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Serious talk... Scratched and "damaged" blocks.

Discussion in 'General' started by LFCavalcanti, Aug 11, 2016.

?

Do you like the new textures being scrathed and/or damaged in some areas?

Poll closed Aug 25, 2016.
  1. Yes, I like the textures showed to us until now.

    25.0%
  2. Yes, But I think only metallic parts should be scrachted.

    20.5%
  3. I don't have a preference on this.

    4.5%
  4. No, let me choose if I want them scratched or not.

    38.6%
  5. No, textures should be all undamaged and shinny once created.

    11.4%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    For those of you that like scratched textures, you're ok. For those that like wondows, you're ok, you like hurting yourself, but you're ok. For those of you that like things to look shiny, you're ok. So for the last group, which I am a part of, delete the junk window textures in the game files. Also if the new textures are too scratched up to be appealing in their final iteration, I, or someone else, will gimp them clean and release them here so you can replace the default textures in your game. If you do this they will stay until keen changes the textures again. Best case scenario the artists will take pity on the third party and do it for us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    WHat I don;t get is why a discussion on scratched and damaged textures suddenly became a discussion on where Keen should be directing effort.

    That was never in the original post/poll....

    If it had asked if Keen should divert the effort of programmers from fixing the REALLY broken stuff like rotors and pistons, and improving netcode to the point where peope can forget about it....then I would say NO. In capitals, and possibly even in italics, with bold and ...just maybe...a larger font.

    If, and this was the question, I am asked if I like having all the textures making my ship look like it's had one careful owner and several really careless ones, and has been in use for 50 years in a junkyard, then I will say I do not. If I just finished building a ship, it should look ( to start with ) like I just built it. Not that I built it out of used parts salvaged from derelicts.

    Giving us the choice would be one thing...but making a ship age would be a cool mechanic if they could add it. It would add to immersion and it would add to the feeling of 'ownership' with a vessel. BUT I would never expect any time to be taken away from core gameplay to work on window dressing features. The current texture work is being done by their texture artist...who is not a programmer.

    I think the discussion wandered from it's original path into the assumption that demands were being put on Keens time, rather than opinions about what they are doing.

    Still DOES NOT let Keen off the hook for the horrid window textures.....
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Alwayssleepy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    33
    i like damaged object, but it's better that paintable scratch if want to want
    although i dont like large size texture
     
  4. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Because that's an implicit part of the intent of these threads- "what would you rather the game be like (and what you'd rather Keen make it into)".

    I'm not going to deny that Totally Realistic Decays That Dynamically Attract Dust wouldn't be cool, and maybe in a game not based around player creativity that'd be easier to implement. But its such a ludicrous, nitpicky issue to take that I cannot in good conscious support it being raised as a possibility for this game.

    If you don't like the textures the game uses, that's 100% what mods are for, not some elaborate system that lets your ships transition from factory-new to dinged up on a block-by-block basis.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    While a damage system or gradual wear-and-tear would be a fantastic compromize i, too, don't really need either of those. A simple checkbox in the color picker would suffice, and if THAT is too much work, simply not using scratches would be a serviceable alternative. But taking away the scratches from people who like them isn't even necessary because, realistically, there should be scratched and unscratched versions of the textures already; a lot is made about "taking time away from Keen", but, technically, adding scratches is more time and work (especially if they want to make them semi-random to prevent the problem of every glas surface having the same scratch-pattern) to the existing texture so they presumably started with a finished unscratched texture anyway. Plus the guys responsible for the graphics aren't the same guys who *ahem* try to fix Rotors and Pistons and Multiplayer.
    Worst case, most lazy scenario they give us 2 different variants of every block - 1 scratched, 1 unscratched - and don't fiddle with any checkboxes or mechanics at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    I already have my own modded textures, and models. What has that got to do with anything? I am fortunate enough to be able to do that myself. Not everybody is, and not everybody wants to.

    To use your own statement......"that's an implicit part of the intent of these threads- "what would you rather the game be like"

    Why not have an overlay texture add dirt and scratches. REfusal to discuss things the game might have will come when it goes into Beta and feature freeze happens. Until then....I would not pretend to know ( or state ) what Keen can/can't/will/won't do. Just what I would like. I do not pretend either to speak for anyone but myself. Helps to avoid mistaking opinions for facts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Or just use a texturepack.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  8. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    May i barge in on that one?
    I took the liberty to check SE's Early Access-description on it's Steam Store Page to swipe a little quote.

    I cut that down a little bit to clear up the 2 important points here: SE is in Early Access so that we can provide Feedback* and change the game for the better. This is not just us doing it whether they want it or not, it's literally what they tell us to do.
    Take Mister @Defonten here. He just thanked us for our comments (positive and negative alike). He has 1 post on this board and joined today. Now, maybe he's been lurking offline, maybe he's reading reddit or Tweeta or something else, but considering his idea of scratches being a good idea i'll be naughty, hazard a guess and guess that he didn't really know about the players' likes or dislikes for scratches. This is valuable feedback for him. This is what we're here for. "What would you rather the game be like" is not just a random question thrown around, it's our mission statement. And with everything being subject to change: that means unfinished, unreleased scratched blocks can become UNscratched if people speak out loud enough. And that's why they do.

    If they actually offered one we could talk about that, yes.


    * if i was a tiny bit more cynical i'd say "SE is in Early Access to finance GoodAI" but that would be silly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Surely your modphobia isn't so strong as to avoid texture mods?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    Is there a reason it wouldn't? Blocks in general and textures in particular aren't excempt from bugs (like the ever-not-fixed Armor Ramp parts that simply go invisible under certain, rather intended circumstances) so diluding the code in that regard isn't any better than in any others.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    Space Engineers - The core of this game is to manage resources to design, engineer and implement devices/ships/bases. Everything else in-between is a means to an end.
    Mining is not required, at least It wouldn't be if Survival was better balanced. I remember when they introduced cargo ships and pirates, if you were smart about it, resources could come from looting those ships, no mining was really required from mid to late game.
    That what a Sandbox is, the game should provide you with the tools to whatever you want with the world.

    Other games offer the possibility of installing texture packs, those textures are visible to everyone, also, this whole mess started because KSH thought it was OK to build scratched and dirty Windows. You can't really compare these problems with other games because SE is the first real game of it's kind, maybe No Man's Sky will change that, we will see today.

    Well, how about a "Scourer" tool? Using all that useless gravel to polish better the blocks, specially Windows...?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    Ignoring Minecraft isn't making it go away...
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  13. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    Hum, I played like 700+ hours of Minecraft, I don't remember it having any real Space elements, neither "wanna be" realistic physics. And believe me, I digged down some MODs that simulated space, but all under that "vectorial" movements Minecraft is famous for.:p
     
  14. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    SE boils down to Minecraft In Space. At the end of the day that's really all it is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    [​IMG]


    Seriously, are you having some issues with your personal life lately? I'm honestly asking, I've never seen you so angry before... you're more salty than me lately, that's saying a lot.

    By your reasoning every single FPS game is the same game... well COD and BF are the same shite nowadays, but you can't compare BF or COD with Arma or Squad, their mechanics are too far apart. Also by your reasoning, Space Engineers, Minecraft and 7 Days to Die are the same...

    SE is different from Minecraft as 7 Days to die is different than both.
     
  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    A texture pack shouldn't need any modded code. It's just swapping the image files around. That's it. If you want non-scratched textures, wait for/create a texture pack.

    Hardly. While I wouldn't directly compare Space Engineers to Minecraft (although I could), there was Starmade before it, and a whole slew of similar games afterwards- none of which feel the need to include overly complex/cumbersome dynamic textures to reflect how old a creation is. The "realistic physics" and 3D movement doesn't have anything to do with aesthetic design anyhow.

    (Plus, this may just be my experience, but texture packs are usually a client-side only thing, no? You download them to change your personal visual experience, not enforce them on all other players.)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  17. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    Probably because i don't throw serious fits unless i have a gamebreaking reason to be pissed. Forced Station Voxel Support is such a gamebreaking reason, thus i am pissed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Starmade is probably closer to Minecraft in space .... SE is a little less blocky and a bit more flexible.

    Ironically....the elements where SE deviates from the MC in S mould are the bits that cause the most issues. Rotors, sub grids and voxels.

    There were a couple of mods that attempted to operate sub worlds. The Archimedes mod worked well, allowing you to build ships/flyers that were blocks converted toa single large object. It wasn't blocks anymore though. It had to be converted back. As a result it wasn't subject to damage or modification unless converted.

    There was one mod that DIDg o the whole way and created worlds within worlds....where you could move a collection of blocks as an object, and still have block damage. Had some serious collision detection issues, but was massively promising. As well as never being finished.

    I still play minecraft. It's got a lot less moddable since they sold out, but it's harmless fun.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Helaton Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    208
    I'd like to see window deformation.

    100% - Clear
    99-66% - Scratchy current
    65-33% - Cracks
    33-1% - Oh **** cracks
    0% - Put on the helmet, you're gonna die.

    I would also like to see reinforced windows to go with heavy armor. (twice the glass, steel,metal grid)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Out of curiosity, how so?
     
  21. RedPhoenix Moderator

    Messages:
    817
    Guys, what is so difficult in having a decent argument over such a simple topic?
    The conclusion to this whole topic boils down to a very simple fact:

    It's KSWH decision, how they envisioned their game.

    If they want a dirty, gritty look: You will get it, if you like it or not.
    And as another user pointed out:

    You can always mod it :)


    btw:
    Stop flaming and baiting. If not, I'll close this thread for a couple of hours to let you guys vent off some hot air off your trousers.....
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  22. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    I want manual setting for scratches and how shiny texture is, same like colors have setting:

    No Scratches, looks like new from factory 0% |...............|...................| 100% Almost no color thx angry cats
    Will never reflect light on surface ( matting ) 0% |..........|........................| 100% Shiny like a sun or my bald-head

    If i understand it corectly: there is problem with multiple texture layers so... if they dont solve it, we will go midle way like update did show ( nothink against it, it looks good ), but i prefer customization over pre-made textures.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Capt. Favio Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    101
    Told'ya, its Keen decision, we don't get to pick nothing here, if you need a diferent feel for the game, mod it (even tho im against the scratches/worn out)... there is no point in this discusion because it will acomplish nothing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    Okay, back to focus...

    I agree and disagree with this statement. Because yes, it's their game, if they want something they will do it anyway, but if we don't like something it's also our part to tell them why.

    This game is in Early Access, as @Commander Rotal quoted in a earlier post here, we are part of their testing, they have clearly written in the Steam Store page they want feedback from players.

    I believe a single thread like this does a better job for the community to discuss such features than scattered posts in the Update thread, most of them being overly aggressive with something not even released to us yet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. Capt. Favio Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    101
    @LFCavalcanti I mean, i agree with you dude, dont get me wrong. But the thing is, there is a hired artist doing this, since god knows when, there is work already ongoing, and there is a historical reference for the style Natiq is puting in the game, by an executive desition. These is the type of things we dont get to "vote" in.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  26. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    [heavy breath]

    It's the last time I'll address this kind of argument...

    If they will listen or not, that's not the point of this thread... the point is to express your opinion if you like or not the scratched and dirty style of blocks they are designing. If you have an opinion on that subject, feel free to express it.

    If KSH listen to feedback or not is a different subject, please open a thread to discuss it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  27. Capt. Favio Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    101
    oh... ok :p
     
  28. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    While it could have been worded more diplomatically Phoenix didn't tell us to stop talking unless a proper flamewar breaks out, which is perfectly reasonable. Note that the thread would probably be locked already if he wanted it to be.

    This is a great idea and absolutely nothing will go wrong by doing this. Except wildfire. And mass bans all around. Yes will turn into No, Fire to Ice, Flesh to Blood, Innies to Outties, real old testament stuff, dead accounts rising from the graves, Cats and Dogs living together, MASS HYSTERIA.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  29. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    @Commander Rotal

    So... what is your opinion? Should it be optional...? A checkbox or some internal game mechanic to polish the blocks further after being crafted? Tell me more about the subject of this thread please.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  30. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,977
    I've already answered that:
    Short version: best option'd probably be a checkbox in the colorpicker. I don't see the point of scratches, other than intentionally making the game look worse, but I don't see a point in tying down resources in a new mechanic either.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.