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SE - Abandoned/Finished

Discussion in 'General' started by Dragonspride, Apr 1, 2018.

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Should Keen Release SE as open source if they abandon it?

  1. I agree

    49 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. I dissagree

    34 vote(s)
    37.4%
  3. I don't know

    8 vote(s)
    8.8%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    814
    Yes you can.
    I am beginning to wonder about your quality requirements anyway...
     
  2. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    421
    First of all, I got the best Entertainment time/price ratio out of SE up till now from all games. This doesn't mean I'm happy with the state of SE. But it's also not so worst that I throw it away. I make brakes from time to time in hope it will get better in that time. And I saw a lot games of much more terrible quality sold as full price titel. No, overall I'm quite satisfied with Keens work so far.
    Here you should specify what exactly "abandoned" means to you. I understand abandoned as the company has no interest in the product anymore, doesn't monitor it anymore, quit spending money on webpages, does no longer support it and doesn't expect any mony out of it anymore and most prominently, gives a shit what other makes out of it. SO what generally is understand with abandone ware...
    There are projects that are over at the finishing lines, PC games don't belong to that kind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,861
    I think perhaps part of the problems here is that the meaning of the term "sandbox game" has changed the last years. I blame Steam and the rampant mislabeling. People are calling Skyrim a sandbox game for crying out loud.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Matterom Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    What?, who in their right mind...
     
  5. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    994
    I guess Skyrim with the Suzy home maker DLC counts a teeny little bit as a sandbox
     
  6. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    Well not really. For it to be a sandbox you need to be able to furnish the house in more than a few ways and actually be able to place the house anywhere in the world which ofc is not possible. No its a catalogue at best but no not even a teeny bit sandboxish. Think you just proved Mal correct lol.
     
  7. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    Oh don't get me started. Its like the 90s all over again when they started calling the Final Fantasy series Roleplaying instead of Adventure.

    This is why I always say the developer makes the game they wish to make. The player either likes it or doesn't. Keeps things simple.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    285
    Okay, I was the one who called Skyrim a sandbox, but in my defense if you open up the Steam store page for Skyrim...

    You do have "sandbox" in its tags. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,861
    @Tenzo Note you're looking under "popular user-defined tags"... And yeah, that's exactly the problem right there.

    Also... Dark Fantasy? Really?

    Also to be fair, you're not the only one to call Skyrim a sandbox. There's a reason I said "people" and not "that one person" :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    well a kid stabbing a heart with an iron dagger laced with poisonous petals because he wants to summon a dark brotherhood assassin to kill his previous caretaker seems pretty dark doesn't it?
    i mean where'd this kid get the skeleton?

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  11. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    285
    Hehe... :D Yes, would hate to be "that one person".

    I just clicked the + on the right of the first three tags that show up on the page (under the title description)... Then it gives you the full list of tags. Oh well, I still blame Steam. :p
     
  12. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    I still chuckle sometimes when people get their panties in a twist about SE and then theres Star Citizen :D:D it makes early access on Steam look like a nursery lol. There is early access and then there is Star Citizen levels of early access. Oh and shame on you for those Skyrim tags :eek: lol jokes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    850
    No, you can`t.
    There are games where it definitely is viable to use hours. AKA; builing games like SE and sandbox games.

    But then there are extremely short games that are nevertheless teeming of quality, games that you absolutely enjoy while they last, but are short lived in comparison. Most linear single players, no matter how well made, won`t be able to hold a candle to a MP games, RPGs, OpenWorlds and Sandboxes in play hours.

    But you wont go and call the first Bioshock crap because you didn`t get more than 48 hours out of it. And that`s still a rather "open" linear game. Or FEAR, or many games which are of quality, but you wouldn`t neccesarily see it in play time.

    And if it`s about Price/playtime.

    Then Warthunder would reign king with me, SE wouldn`t even be able to come close, I got way more mileage from WT than SE, and it was even free. So by your standars WT would be invariably better, yet, for me its the opposite.

    WT is a PVP game which is incredibly unfair, potentially wasting time, it made me absolutely livid most of the time, the teams do not help, its simply a terrible experience all around. Nevertheless, I persisted, because I wanted to do something expectacular, save the match and win. And I made it plenty of times, but after a thousand matches in a single warplane, only 5% of the time was what I wanted, most others I ended up disappointed or annoyed at myself or outright pissed at the game and what it allows.

    That 5% I wanted just kept me running into the same unpleasant result, yet I didn`t break free for a lot of time.
    It was a rather awful experience, and I would DEFINITELY not recommend the game, not because they can`t play it a lot, but because its addictive but a terrible experience in the end.
     
  14. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    684
    I played war thunder for a few hours, till I saw that it was a pay to win grindfest.

    A lot of my favourite games are ones that are shorter. Dreamfall, life is strange, the first new tomb raider, alien isolation, these are all games I have fewer steam hours on but I recommend well above SE. A lot of my hours in SE are AFK hours to see if my builds function without exploding and such too. I completely agree that hours with the game running does not equal quality time spent.

    I am not saying that SE wasn't fun to mess around with and I have had some quality hours, especially when I first loaded the game and had a hard time surviving in the banana boat because I had no idea what I was doing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    850
    Damn, I just remembered AVP 2. Such an awesome game. Not too short, but only because it had three campaigns and its setup was great.
    In the mod side of things, not all HL2 mods are long, but they can be extremely well made and sit well on one`s memory, even if they were only one level.
     
  16. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    684
    I loved the first AVP as well with the marine that could run at like 20m/s. I still load AVP up once in a while because I love how hard it is.
     
  17. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    438
    I really don't understand why people are acting like SE is about to be abandoned. In the Q&A he talked about up to 2 more years of development. That's more than enough time to clean everything up and flesh it out a little more.

    Then there's the repeated mention of surprises. Also, am I the only one still giddy at this?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    Because people whine and bitch thinking that SE is only for them and when it doesn't do what they want it to do they go out and tell others its rubbish because of their personal experiences when in actual fact they have some seriously skewed internal wiring and can't see past that they actually be doing something wrong and its they who are wrong and not the world. It is actually worrying how this way of thinking is encroaching on a lot of topics these days. Pick up a toy and understand it inside and out don't just rattle it, figure its broken and throw it away. Some people have not grown up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  19. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    994
    I dusted off my old Atari800XL the other day, just to make sure the 5.25 floppies were still good (1981-83 filedates and still kicking) n stuff... ok, maybe to play a little Joust and Montezumas Revenge after watching Ready Player One.. but it reminded me of "the good old days" regarding play value..

    Ultima IV.
    https://www.gog.com/game/ultima_4
    OMG. Runthrough playtime to "win" it? easily MONTHS. I'm actually curious what kind of "speed run" time this game took.
    The rez was painful on a 32" 4k TV [so im not over eager to ever want to respend those months], but I recalled the utter... depth of the game provided.

    AAA titles of today just... dont even want to be at that level.

    #KidsTheseDays ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,994
    Preach it, brother! I’m so mad I can’t talk!!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Logi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    170
    Giddy about internal tool to make the trailers look like theres NPCs or large scale very coordinated and functional multiplayer action?

    That actually quite nicely summs up why I have grown more and more annoyed by the direction of SE. They are putting quite a lot of effort into making the videos and screenshots present SE in a completely different light than what it is. It's one thing to enhance the pictures a bit, but to spend time creating a tool just to promote SE in a way that doesn't at all represent what the gameplay is or what Marek intends it to be, that's just false advertising.

    Offline rendering to make much more complex scenes work smoothly in videos and replay tool to let one player make scenes look like that smooth complex scene has AI NPCs or lots of players in it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  22. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    As I see it those are tools that content creators will like. We have had a few mission on the workshop and i'm betting those that find it interesting will use those tools to perhaps add NPCs to their scenarios. My view has been that Keen is eerrr always keen on making sure others can make their own content for players. I'm sure they'll add their own content as we've seen with the first chapter of a story if you like but fixing bugs etc has probably taking priority over the next chapter etc of SEs campaign.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,368
    I have around 7000 hrs in the game. I'm sure at least a third of that time was spent sitting and staring at the load screen. Much of the rest was spent undoing damage done by an update. Much of the rest involved trying to get my ideas to work. I'd be lying if I said all 7000 hours was all fun and laughs. I can NOT, however, attribute all that time to hanging on and waiting for the game to turn out like I wanted. The game turned out like I wanted when I bought it. It already does what I want it to do e.g. I can build spacecraft that function. That's the game that was advertised, that's the game I bought, and that's the fundamental thing I do when I run the game. After 7000 hours I'm still getting the hang of it. Anyone that says they have done "everything" after a couple hundred hours has no grasp of what can be done and plays with a single goal that's usually relatively easy to achieve. This is the mentality of someone that buys an $80 AAA title simply to "beat" it in a single sitting. Well, you can't "beat" SE and that has some people confused and upset. They want Keen to put in stuff that makes the "struggle" more prolonged in order to make prevailing (surviving) more of a goal to achieve (and perhaps get a medal for it). SE was not built that way and that's why it disappoints as a "survival game". That's why so far no one has come up with a compelling scenario that involves the hero engineering a solution to the problem presented by the antagonist. Any other game that has the player constructing something in order to complete a mission or objective has everyone eventually constructing the same solution, which has to be the only solution that works.

    On the other hand, my 7000 hours has been spent trying to find out what kind of ships I should have and what would be the procedure for working a claim. I don't play the "survival" game that involves crashing on a planet and trying to get back to space. I play the "succeed and prosper" game that involves space engineer/miners locating a claim and mining it efficiently, and protecting it if necessary. Honestly, I didn't think it was going to take this long and, as it turns out, getting it "right" is going to take a lot longer.

    In any event, all I ever really needed from SE was the ability to make spacecraft that do what I want. It delivers that in spades and what I don't get from Keen I get from Modders. Neither group has stopped improving my ability to make the spacecraft I need or to have them do what I would like them to do. At worst the only problem seems to be that whatever I build ends up being big. Not the end of the world.

    Don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't want more or believe the game is "finished". It's just that SE is unique and you can't really compare it to other games. It's always, "It's sorta like this game and kinda like that game but..." and it's easy to wish it was more like those other games, but then SE would disappoint because it's just like all those other games. KSH seems to be the only group that knows what kind of game SE is and even though they made it explicitly clear from day one we keep calling it something else and then complain because it fails at that. SE can work like those other games but it will never be those other games. Funny thing is people seem to want to play those other games using SE because SE provides the freedom the other games don't.

    Making "clever devices" in space. That's Space Engineers.

    Now, go play.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  24. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,997
    Still not sure about all this spin on a SE2 coming out "soon", which would only make people scream "Miner Wars all over again." it would not look good on Keen to do that in the near future. (Just my opinion).

    If there is or will be a SE2 I doubt I will buy it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,955

    Keen will promote the release. But at the end of the day, if you enjoy building spaceships... great. If you want a competitive GAME that you can play on a server... meh... not so much. Sure you can load it up with user created mods and hope that everything works. But as far as the vanilla game actually being much of a game... no. There is a collection of features, but they don't integrate into a game... or at least one that's challenging or entertaining.
    --- Automerge ---
    I would only purchase an SE2 once it's a gold release based on previous Keen experience.
     
  26. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    438
    That's exactly what I'm hoping for. Plenty of us have been saying that we like the game and can endure the bugfixing process, just give us more challenges. The more tools like that SE has, the more amazing the content fans will create.

    I'm optimistic, but not expecting any of the "surprises" for SE to actually be that exciting. It's the progress on the campaign tools that I watch for. When they get in a good state, that's probably going to be the next big spike in player population, though obviously not as immediate as planets was. Clever challenges, structured PvP, co-op story modes; these are what I'm looking forward to next more than anything. Unlike other dreams for the game (shielded underwater laser-ladders), the campaign tools are already part of the game, though probably the most incomplete part. It's just the question of NPCs that determines how cool the campaigns can be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  27. Arcturus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,649
    Just hanging out with the clones:
    [​IMG]
    Space Engineers ModSDK can currently do replay and one of the debug commands allows you to switch characters. Unfortunately there is no position reset after replay, and loading game removes the clones. More effort or playing with settings would be required to get results on par with KSH.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  28. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,368
    Did they say it was going to be out "soon" or did they say they were going to start on it (or something) "soon"?

    Not sure what spin Keen or Marek used.
     
  29. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    SE2 was coined in an offhand remark about how they approach backwards compatibility. But this was back in 2015. SE2 is not a thing unless KSH says otherwise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,861
    The word "soon" hasn't been used. It's just another rumor. I may have misunderstood this so take it with a pinch of salt, but I think he even said that their next game wouldn't even be early access based at all, which would definitely rule out any kind of "soon". That was just a side remark that I might have taken out of context, but I kinda hope this is correct. Anyway he was adamant that SE would be finished first.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.