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Some MP Tricks, Do's and Dont's

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by delabu, Aug 18, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Here I'd like to share some of the MP tricks I have learnt and used. MP survival is as much surviving other players as it is surviving bugs. Please do share any other nuggets you have come across!

    1. To connect one thing to another if everything stands still : use connectors, pistons and gear
    • Do no use rotors - they cause massive server lag as of 1.044.
    • Pistons with connectors on their end may cause the docked ship to rotate. Nothing can apparently stop this rotation.
    2. To connect one thing to another if its going to move : merge blocks (very careful and very slow), pistons, connectors*, rotors* and gear*
    • Merge blocks are the safest bet for stuff that must move together.
    • Connectors : small ship to large ship, though there are reports of them disconnecting. Use for slow movement.
    • Rotors : works, but causes massive server lag, so rather don't use
    • Small ship Gears : not a good idea. They still occasionally explode. May have to do that they are very close proximity to the thing they dock to. Sounds like it's dependant on server performance
    • Large Gear : Works very well as "landing" pads for small ships. Some reports of ships disconnecting at high speed, but most people find it very reliable. Leave some space between docking ship and gear
    • Large Gear to Large Ship : also seems to work well.
    • General rule : the slower the movement, the better. Smooth, slow turns and low speeds are the safest.
    • Watch out for this combo : Big ship docking to big ship with connector WHILE a small ship is docked to big ship with big ship gear. In general, don't dock too many things to each other. I've seen a big ship, small ship combo that was very stable, go completely crazy when a big ship was docked to the other big ship. This does not seem to happen if the small ship is undocked first.
    3. When using merge blocks : make sure an armour block is between the merge block and your prized creation.
    • If the ships "snap" together, the armor block may get deformed, if it's not an armor block, the block the merge block is connected to may explode (and not just deform) and destroy stuff adjacent to THAT - buffering with armor is the best.
    4. Don't travel at speed with damps off. If you disconnect/crash, your ship is GONE.
    • If you reconnect and manage to find the ship, there is no way of getting back in easily, especially if it's going fast. You can remote control it, but you can't switch damps on remotely!
    • Going at top speed should ONLY be done with damps on.
    5. If you WANT dampeners off for traveling long distances - here is how to coast with damps still on:
    • It's best to have a med bay on-ship (or you will have to go find it).
    • Don't travel faster than about 60-80 m/s (if you go top speed, rubberbanding will probably make it travel faster than your suit's top speed)
    • Make sure it has an antenna with the range to at least 300m (around the suit's range).
    • Speed up to travel speed, keep damps ON and toggle the cockpit's "control thrusters", you are now coasting like without damps
    • If you get disconnected - spawn at the ship and hope you "clip to the outside" - repeat if you die, until you end up outside the ship. (or fly where the ship was last - at least its going slow enough that you can catch up)
    • Catch up and connect to the ship remotely. Now throw the cockpit toggle, damps will now activate and stop the ship. The key here is to "coast" by switching off cockpit control and NOT damps. Damps can NOT be switched on remotely. If you have more than one cockpit, you will have to group them.
    5.1 Alternative method for traveling safely with damps off (thanks Ghostickles)
    • Build a second cockpit and timer.
    • Set the second cockpit to NOT control thrusters
    • Set the timer to a bit more than your expected traveling time
    • Set the timer action to switch thruster control to ON for the secondary cockpit.
    • Now if you disconnect, your secondary cockpit "failsafe" will kick in and stop the ship.
    6. Switch off turrets before un-merging!
    • Currently there is a bug that the bit you are disconnecting, will lose ownership and your turrets will open fire on it.
    • UPDATE : reportedly fixed in 1.044. Haven't tested yet, so still better to be careful.
    7. Build out in open space - far away
    • Don't be a noob and build your base in a roid. You WILL be raided, especially on a PVP server. Even a non-PVP server, there is no real way to know who stole your stuff.
    • Build at least 20-30km from the closest roid (the further the better, I have been found and raided at 30km).
    8. Make a traveling base
    • Use the above method of "catching" a ship to catch your base
    • Moving bases and ships are much harder to hack/grind (rubber banding is a good defense against hacking)
    • Best med-bay placement is outside, pointing away from the direction of travel, with no base bits in that direction (least chance of getting smacked by your rubber banding base)
    9. Make your ships, base rotate with gyro override when leaving
    • A rotating object is also harder to hack
    • A rotating base makes it harder to snipe your turrets from afar, but I'm not sure how accurate your turrets will be themselves. A moving AND rotating ship/base is very hard to hack. The faster it goes, the better - but not so fast that you can't respawn safely and remote stop all movement and rotation.
    10. Spread your risk
    • No matter how hard you try, it's impossible to keep a base completely safe
    • Making more than one base far away from each other, spreads out your risk and means you lose less in one go.
    • Multiple med bays (thanks Ghostickles) - especially one or two out in space driven with a solar array. If you run out of juice, at least you can fly to your bases (you did write down the coords?) and refuel them. Saves you a ton of grinding to hack them back.
    11. Don't carry a lot in your inventory
    • If you die/disconnect/crash, you lose your inventory
    • Rather use grinding/welding small ships
    • Just carry enough to build the frame, then weld using a ship
    12. Use Merge blocks to turn a ship into a station
    • If you need to move your base, you must turn it into a ship
    • To turn it back:
    • start a new station and place the station block
    • dock your ship with a merge block to that merge block
    • the ship will now turn into a station grid
    • you can now grind up the merge blocks again
    13. Turn off your suit dampeners when piloting a ship (thanks JamesL86)
    • "I have been thrown out of ships idk how many times but when I turn off my suit dampeners before-hand, that no longer occurs."
    14. Don't play on servers with client saving enabled (thanks Kane)
    • When entering the world first, press Escape and see if you can save - if you can, LEAVE
    • If you can save, so others can, and it's a simple matter of opening the save file in notepad and figure out exactly where you hide your stuff
    15. Play on a server with coordinate beacons and remember to save/write them down (thanks Ghostickles)
    • When you enter a server, see if there are X, Y and Z beacons (the one I play on even have -X, -Y, -Z)
    • If not, it will be VERY hard to hide your stuff and find it again
    • Remember to write down coordinates of interest (YOUR base, someone else's base for some, err, YARRRR)
    • Use F12 to capture a screenshot if you are too busy fighting/running to write down the coords.
    • Get a better skybox with reference points - when you see a targeting cursor, or someone switching on their beacon, you can reference it to something like a planet in the skybox to know in which direction to travel. (thanks Malaketh)
    16. Travelling with Small ships - use F12. A Lot.
    • Reset your view using V (more on this later)
    • After you have adjusted course and have settled on a constant speed, press F12 to take a screenie
    • If you disconnect, your ship will stop (your damps are on, right, RIGHT!??)
    • Now you fly to the EXACT coords in the screenshot.
    • Now reset your view and orientate yourself so the beacons and background looks exactly like in the screenie
    • Now start flying, you should eventually bump into your stopped ship.
    • The idea here is to save a screenie so you can reproduce the exact position and orientation, then it's just a question of flying along that vector until you find your ship.
    • Take a screenie every once in a while and every time after settling down from a course change
    17. Be Careful with Missiles (thanks rottielover)
    • Because of desynch issues they can explode in your face if you fire them while moving.
    • It's better to stand still and snipe with them.
    • They may blow up in your face anyway...
    18. Know your server admin and their rules (thanks rottielover)
    • Many admins run cleanup that deletes ships and stations with no named beacons - usually the beacon just need to be placed and need not to be completed and must have a non standard name.
    • Some admins shut down assemblers and refineries with no jobs in them, so check this if they seem not to work.
    • There are still many problems with MP, so an active admin staff is a must, or you may have to wait until next patch day before those stuck welders/grinders work again.
    19. Chances of death are proportional to the amount stuff you will lose
    • This means, the more stuff you are carrying, the more chance there is of something going wrong and killing you.
    • Client crashing and disconnecting is also governed by this rule
    • If you are flying right at your base with the intent to stop/turn before hitting it - you will lose connection just before turning
    • Above applies when going full speed at an asteroid too.
    • Point of this point? Mitigate your risk and assume you will crash/disconnect any time.
    • Always think - what will happen if I lose connection now?
    20. Ship/Base Welders and Grinders are deadly (and they don't lag when they can kill you)
    • Welders and grinders only lag when you try to use them.
    • They won't lag when you accidentally fly into them - you will be killed instantly.
    • Chances of flying into them accidentally is governed by point #19
    • Point is - switch them OFF when not in use! You will fly into them when you least need to die.
    • Group a coloured light with them so it turns on when the grinder/welder is on. Makes it more visible that you are going to die at some stage when not looking. (thanks Metric)
    21. As of 1.044 Items disappear sometimes when moving (thanks mredge73 for the original topic link)
    • Original topic here
    • dont touch the front of the queue in a refinery while its running (or just turn the refinery off before you move the items)
    • dont touch any ingots in the assembler that are being used (or just turn the assembler off before you move the items)
    • dont drag a stack of items to any container if the resulting volume is more than the container can hold
    • dont drag a stack of items to the same container if the volume of the stack you are moving is more than the free volume in the container.
    • never double click to transfer items. (if your mouse moves a pixel, problem 4 can occur.)
    • This is is reported fixed and I haven't found the issue myself anymore
    22. Turrets are bugged - don't just rely on them (thanks Malaketh)
    • Sometimes turrets will shoot at other players, sometimes not.
    • Rather use stealth to protect your base (see 7 and 8)
    23. Plan ahead and use creative for planning (thanks Malaketh)
    • Use creative to calculate resources needed for a build.
    • Don't start projects that you don't have the capacity to complete - rather start small and build your way up.
    • Try out weird ship designs in creative first to see if they will work.
    • Use SE Toolbox (PC) or SE Calculator (Phone) to calculate the resources needed for a project.
    24. Don't try and learn the game on a PVP server (thanks Malaketh)
    • The game is hard enough as is - try it out in an easier environment first!
    • Lag and other players looting your stuff will make it hard to learn the basics.
    • Try a more friendly PVE server, or single player creative/survival first.
    • Grinders and drills are better for self defense/attack than the assault rifle!
    25. Empty turrets are good proximity warnings
    • An empty turret set to max range will go out of search mode and point to an incoming enemy in it's line of sight - even when empty.
    • You can even hear this. The turrets sounds have a familiar pattern as they point al over the place. This sound pattern changes when they "lock" onto something, with the motor running continuously as the ship turns/moves.
    • Even interior turrets (which are cheap) can be used all over your ship as "proximity sensors".
    • Really handy for those sneaky grinder wielding ass-tronauts.
    Feel free to correct/add as needed!

    [Edit 1]
    Multiple med bays by Ghostickles

    [Edit 2]
    Added more suggestions by Ghostickles, JamesL86 and Kane

    [Edit 3]
    Added traveling with small ships. My own technique

    [Edit 4]
    Added tips on missiles and general server admin from rottielover

    [Edit 5]
    Added some cynical points on dying, crashing and disconnecting.

    [Edit 6]
    Added inventory items disappearing mitigation steps (thanks mredge73 for the link)
    Updated items with fixes from latest patch (1.044)

    [Edit 7]
    Added more tips from Malaketh and Metric

    [Edit 8]
    Updated connecting with rotors, pistons, gear and connectors while moving.

    [Edit 9]
    Added comment on docking multiple ships together not being a great idea.

    [Edit 10]
    Grayed out 21 as it is reported fixed.

    [Edit 11]
    Added 5.1 - another failsafe way to coast for long distance traveling (thanks Ghostickles)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  2. Ghostickles

    Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    Multiple Med-bays. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
    Sticky this.
     
  3. squisher

    squisher Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    88
    excellent post!!
     
  4. Kane

    Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    If you play a PvP Server with Save Option enabled in Esc.. Leave now :)
     
  5. gFleka

    gFleka Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    562
    Very good post, thank you for this delabu :thumb:
     
  6. JamesL86

    JamesL86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,091
    Here is a good one... Turn off your suit dampeners when piloting a ship. I have been thrown out of ships idk how many times but when I turn off my suit dampeners before-hand, that no longer occurs.
     
  7. Ghostickles

    Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    lmao, of course writing down cords. Keep notepad open, or pencil/paper.

    Just yesterday some chap ended up in our base when a merge block reset a med bay ownership to no one. The guy tried making off with a ship so fast, he got quite far, but was stopped eventually (rockets) and we recovered. In all the commotion he didn't jot down the cords! If he did we would have had many visitors, every one wants a piece of action and was asking him where we were.

    Whether the 100 gazillion dollar NASA space pen or the Soviet Pencil, keep a Log.
     
  8. SpyderTheSir

    SpyderTheSir Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    153
    Thanks delabu!

    I've posted this on my groups page (with proper credit, of course)
    There were a few in there I hadn't thought about
     
  9. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Just a pleasure SpyderTheSir - as long as you share back when you come across new ones ;)
     
  10. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Added a technique I use to travel in a small ship and find it again when I crash/disconnect.​
     
  11. mredge73

    mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104
    F12 works great too.
    Saves paper and pencils :)
     
  12. rottielover

    rottielover Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    485
    Beware missile launchers : Even though a bug-fix was release this didn't solve the dedicated server issues with rubber banding. However, I have found that missile launchers are great at sniping targets. I took out a large ship war grinder once with a tiny fighter (consisted of a cockpit, launcher, small reactor, gyro, and 7 thrusters. ). I got to just outside turret range while he was busy grinding some poor soul's base. After coming to a complete stop and lining up I unchained 2 missiles with a two court between. The first must have glitched a little because his ship opened up from the inside out. The 2 nd hit the armor and caused a hole.

    Unfortunately for him that grav gen didn't help him at all, cause his large cargo popped and spewed its guts inside his ship, tearing apart the guts as they fell out.

    When I saw the green lazors turn off I knew I had him. I swooped in and low and behold my prize was now basically a large pile of steel plates, cause the rest was gutted.

    Anyway, for moving combat, use guns or turrets, for sniping, the launchers are good, with a chance of
    Blowing up in your face anyway.

    Rotors and pistons: just forget it unless you like to see hours of work blow up for no reason.

    Always check your refineries and assemblers. Some admins run a cleanup that turns those blocks off. So if they are not working could be that they are powered off.

    Some servers require named beacons or the cleanup script will delete your stuff. Secret, they don't have to be fully built , just 1 steel plate and you can save your ship from destruction in a server cleanup.

    Finally and this can't be stressed enough, find a server with an active admin staff. I've personally played on servers that would only see an admin if there was an update. I've also played on servers where saves were not backed up and when patch day comes it's a royal disaster.

    Finally, yes dedicated servers have issues and I hope those get addressed sooner rather than later, but you can still have some fun if you follow these simple tips.
     
  13. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Can someone confirm whether right-click move is a fail safe way to move stuff and not lose it? I heard "somewhere" that one can get around the bug with stacks of stuff disappearing this way.
     
  14. mredge73

    mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104
    Check here:
    https://forums.keenswh.com/post/01-043-015-refineryassemlerconnector-inventories-loosing-items-7040987?pid=1284004874#post1284004874

    Last reports is that this is not recommended.

    Excerpt:
    <table cellpadding="0" class="post_body" border="0" width="100%" style="table-layout: fixed; color: #000000; font-size: 13px;" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="post" colspan="2" height="100%" style="word-wrap: break-word; line-height: 1.6; padding: 6px; border: 0px; background-color: #f7f7f7;" valign="top">1. dont touch the front of the queue in a refinery while its running (or just turn the refinery off before you move the items)
    2. dont touch any ingots in the assembler that are being used (or just turn the assembler off before you move the items)
    3. dont drag a stack of items to any container if the resulting volume is more than the container can hold
    4. dont drag a stack of items to the same container if the volume of the stack you are moving is more than the free volume in the container.
    5. never double click to transfer items. (if your mouse moves a pixel, problem 4 can occur.)</td></tr></tbody></table>
     
  15. Hero Zero

    Hero Zero Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    5
    Great post. Figured out a bunch of these the hard way.

    Full speed ahead, dampers off, feet up, disconnected. :(
     
  16. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Patch fixes I have tested:

    Small ship docked to large gear - works
    One rotor - works
    Large ship docked to large ship - seems to work perfectly
    Small ship docked with small gear to large ship - gear still explodes (one test on own server, so not sure if it was my server's fault)
    Unmerging ownership loss fixed - NOT TESTED (can someone confirm this???)

    This is a GREAT patch. I docked a small ship to large gear, on an arm on a rotor, that's spinning. And went for a fly-about with the large ship and the whole contraption did not glitch at all. Tested small ship docked to large gear on my favourite MP server up to top speed. NO glitching.
     
  17. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    It seems that thrusters are destroyed if they get blocked and thruster damage is turned on.

    https://forums.keenswh.com/post/01-044all-standing-in-front-of-a-thruster-causes-it-to-self-destruct-7048379?pid=1284009979#post1284009979

    Seems switching off thruster damage stops this from happening - maybe a good idea for server admins to switch off this feature for now...
     
  18. Malakeh

    Malakeh Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    29
    1. In the case the server you are in does not posses a coordinate system, you can use reference points in your skybox to navigate the world without getting lost each time when going back to your deep space base.
    Replace the ugly and confusing default background cube with a skybox which has reference points. In the case of Lunar Orbit for example the Earth, Sun , Moon and Galaxy.
    2. Plan what you build/ test it in creative and through the SE Toolbox check the resources needed.
    3. NEVER start a huge project when you don't have a proper manufacturing cycle that can support it.
    4. Always keep a good balance between the stuff you build, manufacturing, defenses, ships. For example you don't need 20 turrets when you can't support the ammo consumption.
    5. Team Up with other players, this is a team game and surviving alone will get you so far. With a team you don't need to nerd 24/7 to have a successful faction.
    6. Base Turrets need to fire only when its needed. Try to avoid your turrets firing by mistake. When turrets fire a red square appears that shows to the whole server your location, using the
    reference points system I have stated above someone could find your base easily. So make sure you hack all the blocks of stolen ship when you take it back to base.
    7. Turrets are buggy, don't suppose that having turrets will save your ass. At the current state of the game 90% of the game is stealth and 10% defences.
    In times turrets will stop shooting or malfunction so in those cases you are completely defenseless. Additionally turrets don't shoot missiles even if you set them to, since missiles (~1km)
    have a higher range a single small fighter could snipe all your turrets and get in your base.
    8. Your Personal Grinder/Drill is the best weapon to kill somebody don't bother with assault rifles :).
    9. The most important thing don't play in a PVP dedicated server if you don't have some experience in this game.

    Thats my tips for new players trying dedicated servers.
     
  19. Fidel Battista

    Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    256
    true that.

    -turrets sometimes have a bug when they actually dont wanna shoot on opposing faction astronauts (NOT CONFIRMED FOR OPPOSING SHIPS - yet ;)).

    - sometimes its relatively easy to get into large turrets blind spot in suit. back them up with interior turrets.
     
  20. Malakeh

    Malakeh Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    29
    I have noticed that even interior turrets tend to bug out. Thats why my statement was 90% stealth 10% defenses :). Strangely though when Gatling turrets are bugged for players they still shoot on opposing faction Ships

    I am assuming that everyone knows that they have to cover all 6 sides of their station/large ship in order not to leave any blind spots :)
     
  21. Ghostickles

    Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    Linked this thread to our group page, this guide is gonna save me soooo much typing! Thanks for keeping it updated delabu!
     
  22. Metric

    Metric Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    With the introduction of grouping and binding those groupings to hotkeys, I always put a colored light to turn on with the welder/grinder I'm using so I always know if it's on or not.
     
  23. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    I experienced the thruster getting destroyed bug myself this week-end and tested it on creative. But it may not be a bug. It only happens if a thruster is blocked and tries to thrust. I guess it's sort of realistic that they get damaged when you block them.

    It's completely quiet though, so it may just seem that they disappear, but they definitely get destroyed and damage surrounding blocks.
     
  24. Digi

    Digi Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,393
    That never happened to me and I always keep my suit dampeners on.

    Did this happen to anyone except James ?
     
  25. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Updated connecting with gear, rotors, pistons and connectors based on new patch experiences from all over.
     
  26. delabu

    delabu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    203
    Added another handy tip on using empty turrets as proximity warnings sensors.
     
  27. atomiczap

    atomiczap Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    35
    This may be a rookie question, but how are you getting this x y z coordinate system? Is it something built into the game, a mod, or are you noting the distances from 3 beacons you built in the world?
     
  28. mredge73

    mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104
    XYZ Beacons are set up by the server admin to aid in navigation where the center of the map usually falls at 900k,900k,900k.
    I wouldn't recommend any multiplayer server that does not have them.
     
  29. UrbanLegend

    UrbanLegend Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    224
    Q: What's the difference between building a "base" 30km from an asteroid and putting some thrusters on it to make it a "ship"?
     
  30. mredge73

    mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104
    Ships are easier to steal, all someone has to do is hack the cockpit and drive away.
    Imagine building a large production facility with 20+ refinery/assemblers and log on to find that it just isn't where you parked it anymore.
     
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