Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Serious talk... Scratched and "damaged" blocks.

Discussion in 'General' started by LFCavalcanti, Aug 11, 2016.

?

Do you like the new textures being scrathed and/or damaged in some areas?

Poll closed Aug 25, 2016.
  1. Yes, I like the textures showed to us until now.

    25.0%
  2. Yes, But I think only metallic parts should be scrachted.

    20.5%
  3. I don't have a preference on this.

    4.5%
  4. No, let me choose if I want them scratched or not.

    38.6%
  5. No, textures should be all undamaged and shinny once created.

    11.4%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    842
    Things don´t need to be scratched to look good or be interesting.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.johnywheels.com/ford-mus...g-shelby-gt-500-eleanor-e26649e6d3166607.html

    Not a single scratch, and it doesn´t make it dull in the least.

    Plus, I´m not advocating for grey, dull cubes, a good paint job can be better than a sea of random scratches. And with that same paint and some design choices, one can emulate a thousand of diferent applications, from military, to civilian, to anything.

    But I get you :)
    --- Automerge ---
    Wikipedia is as good as its sources, sources vary in quality of course so it´s kind of in the limbo.

    Also, don´t bring the argument that because you know someone that is an specialist; that you are sure about what you say about the subject...

    I´m the son of a really passionate astronomer who loves it, I know more than the average person no doubt, but that does not make me a trustable source of anything I´m asked about it, and if I´m asked something, I´ll probably wont give an accurate answer, which is the only right answer. I know some things, but I can´t simply jump into a discussion of astronomy.

    And yes, there´s A LOT of trash up there (compared to normal space indeed) and the ISS doesn´t look anywhere near close what the new block textures do, and the ISS wasn´t just up there some 2000 hours, or a couple of years.

    It. Just. Doesn´t. Make. Sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    This is dumb. Pick up a fucking book then. It will tell you the same thing.

    Please provide me a single, actual, publicly verifiable source (ie not a friend we don't even know exists), that you are right and I am wrong.
    --- Automerge ---
    LOL @ the "disagrees" over publicly verified scientific fact.

    This thread has gotten dumb and needs to close.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,286
    Having your ships look pristine and perfect takes away from the realism. So I don't mind a few scratches on the metal parts.

    On the windows they're annoying and unrealistic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Anach Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    77
    It's not realistic to have perfectly shiny ships, unless all you do is sit them there to look at in creative. However, I understand some people want new looking ships, but with only 11% of the votes going this direction, I would say that changing the visual style of SE from gritty retro sci-fi to modern clean is going to simply be up to the modders. Also if it wasn't for scratched glass, you wouldn't be able to see it, unless it had some horrible reflective glare, then you wouldn't be able to see out, much like trying to see out your house window at night when you have lights on inside.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Logi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    170
    I like the direction they are heading with the blocks shown so far. Fits well with the theme of mining in asteroid field, that this game started with. I just wish there would be a way to build interioirs like in ME with different materials, as building everything out of metal blocks is extreamly silly.

    I don't like the window texture. It was great before (had a small dust layer on the outer edges).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Ribs Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    189
    you are comparing real life to video game graphics. i don't see your point, nor do i want to see it anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841
    I still disagree with you and the swarthy parasol. Mods are great. However, if it's not in the vanilla game then it's purely arbitrary if those textures will appear in multiplayer. Should blocks be new, should they be worn, should they come in different texture styles? Yes. All of the above and none of the above. Your argument is as valid as the idea that all blocks should be default grey and that modders should offer different color packs.

    This is purely aesthetics, but aesthetics are what bring the immersive value to the game. Having a few basic vanilla texture themes that the player can mix and match from opens up more design possibilities and greater satisfaction from those who spend hours/weeks designing ships. The graphical portion of the game is developing along a different timeline and seems to be ahead of the curve. Our ships may not work right, but they'll probably "look" right long before.

    Being able to choose different colors for our blocks is important; so is being able to choose different textural themes in vanilla.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    842
    If worn textures will be the way, perfect, I´m not advocating for shiny, chromated steel plates either, but it´s very, weird, to have it in some parts such as interior doors, a conveyor sorter... (which will be probably hidden from the view) and probably more interior blocks to come.

    And no, the realism argument is kind of a dead end, there wouldn´t be much non-penetrative marks on the frame like that if that was the case, most marks would be of very high speed objects impacting the hull and leaving quite different looking marks in the process (if we were to generalize aplications).

    Thing is to not over do it, because the thereshold to go from "little details" to "ridiculous" is very small, and very easy to mess up in the art department.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    To be fair, the new heavy armor lightly scratched texture is a hell of a lot better looking that that camo barf, which you also had to get rid of with mods or creative color palate choices.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    I liked the camo, personally. It was a neat look.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Echillion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,334
    I'll put my 2 penneth down:

    Yes I like the new armor and paint scheme as seen on the last update vid (1.148) and hope they do all the blocks this way IF their going to as good a job as the 1st 3 blocks and this is not another DX11 remodelling where nothing gets done at all? again!.

    No I don't like the scratched windows because they cloud my vision (even with my specs on!) and they look horrificly Bad and I wish they would go back to the either clear or tinted ones they had before! and don't say they cant do it or it'll take resources away its bullshit when the devs were beeping around with the windows they were changing it every week for over a month! (tinted,clear,slightly scratched,majorly scratched and then OMG! monstrously grinded pieces of crap!) This can be changed in 1 update and most players will be happy till the PBR windows come out and if their scratched to next sunday this will start all over again! probably?

    I,myself have over 2252 hrs ingame since I bought SE in Nov 2014 and all I've wanted is for the rotors,pistons and landing gear to work! I didn't want oxygen,hydrogen or their associated blocks and systems and I argued against planets as a waste of resources which they were!. I don't give a crap about the jumpdrive but there should be a small grid block for this as well but hey such is life! I don't care if the forum has a war in every thread arguing the toss over which way is better or who can get further up Mr Rosa's arse! I as someone whose paid for and played this game for 21 months just want 1 Thing! - For it to be finished and working properly as intended! So that I and my multiple friends can play SE either in Single player,Co-op or on a server without having major bugs or glitches or unknown limitations screw up our gameplay and enjoyment!

    Thank you for reading and sorry for the WoT!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,214
    decals.... custom decals... modeable textures
    problem solved, everybody is happy
    --- Automerge ---
    look at this dirty, scratched, worn out, station in space

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Shuro Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    114
    Where...is that from?
     
  14. Sarekh Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,178
    Soo, have we considered secondary colour texture saturation, yet?

    A secondary colouring bar for the scratches and the dirt, making it possible to adjust the worn look to the same colour as the main colour therefore concealing it. I know that technique from some games where you could change the sec colour to make armour pieces look new and shiny. I dunno how much performance that would eat, though...
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. WarWyvern Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    That or an opacity slider. Either one would be very agreeable with me and wouldn't require all of the textures to be reworked. Good thinking!

    Edit: Wait, I didn't want to get involved with this thread. Curse your perfectly reasonable proposal for dragging me down here!
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,214
    no idea, random google search
     
  17. Sarekh Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,178
    MUAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahurghh *cough*

    Actually, me neither, but opacity-sliders or secondary colouring textures might be something to appease both factions. Because I can see their frustrations with only having one option and I think it would be an awesome convenience feature. BTW I just remembered the first game editor where I first encountered that mechanic: The NWN I toolkit - A few less polygons on the models, granted that ^^

    Additionally: If you push the colouring of the current system to the extemes black and white you can already pretty much change the complete tone of the textures, removing the visibility of the camo on the heavies and the welding lines on the light armour blocks.
     
  18. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    It was suggested before, but some people think... creat hundreds and hundreds of textures you must download/creat is only way... then use secondary texture and sliders...

    Can some one explain: why is it bad idea, before it get 100x red cross ?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. WarWyvern Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    Well, off the top of my head: it's the difference between coding a new feature (color/opacity sliders) and just giving the artists more work (new textures/armor types). Coders tend to keep busy throughout a game's development, but artists are often let go or reassigned after the majority of assets have been completed. As such, giving them more work is seldom a bad thing, as long as they're not also coding. A new feature, however, would potentially introduce new bugs. That means even more work.

    That said, I still prefer the clutter sliders. Fewer textures means the game can potentially run a bit more smoothly and it keeps a consistent visual style while allowing further customization for the perfectionists out there. Overall, a better option, in my opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. noxLP Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    729
    Hey, (sorry for the offtopic:p) are you reffering to the aurora toolset? Can't remember that slider... where was it?
     
  21. LeoClarke Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    Silly question. I understand the argument against scratched windows, since they serve a purpose. While still functional, I do get a bit annoyed at the tinting and scratches of the windows. So, with all that in mind, why not just subscribe to a mod?

    Fixed the issue for me rather handily.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Sarekh Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,178
    Yeah, ye' good ol' Aurora ^^ - You could add different different colour groups to the armour pieces if you created custom armours - officially for metal, cloth and leather - if they had the same colour the parts would look unscratched. And for scratches they would use for example the leather slot - so if you left the leather brown the armour would have dark scratches on the metal parts. If that part was also left metal-coloured it would not show.
     
  23. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    Why should I have to?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  24. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Part about coding and bugs is true and it can happen, but normal texture can be buged too. Specialy when you use textures with surface effects, for example: moving texture effects.

    For artists its same like when he create 1 texture x2. He just must know how creat 1 texture in multiple layers like:

    1.layer- color less armour ( basic texture we will see all time + on this texture is color added )
    2.layer- scars / defects ( you make scars more or less visible over armour texture )
    3.layer- glow on surface ( just making it more or less visible, creat shiny/matt effect )

    Basicaly he see it the same like before, he just have to creat correct parts of texture on correct layer.

    ( i realy prefer in game texture customization + pick diferent textures on surface, but i can live without it ;) Its just suggestion and developers will decide )
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  25. LeoClarke Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    You don't.
     
  26. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    If I don't, my windows are scratched and hard to see through. Hence the argument against scratched windows; because mods are not the solution here. Mods should never repair a faulty game mechanic, they're there to expand the game, not finish it.

    That said, they've said they're fixing it so I believe they will fix it - my guesstimate is that the finished window blocks that comes with teased final blocks will be clear(er). They probably don't bother messing with any blocks until then, even something as simple as texture replacement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  27. LeoClarke Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    Well there you go. Problem solved.

    As for me, I'm not excusing the fact that a deficiency exists with the base game, but having played games like Knights of the Old Republic II, or Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, and possibly more I'm not recalling, I'm rather used to the concept of fixing issues with the game using third party solutions. I'm not suggesting that this should be standard practice, but the existence of a solution tends to dull my complaints quite a bit.

    As a side-note, I intentionally leave that mod off in my creative ship-building sandbox, so I know when I should and shouldn't use inverted window blocks... this is just my personal opinion, but I don't find it THAT horrific, so long as the windows are facing the right way. I just prefer perfectly clean glass, so in Survival when I actually build my creations I use the mod. *shrugs* Of course, to each their own.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  28. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,174
    I see your point and I don't fundamentally disagree. As someone who spends years designing ships I rather prefer the mod solution. I'm afraid if keen picks the textures they'll pick textures many people will instantly hate just because keen picked them. Heck, there's only one now and they hate that one. Right now I can start a build with standard blocks and replace them with exciting new modded blocks keen would never make. My ships aren't finished because new mods keep coming out. From the texture standpoint, things have gotten stale lately, to the point where I'm excited about the new vanilla texture. Mods really bring home the "don't like it don't use it" point. That's not an option with standard stuff.

    Once I get my streaming situation settled, my next goal is to learn modding so that I can have what I really want.
     
  29. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841
    If they set up a scheme where users can select from multiple vanilla textures it can easily incorporate additional texture mods. I think that would be a win-win.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  30. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    842
    The reason I disagree, is that games that need mods to work are simply games that weren´t really finished properly when they were made. As such, I would not want them as examples for SE, because I´d never want SE not receiving what it deserves; a proper development of its features.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.