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Thanks for The Journey, but i am done KSH.

Discussion in 'General' started by vsimoesbh, Mar 12, 2016.

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  1. vsimoesbh Trainee Engineer

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    No one wil give a damn, but i am shutting down my dedicated server, this was the second attempt of making something real good of this game, but again, bugs and performance issues make space engineers impossible to play.

    We did hired a high performance host with dedicated hardware and we were paying it for month, with high costs, wich was ok (Speaking of money) since we had planned for that.

    Since a long time, game crashes were making impossible to play survival games, SE server extender has become the only tool helping us to keep this journey happening.

    Well, i was pretty upset about it and the recent updated promissed to remove the crashing issue when minning, it turns out that now there are another crashes, even more issues happening and i am not willing to keep spending money and time in something that dont even really give any fun.

    People spend hours playing, building stuff and they lose it in a second cause of any stupid bug.

    When i go at KSH website i see all the effort they do in other projects, time and money they should be investing in who brought them from NOWHERE to the world:

    Space Engineers Costumers.

    I am tired of waiting for the damn netcode, any other stupid game have better network performance.

    Since we will have many other options soon, like Planet Nomads, No Mans Land and others, i will withdrawn my faith in Space Engineers and put the effort else where.

    After all this time i never got a answer by Marek, any dev or even KSH Janitor, so i give up.

    Farewell, Keen.
     
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  2. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    You mean finished, polished and released games? I mean, don't get me wrong, i've got dozens of areas of Space Engineers that i'd call an Oopsie and No No, the waste of time that is the new suit being just the newest one, but even i find it intensely unfair to hold an unfinished feature against an unfinished game via pointing out that finished games have finished features. I hope you will find what you seek in one of the alternatives; i am still holding out hope for my 1:1 Earth Space Dock in this one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
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  3. Stiletto Apprentice Engineer

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    See ya, mate.

    Lemme just get a rag for this jar here... *Wipes off some tears for harvesting*
     
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  4. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    824
    Had you watched the live stream this week by Marek, you'd have known that most of the new netcode is already in. What causes the server lag is things like rotors, pistons and massive ships and destruction dragging the sim speed down.

    I've had no problems with 2 - 8 players. But as soon as anything big happens, everyone lags.

    They've already said many times that they have lots of optimization to do. Even now, the game is in much better shape than it was only 1 month ago.

    Planet Nomads is built on Unity. Despite being an amazing general-purpose engine, it has limitations. You only have to look at every voxel game made with Unity to notice that there's quite a low limit to how many voxels they can throw around without it stuttering and lagging badly... Some are even fully completed games which have exited early access and still lag or freeze like crap.

    SE is built on a custom engine, designed specifically towards handling volumetric objects and destruction at its core. Unity and Unreal will both struggle to come anywhere close to SE on that side of things.

    Empyrion is about as close as its going to get, and they've had to fallback to Minecraft-style destruction and still lack infinite maps, massive worlds, seamless transition between space and surface, etc. Once you have a flyer, you can circumnavigate a planet within 10 minutes. Try doing the same in SE (without speed mods). ;)

    No Man's sky is the only game that has the true potential to knock SE off the stage. They also have a custom engine built for such a purpose. But since its not released yet, and priced much higher.... and is apparently a completed game.... It's hard to know for sure whether it will surpass SE. :p

    EDIT: That does not mean all of the above are bad games by the way. Just thought I'd make that clear. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
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  5. PeTeTe809 Apprentice Engineer

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    Patience is a virtue.
     
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  6. Potter Apprentice Engineer

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    496
    I used to host a server too. We had to wipe our world many times and I eventually said I just couldn't do it anymore. I hosted it on a home machine and worked nights at the time, and I would spend a lot of time on my phone remotely accessing the PC and restarting the server and cleaning broken ships and floating objects out of the world file with SEToolbox. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. I'm waiting to start it up again and am very excited to do so. Multiplayer experience in SE (though buggy and jumpy as all hell) is a unique and rewarding experience. Building with your friends and seeing what they accomplished while you were in your cryo pod (at work IRL) was so cool to me. Eventually I had to call it quits because the game just isn't ready for that. I suggest you do the same as me and just wait it out. It shouldn't be much longer than a few months I would imagine.
     
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  7. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    Why do people posting this crap not realise this is the same as being a child and throwing your toys out the pram. I ran a server with some other gents and we had to shut it down due to performance issues. Did we make a song and dance? No because ITS NOT A FINISHED GAME.

    Get a grip people, shut down the server by all means but don't plaster it in a forum because it makes you look like a numpty.
     
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  8. Krougal Senior Engineer

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    1,012
    Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
     
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  9. WhiteWeasel Senior Engineer

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    1,086
    I never understood the mentality if people trying to run dedicated servers on an early access (or as I like to call it, continuous development) title. It's like opening a school while one of the wings is still under construction, and complaining about the noise disrupting your classes.
     
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  10. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    416
    I can understand his fustration, puting alot of work into a project only to have someone flip a bit of code around in the engine and it is not longer functional/viable/spawnable.

    Ive given up on servers about three times now, two Ive managed and one I just played on. Sucks to lose all your hard work but I keep coming back after a few months cause everytime I do, things are better.
    Wish I could say the same about my job.
     
  11. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    To be fair - someone's gotta test that. Expecting them to work flawlessly is another matter entirely, of course.
     
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  12. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    ...and here we see the wrong way to make a sympathetic "goodbye" post.
     
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  13. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    I really can't fault the OP here. The promise/hope of what a DS will be is a far cry from what actually happens. IMO only hotseat non-dedi MP is workable since the host can save at milestones and reload the moment someone breaks something, or lord clang makes his presence known.

    When I host, it's no more than 4 people total and I constantly ping people to pause, check that everything is "safe" and then save. About every 10 minutes. It's the only way to really limit MP frustration, and even so people get mad and rage-quit.

    Close in operations where ships are proximate to objects (see mining, grinding, welding, ie the core tasks of survival), lead to lots of broken ship bits due to desynch, etc.

    What does bug me is that he's giving up on SE for games that haven't even been released yet and thus have no pedigree and are largely unknown quantities. Planet Nomads isn't even in closed Alpha yet, No Man's Sky's actual gameplay features are totally unknown because the devs have been super tight-lipped. Call me exceptionally skeptical about both those titles.

    No Man's Sky is getting so badly hyped that it's almost guaranteed to fail based on how hype-trains work. I'm betting it's going to suffer even worse than SE: gameplay? Ha! What gameplay? Sandbox!
     
  14. Nacon Junior Engineer

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    591
    The OP is done... doubt he's gonna respond or anything to make this thread useful.

    So, please close this thread, it's dead in the water.
     
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  15. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    No way. When people make a dramatic show on exit, they ALWAYS come back.
     
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  16. noname42 Trainee Engineer

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  17. vsimoesbh Trainee Engineer

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    Thank you, thats exactly the issue.
     
  18. vsimoesbh Trainee Engineer

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    Well, i am willing to wait for those games and see what behavior the companies have about the development itself, see if they have respect for their costumers and use their effort to do really important things for the product.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
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  19. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    1,110
    As if Keen has spit on you or something... So much drama just for saying this is no longer the game that entertains you...
    I liked Vladimir's post better, that's how you put forward your stuff.
     
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  20. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    I know right, its like players are walking about with PLANET sized chips on their shoulders...

    geddit... planet :woot:

    But in all seriousness I think this topic has run its course, any chance of some closure here pweez :)
     
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  21. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    First part: Meybe say thank you KSH, they bother release multiplayers so early in game for players, it must be anoying fix it again and again in unfinished product and i would never do it ;) ( extra work, time and money )
    For second part: i did write KSH few times and get reply imediatly or next day soo.... i have no idea what did you ask, if they ignored you ;) probably somthink like this topic ? Where you want finished game right now, becose yesterday was late ?
    You can find many topic about multiplayer and how its dificult run server and you still start it, so you had to be ready for problems...
     
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  22. DOOOOOOOMMM! Trainee Engineer

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    Sorry to hear you leave, hope you come back someday.
     
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  23. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    Dude... Rust have a decent Multiplayer network system... Rust...7 Days to Die...

    Want a "non-Unity"? Insurgency had a massive hit with multiplayer focus even when they were in Early Access.

    I understand they(KSH) are working on it, but saying OP's is wrong in his frustration is really stretching. We have been asking for multiplayer improvements since beore planets was even announced. Okay, they made something really good and huge... now the focus should be to make this work.

    They have said ZERO about how the plan to improve the dedicated server... I know communication is not their skill, but damn is the number of frustrated people raising.

    He meant the overall functionality to make the multiplayer work. Netcode just became the "buzzword" for the whole package.
     
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  24. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    I'm guessing the plan is to fix the DS. Can't really think what else would they do with it. In fact, the DS has got several bug fixes in the latest updates.
     
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  25. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    7 days to die, I can assure you is far from decent....


    Getting run over by your own minibike when I walk near it, while its stationary.

    Or falling off the edge of the world because the server didn't send chunks fast enough...

    Or dying to a zombie that hit me from 10 meters away....

    Or a large building collapsing causing everyone to timeout from the server...

    Or losing your backpack full of items because the server says it fell out of the world (wtf?)...

    Those are epic fail in terms of multiplayer. I could go on (the list is much longer than SE) but I won't.
     
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  26. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    Are you kidding?

    Dedicated Servers have almost no built-in tools for administration, instead KSH relies on a tool made by modders/players to the job, as awesome that may seem, those tools should be already be integrated into the binaries of the DS.

    It's far from complete, that's for sure, but TFP seems to be working with Gazz to fix a lot of things now, he knows stuff in MP, that will be a good advancement. Still, their multiplayer is miles ahead of SE, besides it was just an example.

    What I did said with sarcasm is about Rust, as a mess that game is, the multiplayer works quite well in fact.

    All those are bugs that can also happen in Single Player.
     
  27. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    I'm going to assume you just didn't read any of that.
    *facepalm*.

    Please do.... I'm not quite sure how you can stop receiving chunks from a server in SP, or timeout from a building collapsing. :stare:
     
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  28. Potter Apprentice Engineer

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    496

    You also need to consider the scope of the games you are comparing SE to. It's ridiculous to say that a game with one gravity vector and objects far less dynamic than grids in SE has better multiplayer. Also, im pretty sure that the map size in those games isnt even close to what it is in SE. You just can't compare them. They don't do the things SE does.
     
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  29. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    Seems you are unaware that 7 Days to Die uses the same system for both MP and SP, what this means is... when you join a world in SP, you are actually playing a "local" server. There's no distinction on the code anymore.

    So, yes using the minibike just some days ago, playing in SP, a chunk did not load in time and I fell through the world. It's a bug... hope you get my point.

    No it's not, while 7 Days to die doesn't have the the complications of Physics, well it does but in a far far less scope, 7 Days to Die deals with AI, patching, crafting paths much much more complex, skills, etc... every game have it's complications, don't say it's ridiculous, SE is for sure one of it's kind, but both the game and KSH development is far from perfect, I don't mean that as a critic, just a fact we as consumers should be aware. TFP(7 days to die) is worse... no, much worse than KSH with communication, they actively censored people on their forums.

    As I said above, every game does things others don't...

    On the map size, both SE and 7 Days to Die have pretty much limitless maps.
     
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  30. Potter Apprentice Engineer

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    496
    Well how much is pretty much limitless? Call me skeptical, but I don't think you cross hundreds or thousands of kilometers in an instant, or have multiple gravity vectors of varying size and strengths. And whatever vehicle you choose in these other games isn't calculated as multiple parts as they are in Space Engineers. The netcode has to handle every single block in whatever vehicle you've created in SE.

    So you're saying that a crafting system and skill system along with AI is comparably intensive to the physics calculations and the performed actions of every block on every grid? I'm saying that's ridiculous because it just is. It might have to keep track of the position and actions of AI enemies, but skills and crafting are pretty simple. I've seen you compare this game to others and say that KSH is totally behind in terms of multiplayer and it's just not a valid argument. I'm not saying multiplayer is good because we all know it's not. I'm just saying that until you find a game that does all things that SE does (or at least some of them) every comparison you make between the games is indeed ridiculous.
    Exactly. That's why you can't compare them.
     
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