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SE - Abandoned/Finished

Discussion in 'General' started by Dragonspride, Apr 1, 2018.

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Should Keen Release SE as open source if they abandon it?

  1. I agree

    49 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. I dissagree

    34 vote(s)
    37.4%
  3. I don't know

    8 vote(s)
    8.8%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    • Like Like x 1
  2. xphoenixxx Junior Engineer

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    Well not having read through all 9 pages of hysteria.. I can probably still safely say 3 things.
    1: Space engineers still has a team of programmers working on it. There is more staff assigned to SE than Medieval Engineers. They are still employed. No new resources have been allocated who specialize in ground up game engine development - last I checked even the keen job vacancies page isn't looking for someone like that, and tha'ts usually where the first "hints" or "leaks" about upcoming projects usually get accidentally disclosed. (and deepflame and his code ninjas are still working on ME they dont have time either)
    2: The SE source for the most part is still on github; (although it is out of date, and lacks certain licensed IP content eg havok SDK; any person is welcome to git clone it and make a total conversion with it - so long; as blogged by marek, you give keen a heads up and get an informal ok to do so. Feel free to try to fix it all and make it better yourself.) Respected community modders can still discuss issues with Keen on discord; and sometimes maybe even suggest code for fixes. Ask any of them - most of them will confirm having at least one polite conversation with a keen devs at some point.
    3: Those SE programmers in point 1 are unlikely to be getting paid the last few months of 9 to 5 wages just to sit around watching cat videos on youtube all day - and the stated purpose for halting the weekly updates was because we the community kept complaining about updates being half assed and untested - so keen knuckled down and started a massive QA and improvement phase. Great we got our wish. Just be patient and enter the Ansel competition while you wait?

    Seriously all this just because some youtuber wanted some free clickbait publicity. Get some perspective. LOL
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,413
    Of course not, Keen is just a small indy games publishing company. Programmers (like other professionals) looking for a job like that need to look at large corporate or government positions.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  4. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    206
    Are you sure? Have you seen anyone of them in last months? :D
    --- Automerge ---
    Of course not...

    Cats are disgusting infested balls of alergens... Other animals are better. (Thats why I am not going anywhere close to Joel's infested den (read "office").)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 4
  5. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Petr Beranek You have a great point there...
    For that matter, I have not even seen anyone of you in the same room as Oprah... Therefor, YOU MUST ALL BE OPRAH!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    206
    Man, are you insane? You can't reveal such things so loudly! Well... you should prepare today's dinner for 20+ people as there is high probability some guys in black uniforms will come visit you through window this evening to silence you. :D
    Well... you won't enjoy the dinner much, but at least they will. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  7. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    460
    At least we are not in denial.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. xphoenixxx Junior Engineer

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    529
    Hard to see them if Marek locked them all in a dark room with a computer, and nothing but bread and water until they finish the next update..

    It all becomes clear now.. that's why they got Joel the cat.. so the modellers could copy it *nods*
    Plague carrying exploding furball Cyber-Cats that leave paw prints, scratches and fur all over the windows confirmed?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    111
    Last update was more than two months ago, if they were able to add an update every week during four years, it is supossed that they havenĀ“t lost a second testing microupdates and they have used every day sice two months ago to improve the game.

    So in fact there are only two options, a really big update will be posted before summer or this game is abandoned and the programmers are wrking in small bug fixes and planning SE2
     
    • Late Late x 1
  11. Zuriel_Wolfe Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Or is SE abandoned, see
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Late Late x 1
  12. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,664
    @jaunetajabe It's a major. There's been months between all the majors. The only change is no minors = no interruptions.

    I have no reason to believe they're lying. There's nothing to gain but everything to lose. If they're lying, the truth will come out and then they're screwed because noone will touch SE2 (or whatever comes next after SE).


    I will judge as the releases come. They have something to prove now, especially since they refuse to say anything.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. Dan2D3D Moderator

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    1,004
    Hi @Zuriel_Wolfe

    I can tell you that the game is not abandoned, it's still in making and very close to be completed.

    and we already have a duplicate thread on this so I will merge yours with it.

    ______________________
    About me = I'm very permissive and kindness is the key.

    + I don't censor, all can share their opinion about the game.

    A Dev quote that I like :
    How to forum...
    1. It's a game.
    2. Take nothing personally.
    3. Report bugs, don't rant.
    __________________________

    It's not really a constructive thread on the game (feedback) it's more a question in my opinion but I will approve.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,216
    Whole problem with that video is that many things purported as fact are just wrong. For instance, Space Engineers is not a sequel to Miner Wars. The next game has not been called SE2 or any kind of sequel. MW and SE development have clearly been completely different.

    Censorship? Seriously? To what end?

    If they were resorting to censorship in order to... what, deny they are abandoning the game (as if that would even work) then this thread would already have disappe----------



    (((((*HEY! WHERE DID EVERYBODY GO?!?*)))))
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Sir_Kings_Alot Trainee Engineer

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    68
    When did MeowCaptain become an unbiased journalist.

    Also what is the current meaning of unbiased journalism? The definition has obviously changed since i learned it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,413
    Unbiased journalism : Journalism that agrees with your own preconceptions and ideas and has no regard for the truth. - Donald Trump.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    Took me a while to figure out how to stop Youtube from recommending meowcaptains clickbait crap. It was crowding out good videos. Just select "Not Interested" and Youtube gets the message.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

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    416
    Greetings

    Wtf? What the hell has a video about DRM complaints from a previous game got to to do with SE being abandoned or not? Not to mention the fact that its made by someone that so obviously has a personal bone to pick with a few individuals because his hump hurts. Here have a :beer: and relax.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    674
    @Petr Beranek

    I don't think you guys have stopped working on SE at all, but I do think you guys are looking to wrap things up. Fix what exists, maybe add a couple minor things, then call it good.

    I think the main problem is you guys named something "survival" mode and then made the survival part so incredibly easy and basic that it's over the moment you hit start game. I am sure it was a decision to boost sales, but you guys are either going to have to provide what people expect from a survival game or you're going to have a bunch of unhappy people. I don't think there are any other options.

    I personally would be happy with a survival mode with some actual challenges, a campaign, or a number of individual story missions(like escape from mars). Just one of those would be enough for me but I don't think that will happen. That's why I just hope that after(if) you guys get multiplayer to work that you slap together some simple battle mode for multiplayer, but I feel that even that is just wishful thinking.

    The total lack of communication isn't helping.
     
  20. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    Duly noted :tu:
     
  21. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    @Dan2D3D and @Malware... Long time, no see.

    So, after some heavy months working 12-14 hours a day I finally opened Steam, realizing it's been two months from the last update.
    You might remember me from way before, when this forum was a better enviroment and started to decay, I'm also very open with my opinions so moderators kind of hate me.

    As a consumer, KSH will have to prove to me that any other or next product will be worth the money. You have an abandoned game, a side game(Medieval Engineers) that have not been progressing much too, even with a "advanced start" built on improvements in engine and development from Space Engineers. KSH also invested some couple millions on a project that is not related to the game it sold and gathered funds from.

    This is not a question of good versus evil, to me seems KSH tries to do so much and never really finishes anything, if Space Engineers is really abandoned I will never buy anything from them again and I would argue they should be disquilified from selling games in the Early Access program on Steam.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. Arcturus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,649
    FTFY

    It is interesting how Youtube pushing/recommending those videos to people who look at anything else Space Engineers related is driving the current situation.

    What does that word mean to you? What conditions are required for non-abandoned completion?
     
  23. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    That term gets thrown about here so much....but I'm assuming you mean Miner Wars?

    If you mean Space Engineers, then I can understand getting that idea, having come back to it and seen months pass since the last update, given that prior to that it was weekly updates religiously. The fact that Keen has gone completely radio silent doesn't help at all.

    It's kind of hard to find the signal in all the noise, but Keen hasn't abandoned Space Engineers...they've just cut out all of the increasingly irrelevant weekly updates and now will just work towards massive major updates. We hope for good things, but no one knows what will be in them. We all just have to wait and see. Did I mention that Keen's complete silence about their development progress doesn't help at all?

    How do I know Space Engineers isn't abandoned? Well, it's pretty simple...nowhere did Keen indicate they were abandoning it, and this whole "looks like it's abandoned" thing is also the "looks like it's in-between major updates" thing. They look the same...long periods of time between updates. Only time will tell, but there is simply no evidence it is abandoned. And just for reference....Miner Wars is not evidence that Space Engineers is abandoned.


    Well, you could argue it, but not many people will listen, especially Valve. Steam makes every effort to tell you when you buy an Early Access game that if you aren't already happy with what the game represents at the time you buy it....then you shouldn't buy it. So as far as Steam is concerned, you've already gotten your money's worth whether it ever releases for real or not. I own lots of Early Access games that will never be finished....and some of them are pretty neat. *shrug* Oh well.
     
  24. X_Wing_Ian Trainee Engineer

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    Hate to break it to you but Medieval engineers is doing a lot better than space engineers also has a direction. The MP is more stable then Space engineers as it can hold up 20+ players with a steady 1.0 sim speed, take a look at their updates.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,413
    To be fair, the medieval 60,000 block structures are static castles, not spaceships flying at 100 m/s or more, and the players and NPCs rarely exceed the speed of a swift walk or at best a horse :D (also they don't have hundreds of conveyors moving materials, virtual computers running questionable code and updating dozens of screens hundreds of times a second)
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  26. X_Wing_Ian Trainee Engineer

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    61
    Even then it still has problems like after a while havok and grids start to be wonky, basically it has it's own set of it's problems but depends on factors.
     
  27. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    1 - The developers have to provide feedback or at least a status update on features being worked on.
    Saying they can't promise anything or won't provide information is not acceptible. 7 Days to Die has received it's last update more than 5 months ago, but their developers put videos on YouTube on a Vlog format talking about their work every week or so. I have my share of criticism towards The Fun Pimps from past mistakes they made, but on communicating the progress of work they are handling it better IMHO.

    2 - There must be a target on core features that need fixing, like for example multiplayer, make clear what is their target functionality. Stop throwing that you can't promise this or that, KSH is a business, you sold us a product, if you can't provide certainty to anything, just don't sell the product, because you're accountable to it, to your playerbase. Also, defining targets and milestones provide a clear line and define what will be done or not.

    3 - If conditions 1 and 2 are not met and the game goes by more than 6 months with no updates, then it's abandoned, no software developer spends this much time without releasing somethin unless that project had it's resources moved away.


    The evidence is their history, as I said above, they have a game that was abandoned with a pretty similar behavior, holding the news as long as they could until Space Engineers was ready to start being sold for "Alpha Testers".
    This is like a Ponzy Scheme kind of passion debate, people who are in the scheme will defend It's legality to the grave, those who are outside will warn about it, refuse to take part and be taken fun of, but when the pyramid falls no one will be smiling.

    As others have pointed out, Medieval Engineers don't have to deal with a lot of problems Space Engineers have to, they also started with a better developed engine, a knowledge base populated from Miners Wars and Space Engineers, so relatively speaking it's progressing slower than Space Engineers did when it was in the same development stage.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  28. X_Wing_Ian Trainee Engineer

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    I will accept that, yea they add add a mix of features and bug fixes on each update.

    Also I love 7dtd to and they have improved.
     
  29. Oskar1101 Apprentice Engineer

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    232
    @LFCavalcanti so for you every finished game is abandoned? I think here is your problem...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    Your sentence here don't make much sense, care to explain what you mean?

    I already explained what I mean some posts above.
     
Thread Status:
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