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Serious talk... Scratched and "damaged" blocks.

Discussion in 'General' started by LFCavalcanti, Aug 11, 2016.

?

Do you like the new textures being scrathed and/or damaged in some areas?

Poll closed Aug 25, 2016.
  1. Yes, I like the textures showed to us until now.

    25.0%
  2. Yes, But I think only metallic parts should be scrachted.

    20.5%
  3. I don't have a preference on this.

    4.5%
  4. No, let me choose if I want them scratched or not.

    38.6%
  5. No, textures should be all undamaged and shinny once created.

    11.4%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Again, it's a matter of priorities. That's a ridiculous amount of work to implement for such a minor feature.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  2. Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    Why don't they just change the texture of blocks based on the damage the block has taken... So shiny and new is shiny and new, while old and worn is old and worn.

    It's not a lighting bug with windows, if you delete both the blue haze and the scratches, the windows won't glow. Also switching a texture for a specific block doesn't consume a lot of system resources. In the end Keen's view for where this game should go is fairly irrelevant, as at least a third of the game is editable with notepad.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  3. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    I think the best option would be to have a worn check box in the paint menu. Basically dirt and scratches or not. I personally like the scratches and dirt on metal blocks because it makes them feel more like metal and less like plastic or fiber glass. Then if you want to go one step further if you pick the non worn version and take damage they become worn until you repair them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,214
    this textures are super fine, is not like the windows at least. The paint scratches on the sharp edges are realistic and look really good, also the dirt, and oil stains on those armors blocks
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Why bother?

    Again, that's a lot of work for a "feature" that comes down purely to personal taste in aesthetics.
    --- Automerge ---
    ...nothing you said indicates to me that the impenetrable smear isn't a lighting glitch to do with the window texture. In good light, the scratches don't obstruct vision very much at all- hence, the "snot smear" effect seems to me to be something to do with funky lighting interaction with the texture.

    As for the latter half of what you said- if Keen is so irrelevant because of how easy the game is to mod, I'm sure you'll be happy to stop complaining about the dented textures and just make/wait for the mod that adds in this gradual decay, hm?
     
  6. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Well what do you expect when you start a topic that doesn't have a right or wrong answer, just opinions.
    Being as opinionated as we all are here, it's just big juicy flamebait.
    And on patchday no less, when everyone is extra cranky.
    You been here long enough to know better my friend :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  7. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    Yes/No polls are not allowed by the forum rules, so I have to ask opinions... furthermore, is it really that impossible to write an opinion without rage? h:p
     
  8. SF-1 Raptor Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    740
    As a Star Wars and Firefly fan I like the dents and scratches.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Yeah, I still don't get that. Yes/No polls would probably cause less arguments.
    It doesn't seem to be the opinions where the rage starts. It's the opinions of other peoples opinions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Lt_Duckweed Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    417
    NO itz not! ur wrong so i. Hate u?
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  11. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    Yes or no polls provide no constructiv arguments it's just one side saying they're right the other side saying they're wrong. No compromise, and there's no agreement between the two sides. Also opinions don't have to result in flame wars. Maybe if people stop attacking people and instead actually discuss their view and come up with a solution we wouldn't have this problem.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I don't have terribly strong opinions about scratches because I don't make interiors and most of my ships are black and ugly anyway so their degree of dinged-upedness isn't terribly changing the status quo.

    Adding distressing (dirt, weathering, etc) is a very common technique in modelling to make things more alive, more "detailed", etc, but it's something that can be very easily over used. If the glass thing is any indication I think Keen is at serious risk of over using it.

    If they insist on weathering it would be nice if it had a gameplay purpose: indicating low levels of non-deformation damage.

    It seems like the option to have weathering "on-of" would satisfy everyone and allow players to use weathering as a modelling technique to their tastes.
    --- Automerge ---
    Because it's not an aesthetic thing? It's a gameplay mechanic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Bruce LeedleLeedleLeedleLee Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    813
    Why are there no texture/model-packs yet?
     
  14. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Incorrect. You want to introduce a gameplay mechanic to justify your aesthetic preference. The game having a certain aesthetic is inherently neutral to gameplay- that you don't like said aesthetic and thus want the developers to spend time (which equals money) and effort on building a gameplay mechanic which allows you to circumvent that aesthetic is unreasonable.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  15. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Are you still here? We got it, you like the scratches.
    So toddle off and let other people voice their opinions.
    Move along, nothing to see here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    It's called a discussion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Don't you italicize at me!
    If it's a discussion you want, it's a discussion you'll get...

    What the hell were we discussing again?
    Oh yeah, scratches. So yeah, you like them and anyone who doesn't like them is wrong, no matter what their reason.
    Rotal is wrong for not liking them because she doesn't play the game the way it's intended to be played.
    Flak and Tank are wrong for not liking them unless they were used for a good purpose in game.
    I'm wrong for not liking them just cause I'm a jerk.
    Did I miss anyone?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Don't play stupid.

    "I'd rather the textures not be beat to shit" is an opinion I can respect, even if I'm pretty sure its one that wont be acted on and I'm going to say so.

    "I'd rather the developers waste precious time adding in a whole new mechanic solely so that I can have shiny textures" is one I can't, because its stupid.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  19. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I want to introduce a mechanic, because otherwise it makes zero sense that my brand spanking new ship looks like it's been run through a sandblaster.

    My ships seldom last long, they tend to meet fiery deaths, or require massive rebuilding because of netcode related collisions.

    They are adding weathering because it's a cheap modelling trick to "add detail".

    We already have blocks display status effects when they hit certain levels of damage. There is no new mechanic involved. There is "doubling" of the texture assets for sure. But so what. The game assets aren't bloated anyway.

    And most importantly: visible light damage is a useful mechanic for combat repairs: sometimes you can't see how badly a block is deformed because of general jankyness. It would be nice if it was visible via texture.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    It's called "abstraction". The game has a given aesthetic (dinged-up "used future" industrial), there's no reason to include the superfluous "fresh off the assembly line" one too to double their required art assets- it can safely be assumed ships are intended to wind up looking like that no matter what.

    And/or thats just the look they want for the game. Your point?

    Incorrect. Particle effects and stickers are a far cry from actual texture changes. Making it so the textures of blocks "decays" based on how long they've existed or how much damage they've taken is not an existing mechanic, and would waste precious developer time to go counter to their obvious aesthetic goal.
     
  21. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    @BlackUmbrellas @tankmayvin @Krougal How about all 3 of you stop arguing back and forth and instead find a compromise in the middle. Maybe check box in the paint options for weathering like I said, or maybe a better solution I or anyone else here hasn't considered. Arguing over who's right and who's wrong accomplishes nothing because no one is going to admit they are wrong. So stop wasting time and think; try to find a solution that makes as many people happy as Keen can within Reason.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  22. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Let me put this another way:

    The core mechanic of space engineers is mining fundamental raw resources and salvaging basic components to build brand new ships and crafts. That is the whole damn purpose of the game.

    You quite literally take iron, and manufacture brand spanking fucking new steel plates and tubes.

    How the hell does making everything look old and beaten up remotely match aesthetic to gameplay? None of my ships have survived long enough, and none of my survival games have run enough hours to justify my ship looking like it's an old hunk of junk

    People want some sort of "aging" because the notion of worn out crap is totally incongruous with the fact that most of our shit is rolling off the assembly line brand new.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    Well to be fair all these components are made by some make shift assembler you constructed so those could be manufacturing marks. In fact if you drop a steel plate on the ground you'll notice it has its own share of scratch and dirt. Just a little think I thought was interesting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  24. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Maybe, but not systematic damage on every panel on the hull...

    The assemblers are not "makeshift", neither are the refineries. Both are incredibly sophisticated pieces of technology to be able to do what they do the way they do it even allowing for gameplay abstractions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  25. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    We don't have to find a compromise. There's zero reason this game needs checkboxes or special mechanics for whether or not blocks are pristine or not- I'm not sure I can think of any other games out there that feel the need to devote resources to that. The game has its look, that's the look it'll have. If people don't like the stock textures, that's the perfect application of mods- people already have texture packs that clean up the glass, they can go right ahead and make/use ones to clean up the other textures if they don't like them.

    Pretty much this- our ships aren't made in a vacuum. Except when they are, and they probably attract all that free-floating asteroid dust through static charge.

    Either way: the game isn't about ships that look shiny and new. Its about gritty mining vehicles, so why not cut out the needless middleman and just commit to an aesthetic, y'know?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  26. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    just to add a bit to that, there is a serious difference in the amount of time it takes for a full strength "pretty" weld, and a quick "it works weld", this trickles down into aesthetics a great deal, clean ground/chipped welds look pretty, but theyre no stronger than the git 'r' dun weld that our engineer is likely performing

    as mentioned there are alot of general work/ tooling marks that can very easily appear on steel when you're working with it, heat, nicks, dings, impacts, (hydraulic) bends any number of things can make a pretty chunk of steel look well used, however in terms of structural a cleaned up component has no additional benefits
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  27. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Space engineer welders are magical. I don't think they leave messy welds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  28. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    ALL welds are messy until you clean them up (save for machine done welds) but you can also get into the difference between messy and sloppy, messy welds will hold pressure and provide a strong bond, sloppy welds will cause catastrophic depressurization under stress
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Dude. You squirt welder at anything in this game and it magically builds you complex mechanisms, repairs arbitrary battle damage or kills anything squishy nearby.

    If they figured out that sort of magic, pretty sure it'll do the most amazing weld-bead ever.

    Welders in the this game are SUUUUUPER abstracted. Making a shit mess of an assembly job is a level of detail that's frankly absurd.

    Also, if you use printers or ship welders, by defintion it's going to also be magic MACHINE welding.

    Also, I know how to weld. Thankfully this is game not IRL, because my welding is terrible.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  30. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Hey just cause you're a lazy welder who doesn't clean up after yourself, don't force that on me :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.