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Rovers/Trains/Elevators

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by Tazoo, Oct 18, 2013.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Aurenian Apprentice Engineer

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    373
    There definitely needs to be some form of fast transport that you can build into the structure of a ship/station. Elevator/train items would be very handy. Rovers/forklifts are less needed, but could be handy if we can move cargo containers around a hanger bay.
     
  2. TodesRitter Moderator

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    2,098
    Flying cars <3 (joke)
    I like the Elevator idea because you can put your little ship in your huge ship on a other storey
     
  3. Helfy Trainee Engineer

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    11
    I really like the ideas of the train and elevator. A car would be useful in a ships hanger or on a space station.


    I already built a sort of hover car using thrusters on all sides and a base supported by landing gears. I use it mainly just for aesthetic purposes, but be been toying with the idea of making one ontop of my ship and adding weapons. It could be a mobile defense system.
     
  4. megamadgamer Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Perhaps a nice addition on the topic of internal transportation and one that would mostly apply to stations and carriers, why not use an enlarged conveyor system?
    Especially when combined with elevators you could setup these conveyors to move small ships or cargo containers through your station/carrier. Just land on the designated location, switch off inertial dampeners and engines. Then exit the ship, move to a terminal and indicate the bay you want to have the ship move to. Now I understand this might be a little far fetched, but perhaps this is something the modding community could look into aswel?
     
  5. Guest

    While we will have to wait and see what the conveyor placeholder is for, some reliable method of transportation around a station would be nice. The other question is movement of cargo containers. Will they implement crane arms, tractor beams, forklifts...?
     
  6. Vikingr Trainee Engineer

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    6
    I'd love to see a tram, but with the possibility of elevating the tracks. 2 in 1!
     
  7. GeneralApathy Apprentice Engineer

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    273
    As someone who has already installed multiple elevators in a 116k block ship, let me tell you, the lag can get really insane, even with a moderate graphics card at the lowest level of quality. Until the Devs work on rendering and optimization, this idea isn't too feasible.
     
  8. TrashMan Trainee Engineer

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    26
    For a simple solution...


    I can see two systems:

    1) a block similar to the ladder, but wihout the handles. Can be placed on the wall or on the floor. Inside that block you can place a elivator "tube" that you can enter and drive around. Simple and makes a good lookign elivator, but not so much for a train.

    2) A block that is basicly a rail system. Can be placed on walls of floors like like a light. On that rail you can attach either a elivator (1x1 block) or a train. These can manuver alongthe rails - basicly like a Minecraft rails+ minecraft, except in here you can place the rails on the wall and the "minecart" is glued to the rails so it can't fall of lightly.

    A good elivator design can probably work for both.


    the problem - elivators normally have doors and solution 2 would leave elivators lookign like open chasms. Unless you sorroundhte elivator with walls and put a door, but in doing so you are wasting 3x3 space on each level, kinda negating the space gained by an elivator.
    You can still do that, but a 3rd block would probably be necessary (a floor door box) ..

    Or some hybrid between the two.
     
  9. Mac D Junior Engineer

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    521
    I agree with kuro11 on this . Anyone interested should definitely look at the proposed block component drawings on the topic at that link.

    If we get those general [SIZE= 11.0pt]Mag Bogie and Mag rail blocks, and maybe some simple automation blocks, then making trains and [/SIZE]elevators will be simple. (We will also make Mythbusters-style rocket-sleds as well, along with a bunch of other useful, interesting, and/or very dangerous things)

    My approach to most topics on this forum is now.....


    • Give us more/enough generic functional blocks to work with (the current style that make building these things as simple as attaching the right blocks together in a sensible arrangement).
    • Well will learn how to put them together to make what we need, eventually.
    • If we get things wrong (and we often do the first few times), spectacular accidents happen, which is great to watch in sand-box mode.
    • Beginners can learn through tutorial videos, a future "help menu" , and by reading community forum posts. Maybe an in-game list of basic (official, developer approved) designs that work well the first time can be added post-alpha so that new players can just install (pasted in) a working standard elevator, turret, mining ship, etc, etc..... without having to construct/design it all block-by-block from scratch.
    • Advanced players then keep having more options to use the blocks for extra functions and create custom designs, which they are already doing very well with the limited number of functional blocks available.
    Anyone interested in this Rovers/Trains/Elevators topic should watch the video athttp://forums.keenswh.com/post/ring-station-ive-been-working-on-with-circular-gravity-6603024?highlight=train
    Someone did all this in the alpha, imagine what people will be able to build in the beta or final version.
     
  10. Ubiqanon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    84
    The challenge with elevators is the multiplicity (effectively limitless) of start / stop points. The devs would need to come up with a way in which each 'floor' of the ship/station you have designed can be identified, so that the lift would know where to stop on demand. You would need some sort of interface, that would allow you to both designate a point in the shaft as a 'floor' - point of exit/entry, and give it an identifying symbol, (for example, a number) and then your computer would need to tag the x,y,z, coordinate for which the designation is assigned.

    The alternative, which we have seen in other sand box games, is to create singe destination lifts, or create lifts that have some kind of interactive mechanism that can trigger a start or stop - say a button you can push or a lever that you can throw, once you arrive at your destination - provided that you are accurate and can activate the mechanism before the lift passes it.

    The block mechanics, i dont think, are the challenge to lifts - its the computation and memory requirements that make functional, multi destination lifts challenging.

    Dont assume I am not in favor of lifts, quite the contrary

    I feel I should point out that you can use the small ship design to currently build a functioning manual lift, of course you still have the issue of managing your destination timing, but the mechanics are already in place.

    I agree that some kind of monorail or grav rail system would be appropriate for large base / large ship construction. But again, using the new landing pad design, it is possible to create a ship that will effectively guide itself. I actually (within this posting) got into the game, and built a self guided vertical / horizontal 'truck' using the magnetized landing pads as guides - basically a horizontal (with connecting vertical) tunnel with the ship/truck designed so that the pads are as close to the walls as possible- basically turning the truck into a bullet. I did not test how this would handle changes in slope, as yet. Undoubtedly the 'truck' would not be able to handle a 45% change in slope, but it might be able to handle the ramp at reduced speeds.

    As with any such system, managing starts and stops, or lane changes, will add significant complexity. For me, the optimal solution would be a block that is grav link enabled - and another block - say something like the landing pad, that links to that block and keeps whatever vehicle is attached to it on the track. Something that allows for maximum creativity. We can already design the vehicles themselves, which I do not want to give up for some generic transport vehicle. Give me a monorail and the coupling link as blocks, and maybe some auto breaking blocks (to prevent end of the line rail accidents, and to serve as auto stops for stations).

    As to the rover, I am fairly against a whole lot of automation. I think, for the game to remain interesting - the engineers should be the only things that can build / create/ or maintain things. Having said that, I think the game is would benefit from 2 ideas that match this suggestion - the first would be an exoskeleton system - something like Elisium or the exoskeleton in aliens - that the engineers could use - which would house their tools, assist with manufacture / welding, etc. The second would be an engineer vehicle of some kind. And by that I mean i would want to build it myself - so basically I would want the parts for a small engineering ship. A ship mounted welder (allows me to place blocks from within the ship), a crane or claw arm (enables the multiple block placement features while within a ship), basically things that the individual tools will enable the engineer to do, but ship based versions. This idea is of course nothing new, as many science fiction films depict ship construction in outer space being done by vehicles as well as individuals in rocket pack suits.

    End of line.
     
  11. Jimx Trainee Engineer

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    6
    These idea's should see there way into the game. If not it would be something we are all missing out on. Using rockets to move things is sort of weird, pistons all the way!!!
     
  12. AustinVT Trainee Engineer

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    65
    Elevators. For the sole reason it takes way to much time to get from the top to the bottom of my station/ship then it does to get from the front to the back. Those stairs man... those stairs...
     
  13. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389
    One thing I want to point out..

    I know people have made functional elevators, trams, bay doors, but they would require allot of resources to make once survival/MP comes out, meaning that making them would no longer have much sense, but they are something that holds allot of practicality and functions....

    The other thing to point out...
    The ones existing are very susceptible to damage just in basic manoeuvres...

    And since 85% of the player base is obsessed with max speed/ no max speed...
    These marvellous engineering designs, and unless piloted with dampeners off by a very skilled pilot, they don't last very long at all....


    So although people have made them, the idea still holds its grounds ;)
     
  14. g4borg Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    271
    Tubeshafts + Tube-pods

    horizontally: train.
    vertically: elevator.

    easy. win win. use as futurama tube without pod. the easy way.

    ---

    however rails to allow an attached object to rail along (to create a train) would be awesome too.

    attaching small ship parts (or even a smaller type of building set) to a big ship as sort of a functional design (and optimizing such "furniture" to be less of an impact on the overall physics, and doing stuff while not requiring cockpits) would also make many of this things self-expanding (elevators could be built with rails, as can rovers be built if you have wheels)
     
  15. Blako Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    385
    My 600 ton hanger door is unscratched (of what I can see) in 30 openings/closing on my station. Landing gear can lock a moving (door, elevator, train) stationary during maneuvers of its parent ship, but I doubt repairing a carrier hanger door that has been rammed intentionally will be easy when both the door and door frame are distorted.

    I was going to start work on an overhead crane, but then I got distracted making diagonal doors.
     
  16. Ericius11 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    463
    I think a car is the most important thing here. What's a train, other than a glorified car on rails? And what's an elevator but a car that goes up and down? I think they should make cars a new entity like the big and small ships. Cars can be affected by gravity, but have the advantage of wheels, allowing them to travel across surfaces without damage. Doing things this way, we can get all the stuff we want without worrying about whether it's a car, train, elevator, or something else.
     
  17. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,930
    I think this is a fantastic idea.

    Of course, the grounded vehicles won't work without gravity, but why would you try driving one way out in space anyways?
    The way I see it, they'd be used for Station based transportation. Like a Golf Cart that can ferry you more quickly around your massive Space Mine Castle.
    Or a small tank to show them pirates what for.
    A flatbed for hauling blocks and cargo from one side of the station to the other.
    A heavily armored mobile gun emplacement for defending a large ship.
    Of course you could still equip them with thrusters so they can maneuver in space should they fall off the asteroid or get knocked off a station platform.
     
  18. tharkus Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    712
    ive voted for CAR but what i really want is
    that the developer deesign wheels and a artifact to make small ships affected by gravity generators.
    that way we could have custom cars for transport.
    THE ELEVATORS; we can make em with small ships and work great now.
     
  19. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389
    The elevators made now do not work 'great' they are very leggy and very awkward to use...
    They are risky in movement too....

    I think rail system...
    It would add an element for use as elevator, train, bay doors etc etc.


    Cars are too reliant on Gravity....
     
  20. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,930
    Which is why they would be great for stationwide transport.

    I know it's not a big deal right now, since most people aren't building Halo rings, but gravity dependent, land based transport for larger stations will be ideal for like, multiplayer servers when the stations really start to get large.

    Plus, it opens the way for things like tracked vehicles and mechs.
     
  21. Evis Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    240
    Nice idea, I don't recall reading anything like it.

    Point taken we should have the ability to built it all, on a grand scale. From railways to rovers to cranes, and custom equipment. :)

    I'd look to team build this to help accumulate wealth on planets.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

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    1,930
    What asteroid mining colony wouldn't be complete without giant, oversized mining saws?
     
  23. Lo2k Trainee Engineer

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    15
    Yep, rails would be the best... a rail bloc that could be aligned to make long rail lines and a sliding bloc that could be joined to a small ship structure and that would only slide along the rail bloc with no other possible move or rotation.
    I assume we couldn't make curved rails but straight rails would be fine anyhow and could solve trains and elevators cases (but maybe not broken blocs for late stops)
     
  24. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,017
    I just finished hacking together a small rail transit system in a massive super carrier build I'm doing... Basically just built a small ship with cockpits on opposite ends (forward, backward), one small reactor, one gyro, and one thruster pointing forward, one thruster pointing backwards. It runs in a tube that I built down the spine of my ship to end and mid stations. Works pretty well, but not perfect - having a rail system or even using some conveyor-like mechanical blocks to allow creation of a rail car would vastly improve it, and avoid the pinballing that can happen when inertia gets misaligned.
     
  25. Comandersegz Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    94
    Very cool idea actually I was thinking myself what could be used for transporting through the ship/station quickly I have been experimenting with gravity generators to make a sling shot like effect to get from one side to another if it works ill upload it for everyone! :)
     
  26. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389
    Ohh If we had these seat implemented into the game, my dream could come true!

    I could finally make....

    A Stana Stair Lift!!!!!


    On a serious note I still support this idea
     
  27. Smeowkey Trainee Engineer

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    17
    You can already build 'elevators" and trams and other transportation devices. It's a bit tricky but you have to build very symmetrically, a small ship within a large ship. What I haven't yet tested is whether these small 'railed' ships are safe from harm while I am in control of the larger ship they are built into. Also there is no true and safe crash prevention while operating/stopping. Visibility is required to stop otherwise suffer the consequences.
     
  28. Sims_doc Junior Engineer

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    876
    I wouldn't mind this because it means we can put trains for loading fighters and small ships, build space elevators when planets are added and finally build all different types of cars, tanks or whatever we want.
     
  29. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389

    That's why we want chairs, this will allow transportation without collision damage :)
     
  30. Comandersegz Trainee Engineer

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    94
    AGREED^^^^
     
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