Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Question to the staff / devs / marek about blocks and DLC

Discussion in 'General' started by zopzodeman, Apr 10, 2019.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    According to https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/glass-for-small-ships Keen thinks :
    "
    Space Engineers Support ● 6 months ago


    Hello, Engineers!
    We believe Space Engineers has too many blocks already, and it would increase the game's complexity too much.
    Cheers,"

    but since yesterday its ok with you to sell blocks that the community asked for years ?

    Why is it suddenly ok to sell blocks that a part of the community wanted in the base game , but on the other hand deny other things like glass for small blocks because "too complex"?
    What attitude is this?
    Edit : also you added Engines , Wind turbines and more in a previous patch , but thats also not too "complex"?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,356
    This subject has already been beaten to death. Do you want cheese with your whine?
     
  3. Thrak Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    535
    I think it's fair to say that Keen changed its collective mind. Not sure if any explanation is required beyond that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    What subject has been beaten to death here please?

    That there never was proper communication from the devs that there will be paid dlc that brought blocks the community asked for years , while before the game was already getting "to complex" to even add blocks ?

    call it whining , i dont care.... im a customer that supported the development of this game since its beginning , i have a right to get this sudden change in mindset explained.

    and especially for the provocating kind like you ,spaceman : luckily theres the ignore function, so i dont have to see you fanboying anymore...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
  6. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    this is neither a complaint nor a suggestion.... its a simple question...
    obviously some people dont like questions being asked...look in history where that leads to....
     
  7. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,356
    • Inappropriate Language
    You have a right? What sort of entitlement world do you live in? Seriously. You don't have a right. You agreed, when you purchased this software (assuming you actually purchased it), to accept it "as-is". It's no different when you purchase any other software. You get it as-is. If you don't like it, don't use it.

    - cuted by Moderator
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    @zopzodeman yours was a suggestion. (Suggestive overtone mixed with passive aggressiveness if you want to be technical.)
    You are suggesting everything to be given for free. :)
    Sounds like you are mad you can not afford 4.00 also.
     
  9. Thrak Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    535
    Whether or not someone can "afford" something is no one's business but their own, ever. That is a personal determination. Period. Are you trying to shame this person because might appear to be frugal or poor? Seriously? And talk about "passive aggressiveness"... sheesh... such bullshit.

    ====> obligatory smiley face, 'cause that makes everything okay: :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Where did i write even ONE word about the price of the DLC ? Please , show me where?
    Seriously , i think youre just trying to to be mean to someone who doesnt share your viewpoint.
    My Ignore list grows with every dumb post in this thread...
    I am asking why there was a 180° turn in the stance on new blocks ... and on top of that why the new blocks as dlc...

    On another note :
    "Uncivility, from condescention, name calling or questioning the posters character, is not and should not be welcome here."
    from : https://forums.keenswh.com/threads/disagreements-arguments-and-civility.7368302/
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    All that is bold in your own quote, you mention / complain about selling the new and compare the other blocks in the past that were free.

    Not being mean, just tired of all the posts not just this one in particular, about the DLC.
    It is simple either buy it or don't. It is Keen's game, they are the business.

    It is the same principle as going to a fair. Some fairs are free to get in, but you pay for each ride. Some fairs you pay to get in, plus you pay to ride. Very few are pay one price to get in, all the rides are free. (Of course then they stick ya with food and drink prices.)

    So if your feelings were hurt, that was not my intention. The intention is to make others see why the DLC is paid.
    Keen is a business, business have to pay employees, and also turn a profit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,356
    Or, said another way, "Welcome to the real world, Mr. Anderson."
     
  13. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    Was not trying to shame anyone.
    There are plenty of times in my life I could not afford 4.00

    Shamed myself - no biggie.

    :) Smiley face for the obligatory douchebagness
     
  14. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Then why do you try to have the last word on everything?
    why even come in others people threads and attack them ?
    Some people really try hard to interpret anything thats not on their "line" or point of view as "aggressive" or "hurting someones feeling" or try to whiteknight their favourite game wherever possible...
    some resort to name-calling...
    i really , really hope this doesnt turn into another "Star Citizen-toxicity level forum "
     
  15. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    Yeah, there are other things in the world to be upset over.

    I have got to try harder to remember that.
     
  16. Sirhan Blixt Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    449
    Just gonna leave that there.
     
  17. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,918
    It could be that the last set of free blocks was a lot of work that was... not universally well received. For instance, I am truly upset that the "hydrogen engine" made it into the standard game despite the protests of many well-educated and reasonable people. I also protested ;). I didn't ask for it, I didn't want it, I don't like it even being in my G menu, and I don't buy the "just don't use it" mentality. If you are a fan of the "hydrogen engine" you may not be aware of the backlash Keen got over it. The paid DLC model is somewhat safer because only the people that want the blocks will have them. Frankly, many people don't want them. They are interior decorative blocks, and the community has resisted having these blocks. Indeed, Keen's staff still seems to be a bit puzzled as to why anyone would want these blocks.

    Well, it turns out that people that said they didn't want the blocks in the game are now demanding they be free for everyone. What attitude is this?

    There was no 180 here. These are blocks that Keen Themselves didn't believe belonged in the game. They didn't want to shove them down everyone's throat, so they made them DLC. The small grid glass thing is a different story. EVERYONE wants that and we still don't have it. I doubt it's because Keen wants to make us pay for it.
     
  18. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,356
    Be careful, @Stardriver907 or you could be labeled a "fanboy"...or worse! I know, I know...such terrible things "they" say.
     
  19. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,918
    Fanboy it is, I guess then.




    Wait... should I be offended?
     
  20. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    In regards to the Hydrogen Engine : never used it , probably never will ... its not realistic , but this also counts towards the high power output of solars and especially wind turbines.
    I have the "game" (sandbox) since Feb. 2014 , i can remember there being nothing but reactors..

    I didnt DEMAND that the "Decorative" (still the wrong name for that,theyre basically reskins of blocks we already had , with the cockpit [and to some extend the lockers] being really problematic for the non-buyers...not gonna go into much detail here) blocks should be free... everybody should be able to use them. just not being able to build them would be fine , but there seems to be some problem or unwillingness implementing that.
    its also about as a non buyer having them in the G-menu and getting warning messages about them (Its like having a permanent recurring advertisment for ,lets say viagra, popping up.)...which doesnt happen to the hydrogen engine , you have it , can use it and dont get messages and you can CHOOSE not to use them and the only bother is them being in the g-menu.
    Yeah, i can choose not to buy the DLC , but i will always be bothered with them as long as someone i play with uses them or i download a blueprint that has them.
    Workshop mods are implemented so that everybody on the same server HAS to have them , they will automatically be downloaded at join. Anybody can use them .

    As planets were introduced , they created a big change in the minimum system requirements , many people protested and also didnt want planets , yet they were released regardless as a base addition... and i bet you this was 100 times more work then some "decorative" blocks.
    Small ship glass is in what way a different story? One could argue its uneeded and Keen doesnt want you to go crazy with small blocks...but it also has a high value as a "Decorative" part in e.g. "Rovers" or "Open cockpit" as a windshield. And it can be basically a resize of the big block one....

    Blocks are the wrong way / wrong kind of DLC
    ... if it were a nice campaign or more npcs as DLC (edit: npc COULD be problematic in mp) , i bet you there would not be a shitstorm going on.

    The main problem with Keen is (and always has been) lack of communication and inability to see how certain things they do in a particular way will unfold.

    EDIT:
    TLDR VERSION: BLOCKS ARE THE WRONG KIND OF DLC!
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  21. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,507
    And despite all that, zopzodeman, the DLC is selling like hotcakes, proving that all the salt and anger is due to a vocal minority.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  22. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Doesnt make the decision to sell Blocks as DLC more right , it only shows the sorry state the gaming industry and the community are in.... :)
    EDIT: From a business-only standpoint it may be a success , but its still dividing the community in 4 categories (vanilla, vanilla+dlc, mod+vanilla, mod+vanilla+dlc), as before there were only 2 (vanilla or vanilla+mod)...
    Edit nr2: All Keen did now accomplish is getting some more cash and basically did sow hatred/unequality/jealousy and so on....
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,507
    It's in a "sorry state" in your opinion. Clearly the majority doesn't agree with you.

    As you yourself is indicating, the community was already divided. At least people with and without the DLC can play together. That's less divisive than the mods. Although as I've stated several times, I believe the non-use restriction should be lifted. Not build and not repair, fine. But use, yes.

    Yes, a company got some more cash. Which is the purpose of a company.

    I'm sorry, but this thing just isn't as big as the vocal minority seems to believe. As it always is in situations like this. I certainly agree that it was silly to release blocks rather than, say, scenarios, but as they themselves said, this is low-hanging fruit. With these blocks they could get a little bit of extra income by utilizing the artists while the coders worked on other things, like the really cool LCD stuff. Free things, I might add. Free functional things that has been requested by the community since forever. Artists can neither fix the game nor add more features, so might as well utilize them for what they can do.

    You just wait until they actually release pay-to-win stuff... then you will see some real problems. This thing will seem like peanuts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    No need to emphasize that i think... ;)

    One of my points also.

    So you agree that it was "silly"? great, i think it was one of the WORST decision that could have been made... there were a multitude of routes they could have taken , like i said campaigns,skins and so on ,which would not have divided the community further.

    Nothing wrong with staying alive or turn a profit.But the way this was executed is just PLAIN BAD

    the main problem is , if noone really complains or critizes NOW , this IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN:
    EDIT: Sometimes i get the feeling other people think im here to badmouth or trying to be mean to Keen ? While in reality im here to critize, because I CARE about the game...i wouldnt have stayed with it for 5+ years if it werent so.
    And for anybody trying to argue that criticism is bad : What do YOU think drives people to get and do better ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    If someone has played the game since 2013/2014 then they shouldn't feel bad at all forking over 4.00, devs and programmers gotta eat and make a living. Plus Keen doesn't get the full 4.00, Steam takes a cut then their country takes out tax on it as well, and may be another charge or two that is taken out before Keen gets any of what is left.
    Just sayin.....
     
  26. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,507
    Well, you see, to me it's just not worth it to get overly worked up over. From my point of view, this is just a game. I'm not at risk at losing my job, just a game. They are. I tell them my opinion, and then I let it go. So yeah. Just silly. As a professional programmer myself I see their point of view as well, as I've already explained.
     
  27. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    You STILL dont get it , do you?
    where have i stated that noone should buy this dlc? where did i state i wont buy it? where did i state it is overpriced ?
    Its seems your constantly interpreting something in my posts thats not there....
    PLEASE , PLEASE , PLEASE with sugar on top : TURN ON YOUR BRAIN AND MEMORY BEFORE POSTING ! Because to me it looks like you dont.... im sorry if that offends you.

    Im only getting worked over here because i constantly get attacked (not by you , obviously) about MY FEEDBACK AND VOICING MY OPINION.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,209
    Anyone remember when they said "we will never make a DLC" it is probably on video somewhere. But, remember, they also said Planets are not possible, Ladders are no go.
    TLDR: Water in SE Confirmed!
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  29. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    YAY!
    Oh wait.... this will probably mean they sell water on planets via dlc and the non-buyers crash and burn on ice and get a message popping up : get the dlc to not crash but splash!:D
     
  30. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,661
    I didn't call you out, and also I was giving MY FEEDBACK and VOICING MY OPINION.

    I as a pretty avid player, have no issue paying for the DLC. My thought about the whole thing, you don't want to buy it don't. If you want it, buy it. It is kinda silly to get worked up over either way. I am a little guilty on getting worked up earlier, but finally hit me there are other things in life to exert energy on.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.