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small ejectors discharging impossibly large rocks

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Dominick Young, Mar 24, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Dominick Young Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    update 1.179.0 apparently changed some mechanics with small ejectors. my (ATMO) mining ship had no issues before the update and utilized one LARGE and 15 small ejectors. first load of the new update my ship self destructs when the small ejectors all poop out rocks on the order of 2500++++KG boulders. The new "rocks" the ejectors discharge are now many times larger than the ejectors themselves and certainly many times bigger than the space precious rocks fell out of my machine with ease. This is pretty much on par with a robin laying an ostrich egg.



    The rocks also, despite being discharged HORIZONTALLY can now rebound from the surface of a planet and go ABOVE the elevation of the mining ship. something sees VERY off with mechanics for gravity or boulders.
     
  2. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    I've observed this too. It seems to have been introduced in 1.178 though.

    This bug can be incredibly destructive, requiring some re-engineering to dump waste stone from a single ejector with a clear area for the giant rocks it spits out.

    Previously, ejectors would dump 135.14 kg of ore per second. Please bring back this predictable behavior. Unpredictability is an engineer's nightmare.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  3. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    Still occurring in the current 1.1.79.2 version.
     
  4. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    416
    Greetings

    I too was visited by the Lord :clang: due to this! I have a small miner with three small ejectors in a row underneath. Some of the rocks ejected actually come out regular size and eject as normal, others seem to rapidly expand in size. I was unloading into a collector and watching the larger rocks grow on exit and actually pushing the miner upwards tilting it left to right as each small ejector shed a large rock in turn. Then it happened.....a overly large rock was ejected from the center ejector and BOOM! my small miner now has a large hole where the ejectors and medium container used to be. :(
     
  5. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    Still a problem in 1.180 major.

    Little ships are (another word for poop)ing bricks.
     
  6. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    Is this now a standard game feature?

    Still happening on 1.184.2
     
  7. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    927
    i have also experienced this, the floating ore objects that the ejectors spawn is way too big for their size, and where they can be placed, it can cause destruction with compact designs, which have had to become more compact since the Drilling Radius was decreased, to fit the whole ship inside the drilling radius, please can we get this looked into?
    connectors ejecting that size of floating object is fine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  8. Arcwolf Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    37
    +1 for this one, actually had to redesign one of my ships because the rock chunks coming out of the ejectors are too big and were spawning part way inside the head of the ejector, clipping blocks then rattling around until they detonated my ship in half and thats one 1x1x1x survival.

    First said hell with it and had ejectors like smoke stacks to keep the rattle of rubble from obliterating half my small grid mining ship. But eventually just figured why bother and now I use a single Connector as a Huge ejector far away from my ship. Went from explosive type 1 to type 2. Thats a nauseating graphic... [​IMG]
     
  9. I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    Hey,
    Reported for fixing thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    Ejectors used to be able to dump only 135.14 kg of stone per second.

    When this bug appeared, they began dumping their entire inventory.
     
  11. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    927
    it helped for emptying faster, and less floating objects get created as its more per object, so i can see the benefits.... someone will have to see what the maximum size it can get to and still only take up one small grid 'block' of space :)
     
  12. I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    They still should dissapear depending on the max number of floating objects you set up
     
  13. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    256 works pretty smoothly on my system.

    But as a fan of nice round numbers, that 135.14 kg seems pretty darn random. Is it a programmer's in-joke? I'd go for something like 200 or 250 kg per ejection.
     
  14. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    927
    well its actually about the size of the ejections, yes with each floating object being larger compared to how they used to be, 5K of stone will be ejected in a small number of larger floating objects, which is good for performance, but the problem is these ore rocks that the ejectors eject are too big for their size, risk of damaging the ship that is ejecting them.
     
  15. Arcturus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,649
    Looking at older source code, back in 2015-2016 connectors and ejectors could only expel (250 L/50 L) for (large grid/small grid). No difference between small ejector and small connector with respect to throwing out items. This meant (675.68 kg/135.14 kg) stones.

    Currently it is (2500 L/500 L) for (large grid/small grid). This means (6756.76 kg/1351.35 kg) stones.

    Also seems like in the past code the size of a floating object ore scaled with the cube root of volume, but in the current code *something* different is being done? I haven't noticed micro-rocks when hand mining in the last while. Perhaps there is a scale control in place now?
    Debris model minimum thresholds are 0 kg, 1000 kg, and 10000 kg. So stones from the small grid ejectors now fall in the "medium" category and appear larger as floating objects? More testing required!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    This explains quite a lot.

    It also raises the question: Why was this changed to begin with? Did one of the devs just get tired of waiting on their inefficiently-designed creation during a play-test, and tinker with the code to speed up the dumping process?

    Many of my best designs simply use an array of ejectors or connectors behind conveyor sorters to filter out & dump large quantities of stone very rapidly... but these days, fewer ejectors are needed. I don't see a major performance boost from this, though (as you still dump the same number of objects either way, and the old many-ejector designs run just as smooth as before), so the change doesn't really seem justified.


    While it's true that a cube 50 centimeters per side holds 500 liters, and I guess that could be where this number is coming from... the actual port on the ejector is considerably smaller than the full block width, as well as being a circle. Ditto for the connectors, which have ports less than 150 cm across, so 2500 liters is even crazier! Numbers for cubes of volume don't convert very nicely to spherical rocks, resulting in excessive sized boulders.


    I think a fix for the problem should be to adjust how ore chunks are dynamically rendered by volume, and figure out what the biggest size stone can be ejected from such blocks, without resulting in a stone physically larger than the ejection port on the actual block. Thus, stones coming out of all connectors should be no bigger than about 140 cm across, and stones from ejectors should be about 30 or 40 cm across. They should simply look like they came out of those blocks, rather than instantly growing to logic-busting clang-summoning sizes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    Ill let the designers and programmers work it out but ill forward your conversation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.