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Small atmospheric miner trouble!

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Farindark, Feb 18, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    Pistons are also to strong in force, if the pistons goes out to fast and starts bumping to the earth then it is most likly to destroy your ship.
    But this was not the problem because no matter how long pistons will be able to go they will always reamain limited. Wheels simply need more grip on the earth.
     
  2. Jacob Ellinger Trainee Engineer

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    can I ask why anyone needs more than 1 drill on a small mining craft? in space I get it but on planets why? ores tend to be in veins that go in weird places and you have to be able to turn easily so I always just use 1 drill.
     
  3. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    It is best to have your whole mining direction full with drilling space so your craft can alsways go in one line.
    This is on planets just the same as in space.
     
  4. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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    Because with only one drill you can't go deep underground where the ores are. It's OK for surface deposits like rocks and ice but it's very slow and time consuming for the deeper ones.
     
  5. Jacob Ellinger Trainee Engineer

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    how so? 1 drills faster than more because less surface area. I mean to say if you build a craft that fits behind a single drill would not that work just as effectively as something bigger but cost less? I am of the mind that a drill wall on large ships was idea for surface rocks but a small ship with only 1 drill was idea for underground stuff so long as you built the craft so that everything you need fits behind the single drill. Remember you can always right click to drill down to the ore quickly and use your single drill to fallow the ore vain once there. Link> Here <click me is what I use and I've never found I had to use anything else for underground stuff. For surface stuff I made a large ship on the biggest wheels and put a wall of drills between them and facing forward so I just driver over the ore hills and it gets almost all the ore in 1 go. then I turn on a rotor and the wall tilts down and I dig into the now flattened hill in a second go and in less than 30 seconds I've drilled the whole thing and without ever using some massive atmospheric thruster powered ship.
    What I am saying is I believe most people have the idea of how to mine on planets backwards and I still have yet to find a person that can make a good argument to me for using more than 1 drill to mine underground.
     
  6. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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    Well, I personally couldn't figure out a reliable way to use wheeled vehicles. And for a ship to use 1 drill I would have to make more trips to unload. I have a total of 4 designs I have yet to upload to the workshop that are increasingly larger for when I have more resources to build them. I start with a 1 drill tiny ship and the last one is an 8 drill monster. But the key point for me is they all fly so I can't flip them or get stuck somewhere.
    I guess everyone has their own way of doing things. ;)
     
  7. Jacob Ellinger Trainee Engineer

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    yeah my land minors are more of a hybrid with atmospheric thusters as stabilizers and they all have gyros so that when they flip (and they will flip) you just poll your mouse back until you flip upright. ALso why does my browser think "thrusters' is not a real word?
     
  8. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

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    You forgot the r, that's why.
     
  9. Jacob Ellinger Trainee Engineer

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    ^see says thrusters^ there IS an r and it is STILL telling me I spelled it wrong.
     
  10. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

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    You missed an r there.
     
  11. Jacob Ellinger Trainee Engineer

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    ok that one yes but the other one I pointed to. it says it's incorrect.
     
  12. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

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    Oh. Try highlighting it and right-clicking. There ought to be an option to add to dictionary.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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  14. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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  15. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

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    Greetings

    Very nice builds @Vicizlat ! I note you had in your description "Even though it is recommended to be careful when fully loaded." That statement and your designs excellent as they are to me pretty much affirm what I said in my original post. Atmosphere thrusters are way to weak as far as small ships go. You pretty much have to have a thruster porcupine/minimalist build if you want a small grid drill ship especially if you want other systems on it like oxygen/hydrogen to make your design suitable for all environments on planets.

    In fact if I look back at the early days of SE thrusters in general seem to have been getting weaker and weaker over time with generators giving less power (by design by Keen or an oversight ..who knows). I'm saying this by comparing my old small ship designs to my newer ones I have had to build as upgrading my older builds have been impossible due to not being able to fit enough thrusters and generators on the old designs (comparisons have been made with older builds made AFTER the block weight was a thing) this has affected even my space designs. Though I'm fairly sure someone could argue me down with some fancy mathematical formulas. :woot:
     
  16. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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    Yeah I have the same feeling. Ion thrusters for example feel sooooo underpowered... And the atmospheric ones are huge with their 3 blocks length and you need so many of them. At least the small thrusters can be more spread out around the ship. My pain is large thrusters - they take so much space and provide so little thrust for the space they take.
     
  17. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    It think special (expensive blocks) that would boost all thrusters on a ship would be a nice touch, this block would off course also be quite large so you get a real diffrence between large and small ships (not to be confused with ship types small and large).
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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    Well, they did make an example mod for thruster upgrade modules. I don't understand why they didn't include it in the base game. And now it's somewhat broken I think. But even if it wasn't you still can't use it if you want to make a vanilla build.
     
  19. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    Yes i remember seeing an update video about that, i was very bitten in the ase when they show stuff in a video and then not implementing it in the vanilla game...
    However the block shown in that video was to small to my opinion, it must be something not very handy to use on small ships.
     
  20. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    It's an odd thing but it could have been useful. Anyway I guess the best option is to just use moded thrusters. I plan to update my builds to use a few mods. That should make them prettier to look at and better to use I guess. :)
     
  21. Vicizlat Apprentice Engineer

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  22. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    I'm not sure if it fit in this thread, but i don't like too much small mining ships in planets, right now i'm using this for mining:

     
  23. Michael_6748967 Trainee Engineer

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    If you're getting overloaded with ore, why not make a cargo rover that'll carry ore and your small ship miner to/from ore deposits? Wheels are fairly fuel efficient. And you can move oxygen/hydrogen stuff, solar panels, etc. to the rover to keep your small ship miner as simple/compact/lightweight as possible.

    Atmospheric thrusters look good and work well IMO, but it's hard to make a ship that looks good with atmospheric thrusters in every direction. Too bad we don't have wings and control surfaces, or landing gear for that matter. VTOL would be helpful, too (if the devs could get it working well in vanilla) as then we could make more flexible/realistic ships with fewer thrusters.
     
  24. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

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    Greetings

    @Michael_6748967 Making a rover is not a bad idea but for me it is very much a pain. I always have major trouble with successfully making wheeled vehicles, only because of my own shortcomings battling with the various settings. I have watched many videos and read many guides (which I may say often conflict with each other) but just cannot get my settings right. I myself would love "smart" wheels which just do their thing and work out all the conditions themselves depending on load, ground conditions, etc all we have to do is stick them on. Also I despise the shitty braking system they currently have.

    I just want to be able to make nice compact small vehicles like I can in space not minimalistic thruster porcupines in vanilla without mods to get around it. :p Being able to rotate thrusters as in VTOL would be amazing but on the basis of the horrible rotors I don't see that arriving any time soon.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Michael_6748967 Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah, wheels need some work. Brakes are bad, as you said. Seems like it takes more wheels than necessary to move/brake (even with Power at 100%). And they bounce a lot for no apparent reason. The settings I can deal with...just a bit time consuming to set it all up. I kind of like tuning wheels for a particular vehicle, but not for terrain (as terrain constantly changes while driving).

    Another option for transport to/from ore sites is an ore/miner-hauling aircraft. Extra down/forward thrusters and a bunch of cargo containers - just have to be careful landing it. I've taken this a step further by separating cargo from lifting; I use cargo ships (just a bunch of containers, a connector, and some ion thrusters for space docking) and an air/hydrogen lifter ship (no cargo but lots of thrusters); that way I can haul the cargo ships around on the lifter's landing gear and transport them to/from mining sites and/or space.
     
  26. ancienthighway Trainee Engineer

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    My small block miner is centered around a Large Cargo Container and six drills and powered by a Large Reactor. Three large atmospheric thrusters are needed to life the ship with a completely loaded cargo container. Due to the weight and mass of the loaded ship, 38 small thrusters are needed for maneuvering. Even so angling too steep to mine or listing to one side or the other will plant the ship on the ground.

    I had too many problems trying to work with a two drill ship with a medium cargo container. It was very unstable with the slightest tip off the horizon placing in on its side on the ground and unable to recover. Being so small, there were limited places for additional thrusters to be added for stabilization. By the time I fixed those problems and adjusted the way I fly the ship, I realized the small cargo space really wouldn't support any major building needed to get into space. I ended up doing most of my mining by hand and using a rover to move the ore until big miner was ready. Even then the rover had just one medium cargo hold so the only thing I gained was transport speed and eliminated the need to recover the small miner after every operation.
     
  27. Spacedweller Trainee Engineer

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    This is my small atmosphere miner, i have been struggling also to make good viable solution for planet use.
    Mass around 80 000 kg, can haul up approx. 400 000 kg, recommended load around 250 000 kg.
    6x ejectors to drop ore or/and stone away while mining.
    2x large small ship reactors to power this drill is needed.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  28. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

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    Just a quick question here, since I've had interesting experiences recently trying to make a small block small ship welder. Can the small nuclear reactor not power more than a few small atmospheric thrusters? I made a VERY small welder drone ship with 1 small atmo in each direction, and it would not move, always showing "overloaded" when I try.

    I realize now that in the past when I've built these little drones, it was in space with ion engines, and the little reactor was definitely enough. Is the small block small reactor practically useless? I ended up putting 3 small reactors on it and then it could fly...until I put components on it, that is.

    I'm not complaining about this...Just making sure it's not a bug and not just me. Plus it seems strange that in the default planet lander, the large block small reactor can power two LARGE atmo thrusters without issue.
     
  29. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

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    418
    Greetings!

    No it isn't you it is the small reactors since the planets arrived the various power plants have been reduced somewhat in power output and the atmospheric thrusters use more power for thrust than the ions did, wait till you start using the hydrogen engines! :p
     
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