  22. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,797
    No one is saying that planets are too small. Only planets of up to 120km in diameter are supported. We're (I'm) just saying that giving people access to make planets even bigger via an unsupported hack allows for boundaries to be explored. It's not a question of justifying it to anyone. It's being able to do it and see what's possible.
     
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  23. russo_bolado Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    613
    I believe people should be given the choice of going above the 120km limit... But this IMHO should be better after the game is minimally polished. Allowing people to push the limits in beta phase would lead to much more bugs than we have now, I believe. And just for thought, with a 120 Km planet, to cover the whole surface, considering a perfect spherical planet and a ship with an abritrary 112,50 m²/s coverage speed (ship's horizontal size of 15 blocks, with a constant 15m/s speed), it'd take approx. 4,5 days in real life to explore the whole planet.

    Being able to push the limits is good, but it's pointless IMHO to increase the planet size if it's still going to be mostly lifeless, or only with the dumb threats we have today (Spiders/Cyberdoges)
     
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  24. Phoera Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,713
    for realtime whitelist checking you can also use VS diagnostics i made based on whitelist.
    it must be still actual(Did not saw changes, mention me if i am wrong)
    https://github.com/WhitePhoera/SEWhitelistDiagnostic
    one more add, you may need "Unlock" loaded dll.(in properties)

    also if you on discord you can ask my bot (PhoBot) about whitelist check for specific class.
     
  25. Speshal_Snowman Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    175
    I agree with having a true galaxy, I would love for the environment to feel alive, I feel like that is the biggest issue, rather than the size of a planet, since then there would be just more of nothing to do.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  26. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,225
    does anyone think procedurally generated voxel caves could be a thing?

    something randomly generated that could/would be exciting enough to explore.....could have things like a dead skeletal engineer like in the missions with a couple of cargo containers containing generic or rare parts. as well as parts worth grinding

    a dead skeleton engineer with some containers around him...maybe an lcd screen as a sort of electronic diary of his last moments or something.
    remnants of an old base gone dark...


    or is it be a case of.....game engine can't handle generating voxel caves. muh sim speed. muh frame rate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    510
    Speaking as someone who works in QA, pushing the limits is part of the process of finding bugs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Chaosrex Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    188
    I allready find it boring as fuck when i have to fly 120km in atmosphere without been able to just jump, and thats with out any issues due to multiplayer or simply the fact that you just don't got that much time and have actual other things to do then play.

    So doign this for 2000km?, hell no
     
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  29. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    841
    Do you remember the physics inquisition?
     
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  30. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    Heck, I remember Vermillion throwing a fit at the idea of planets in a game with "space" in the title.
     
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