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Realistic, x3 or x10 ?

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Lysanderize, Mar 21, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,864
    I play:

    X3 inventory
    X3 refinery
    X1 for everything else

    I haven't had issues with most of the settings making things tedious, with the exception of inventory size. I don't play on 10x merely because it makes the weapon ammo capacities insane and I like the scale of ship cargo required by X3.

    X3 inventory but X1 welding/grinding is a nice compromise where you can actually do some things by hand acceptably, but welding/grinding ships are still basically mandatory.

    My current refinery requirements are huge, I'm operating close to 40 refiners and another 40 arc furnaces. But for me that's part of the fun and contributes to ship scale. I haven't had any performance hits from the number of production units, merely the cargo ship spam.
     
  2. russo_bolado Junior Engineer

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    613
    All x1. I find the most fun in balancing logistics and flow of materials.

    IMHO, if you have to wait AFK to refine/build, you're doing it wrong. The offers enough tools to make a continuous game play without waiting - it's just a matter of careful planning. And I have a very strict dogma on not cannibalizing the Rescue Ship (I play on Asteroids).
     
  3. paleohayduke Trainee Engineer

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    36
    1x1x1 . The larger inventory settings ruin the game for me. on 1 you are forced to build ships to do most of your work versus the unrealistic one man building a huge ship with the equipment in his magic backback. I play on dedicated online servers so refineries will work over night. 10x10x10 might as well play creative imho.
     
  4. Afka Trainee Engineer

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    19
    x1 and i'll play creative before ever cheating in survival
     
  5. TheNirl Trainee Engineer

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    97
    Well, after about 50 hours in x1, and having built 4 or 5 ships after starting in a lone survivor scenario, I believe I can safely say that any more than x1 is only good if one wants an easy mode, or needs it to record some sort of YouTube video in a timely fashion.
    The reduced inventories aren't just "more frustrating". One can get around that by building ships with larger inventories capable of doing things one would otherwise have to do by hand. So, it's a matter of engineering solutions.
    The increased refining and assembling times can be overcome by... building more refineries and assemblers. I really can't see any improvements to the game by jacking up the settings, unless one is struggling with performance issues from having too many refineries and assemblers. Then, I'd understand if one bumps down the time requirement in order to reduce their number and, therefore, lag. But that's a fringe problem.
     
  6. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,864
    x3 inventory absolutely requires building/grinding ships as well, even 10x does once your project gets to a certain point. On 3x the second thing I built after a miner was a combined welding/grinding ship and I've upgraded to a larger/more ergonomic version three times, as well as built some drones for tight spaces and other specialty welding jobs

    x1 refinery speed is not viable in the long run. On 3x I'm up to 30 refineries on my mothership, plus 70 furnaces. And another 10 refineries and 30 furnaces on my mega miner and I still can't easily keep up with the ore load required to feed my ore cannons and packrat tendencies. Definitely taking a performance hit at that point when everything is running full tilt.

    I don't mind x1 assembler efficiency on the other hand because between piracy and actual welding time I'm almost never bottlenecked waiting for parts. Mining however easily overflowes my storage and refineries.

    Not everyone plays on a dedicated server and has the advantage of 24/7 operation of their stuff either.
     
  7. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    I like 3x inventory, 1x assembler and 10x refinery.

    I find the refinery speeds normally are just hideous when dealing with the more stubborn to refine metals and my mining solutions would end up needing several hundred on regular speed. It ends up being a lag mitigation move for me to just up the speed instead of spam more refineries. The inventory is similar in that the mining solutions use a lot of storage so I can either spam 3x the containers or go ahead with an increase and not have to go quite so storage crazy.

    Assemblers I manage fine with 1x. I build a dozen or so and it sorts itself out just fine at 1x.
     
  8. Maegil Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,633
    My interest is more in designing stuff, so I seldom play in survival, but when I do, it's 1x1x1.


    EDIT: any similarity with a certain meme was purely accidental.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2015
  9. Thoran Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    20
    I'd recommend 3,3,5 (Assembler, Refinery, Inventory) as settings with the reason being server load and start time.
    The consequense of 1,1,1 and similar low settings is simple. The game start is very slow with hours of grinding for resources then gets out of control quickly with 20 refineries, 20 assemblers and a large drill ship with 30+ drills that each player owns because they know how build essential stuff fast to reduce their wait times.
    Keeping assembler and refinery effiency half decent will reduce the players needs to build many of them thus reducing server load. It will also make those large drill ships pritty pointless or used very rarely. If people still build them you have a reason as server admin to delete or disable their stuff since the world provides them with plenty.

    The larger inventory is to make the start less painful and be able to replace blocks without having to run to your welding ship every few seconds. More of a personal convenience I think than and real obstacle for skilled builders.

    As a side note: Grinding & Welding speed on 1x, Hacking on 0.3x.

    In the end it's all about your personal style of play. Do you want to encourage piracy? Make mining hard. Do you want a mining world? Make mining rewarding and piracy hard. Do you want huge ships or just very small stuff that people will cry for hours if they loose it? Tweak the settings according to your world needs.


    EDIT: You want proof for my server load theory? Look at the second post page 4 of this thread, RTM shows us what a 1,1,1 world will result in.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2015
  10. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,864
    I think the only logical progression with a 1x or even 3x world is that you need to have refineries and furnaces whose production speed upscales with the amount of power you push into it via slider on the control pannel.

    For eg, at the minimal levels you can slow your refinery to .25x or .50x of current vanilla power consumption and it produces at .25 or .50 the rate, on the flipside you can crank up the power input to 10x and it'll go 10x as fast.

    Frankly, building more refineries isn't a challenge, nor is the extra ship volume required a real design issue. When you get to the point of needing 20+ refineries, you can probably squeeze in another 20 into that ship. The issue is quite simply the hit to simspeed, which makes mega construction impractical on a 1x world.
     
  11. Zylithi Trainee Engineer

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    22
    1x is perfect for me. It's a real challenge to build anything and get anything done. Slower ore gets refined overnight. You're always short on resources, so everything must be carefully planned out beforehand.

    And, best of all, everyone else is just as challenged as you. I don't have to worry about anyone dropping by in a death cube solopwnmobile, because chances are, they have a rickety barge just like me.
     
  12. Two Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    300
    I started at 1x/1x/1x but when I found myself keeping the game running over night just to refine my ore, I switched to 3x refining.

    I tried a 10x server, but I don't like the speed. You get everything so fast that the game is over before it begun and everything seems to loose its value. Lost a ship? Takes one second to refine and build the next. In addition many incentives to build certain things are destroyed with higher settings, i.E. I wouldn't have to build 10 refineries (and gather the material and protect them because they are expensive) if 1 does the same and can be rebuilt in an instant if I have to. Similar I don't need a station or a big ship if I can fit everything on a starter ship. It even destroys PvP imo, as enemies don't have an attack point and you don't even need protection if you can just evade everyone.
     
  13. Burillo Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    648
    i've always played with increased refining speed and assembler efficiency, because of how much time it took to do anything. however, i've recently started playing with 1x refining and assembly speed, largely due to not being bogged down in minutia of ore management any more. it's amazing how much more playable and fun the game becomes at realistic settings when you don't have to micromanage every little thing because a script does it for you. so i now joined the "hardcore" club :D

    as for inventory sizes, that's what the "tech tree" is for. build a projector. build a small drill rig manually. build a welder manually. build a bigger drill rig using a welder. build a bigger welder using smaller welder. build an even bigger drill rig using bigger welder. none of that "i have to go to storage for every heavy armor block". no need for increased inventory sizes. want more storage? build more storage, it's not that expensive, especially once you have a good drill rig going. want faster ore refining? build more refineries. want faster assembly speed? build more assemblers.

    that said, i only play SP or 2-person MP so what do i know...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2015
  14. Falconius Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    Refining x3 and welding x5, mostly because refining is such a bottleneck even with a plethora of refineries and furnaces. And realistic welding just slows constructing things down pointlessly, it's already slow enough with planning and redoing.

    The inventory for storage is fine except that if there was an option to increase character inventory only I'd probably use it. It does make building a welding ship that much more of a priority though so...
     
  15. Xanatos Trainee Engineer

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    81
    Refinery at x10, grind & weld at x2, assembler and inventory at realistic.
    My current playstyle also limits me to small welder and grinder drones that can fit inside corridors,
    so x2 welding/grinding is hardly even a bonus especially when you need to make more trips due to only having one Medium Cargo Container per drone.

    I also test and build ALL of my creations in the same Survival map, my first ever station. If I screw up, it's for keeps. Manual saves for bug-related explosions though.

    I find it a lot more fun to manually adapt my station to new ideas or mod additions than trying it out in Creative first.
    It adds so many hours of playtime when you're rebuilding sections in new, better looking ways without pre-designing them!
     
  16. George Armstrong Custer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    grind/weld at 5x, or else it's tedious.
    inventory at 3x only because the player inventory at 400l becomes tedious.
    everything else at 1x,because it creates more problems to solve.
     
  17. entspeak Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,744
    I tend to work by myself, so I up the weld/grind x2, I put inventory at x10, but keep everything else realistic. I like a challenge, but working by myself it's hard to get anything done with regular inventory and grind/weld.
     
  18. knexfreak32 Trainee Engineer

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    25
    I play with 10x inventory, realistic welding\grinding\ass. efficiency, and refinery speed, then 10x ass. speed. (God danm you construction component)
     
  19. functional Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    41
    Right now, to be honest, it doesn't really matter. 1x1x1x pretty much is the same as 10x10x10 as in, it only takes longer essentially to get to the point where no significant difference exists. Having 1x inventory size is bit annoying though for placing blocks for the ships with welders to handle.
     
  20. Zourin Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    142
    The fun part about engineering is using form for a function. I play on Asteroids and 1x inventory and I have no trouble mining faster than I can process at 10x refinery speed. I saw I already had a collector and a gravity generator. All I did was use 1-plate scaffolds to build a funnel around that collector and I was able to quickly gravity mine with the lifeboat.

    Beyond that, the absolute basics of SE play revolve around the small mining ship and the welder ship. These are the workhorses that do the jobs (and do so with minimal risk of dying). When you've got a large reactor to build, you don't walk up to it with a screwdriver. You use heavy equipment. This means blueprints and planning, making sure you can get to things like large antennas, reactors, and station batteries with a welder ship before you close off the room. Nothing is rougher than realizing you need to get a welder ship down a 1x1 hallway, or worse, an already finished Corridor tunnel.

    That said, I initially roll on 10x refine speed and 5x assembler speeds so I'm not afk'ing for a day waiting for uranium or platinum to refine. I eventually crank these down to 1x, but the point is that you're really on EZ-mode if you think one of each is meant to handle long-term, large scale production. Use the assist modes with assemblers (especially now that you can pipe out the components) and things get done fairly quick.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2015
  21. EngenheiroDoEspaço Trainee Engineer

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    66
  22. WardenWolf Junior Engineer

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    556
    Refining definitely needs to be x10. You can't conceivably build enough refineries to keep up with even a small mining ship at x1. It's really quite awful.
     
  23. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    361
    I like x10, I play the game to build with friends not watch a welder or grinder for 20 minutes. If I wanted to do that I would go out to the back yard and use my real welder and grinder. That and I don't always have a great amount of time to play so wasting a bunch of it waiting just limits me even further. I guess if I had a ton of free time I wouldn't mind so much.
     
  24. Tinyboss Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    37
    First off, the only correct answer is, "the way you personally enjoy most". That said...

    I've had SE for a long time but never spent time with it until my current game. It's single player survival, Lone Survivor start, all 1x. Yes, it was a bit slow getting started, but it was such a thrill first time I mined with a mining ship, and (especially) welded with a welding ship. I think the fact that those tasks are tedious to do by hand is exactly why it felt so good to do them efficiently with the ships.

    After about a week, I've built up to the point where I can go mine a million units of ore per trip and refine it all in a few hours. I really only do one or two trips a day, when I run out of a particular ore. Although a week is kind of a long time, it's been pure fun.
     
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  25. SpeedDaemon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    2x inv, 2x assy speed, 1x assy efficiency (you can set assy speed/eff. separately by editing the save), 2x refining.

    The inventory limit on your engineer is really only an issue in the very beginning, and when you're trying to work inside of a large ship where you can't get a welding ship in. I wish there was some mechanic that allowed you to automatically pull parts from storage if you were close enough to a conveyor, or other special block that gave you access to the ship's inventory, so we could work inside without having to run a back and forth marathon.

    Now that we have projectors, though... I usually keep a projector onboard with a blueprint of the ship, and I have been known to take a grinding ship and just cut a huge hole in the hull so I can fly in heavy equipment, perform my surgery, then turn on the projector and patch it back up again. (which is essentially what they do IRL when doing major work on a ship) It's even more interesting now with the oxygen mechanic, because you have to install temporary doors/airlocks/bulkheads before you start your work.
     
  26. Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,334
    Personally I like mine to all be x10 but I have played servers on x1
     
  27. Koder Apprentice Engineer

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    216
    Another good thing to do when starting out is just make yourself a glorified cargo pod. Talking nothing but a cockpit/med cargo container, 1 thruster in ea direction, gyro/power, and then take that when you mine by hand. load it up and then fly back. If you are concerned about o2, just take an o2 bottle with you. I actually had 2 refineries and an arc furnace before I even had my mining ship.

    There's always more than 1 way to survive. I also think that default spawn ships are way too forgiving. If you want a better challenge, try asteroids scenario with a more difficult spawn ship on 1x.
     
  28. ThatDutchIdiot Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    31
    On solo survival, I started out on x10 to get it a bit rolling, but I turned it back down to x3. Really wish we'd get a seperate option for inventory space and character inventory space. I hate running back and forth 200 times to grab the materials on x1 hence I prefer x3 or more, but even on x3 the containers just become miniature black holes...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Fly Sniper Trainee Engineer

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    50
    Inventory: 1x - I like the challenge of not having enough space to store all of your materials, thus forcing you to build more cargo containers and make more mining trips.
    Assembler speed/efficiency: 3x - Assemblers are slow at making Construction components. 3x is good enough. If I'm playing on a Dedicated though, I prefer 1x efficiency, so I can make more mining trips.
    Refinery speed: 10x - There's one reason for this. Platinum.
    Welding/Grinding: 5x - Why would I want to waste 60 seconds or however long it takes building a refinery? It makes sense to me to spend more time building and less time welding. Grinding is boring, but I can understand using lower values for PvP balance.
     
  30. Dreossk Trainee Engineer

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    39
    Life is too short to not put it at x10.
     
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