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The astronaut doesn't know how to hold a gun.

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by PlaZmaButter, Jan 20, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    Just noticed this...
    Um.
    He's holding it by the magazine. Come on.

    So y'know, when you wonderful devs get around to it, pretty please move his hand up to the forward grip of the firearm.
    I don't know why this bothers me so much.
     
  2. Nukesnipe Trainee Engineer

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    It would really help all of us if you yourself knew how to handle firearms before you started whinging about the way the character model ingame holds it.

    Pictured, a real life operator operating hard by using an M203 underbarrel grenade launcher. If you look, you can see him holding the grenade launcher's trigger by the magazine, as the M203 is designed.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    Were you being sarcastic? I smell sarcasm...
    If not...
    Hahahah, oh man. That's rich. An underbarrel grenade launcher is a completely different story, they're awkward as balls but it's okay seeing as they fire once and then you're back to using the gun how you should.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Angry Mexicans Junior Engineer

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    704
    First, yes, you are right, he holds the gun wrong.

    Second, he is an astronaut, not a damn marine.
    Third, if you really do not understand how to prioritize game updates, seriously, don't post in this forum.
    The devs should work on core gameplay elements first. This issue, of all issues, is even LESS vital than expanding multiplayer, which far too many people cry out for all too often.
     
  5. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    Simmer down man.
    This is a place for suggestions. I've shared a suggestion.
    He may not be a marine but if he's procured a military grade fully automatic weapon he better know how to at least HOLD IT.
    Read the post, I said when you get around to it. It's not a very pressing issue, I know. I was just pointing it out.
    Also it won't take the whole team a full week to change, it's not a big thing.
    Oh and he's not shouldering it correctly either... but, yeah. :rolleyes:
    But seriously quit flipping out.
     
  6. Nukesnipe Trainee Engineer

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    95
    Your picture does not mention if the user is left handed. I use rifles left handed and pistols right handed, does that mean I have to put my right hand on the trigger?

    And why, exactly, would holding the magazine not be a legitimate way to hold a rifle? After all, it's rigid, shaped like a grip (some rifles even have grips built into the magazine well, and you can buy it as an attachment.

    [​IMG]
    Think about it, the magazine acts as a grip that's perpendicular to the barrel, allowing greater stability, rather than holding onto it parallel to the barrel and direction of force. Furthermore, you can more quickly remove the magazine, on some rifles.

    I will admit, a foregrip attached under the barrel, forward of the magazine, would be better. But, again, that does not mean that holding it by the magazine is "wrong". It's simply "not the best if you have an attachment on hand."
     
  7. Angry Mexicans Junior Engineer

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    704
    I don't see a huge need to "simmer down." You brought up a meaningless complaint and were more rude than you needed to be to the first person who brought up a point on the contrary. I don't much respect people who do that.

    As to the above, yeah, you CAN hold the magazine. Soldiers do it on occasion. It all depends on how it is most ergonomic to hold the weapon in the particular circumstances. Obviously it isn't perfect form.

    But still, this is probably the last thing the developers should worry about.
     
  8. Azi Dahaka Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    Meaningless complaint? It bugs me, and I've never even used a gun. I know that there are better ways to hold an assault rifle than that. You can hold it by the magazine, sure, but it isn't optimal. You would think an engineer of all people would know that.
     
  9. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    I checked out your suggestions Mexican. A lot of the stuff you've talked about is a heck of a lot further down the development line than modifying an animation to make more sense. Don't go chewing me out over it.
    Simmer down because you're telling me to stop posting on the forums unless I suggest completely following the dev teams road map. This is a suggestion forum for suggestions that they'll save for later if they like. Not "WE MUST ADD THIS IMMEDIATELY, DROP EVERYTHING GUYS."
    And yeah okay, you COULD hold a gun by the magazine, but it's rare form that doesn't work as well in most circumstances compared to the tried and true method. Some cheaper mags get jacked up by it and jam your gun too. You have a less sturdy hold on your weapon and it will be less stable that if your arm was further forward. Your arm is stabilizing the end of the gun so in CQC if an enemy tried to push your gun away to resist getting skewered (Bayonets FTW) or shot with the barrel pushed into their chest. Your arm is also closer to doorknobs or anything you need to interact with on the fly.
     
  10. Shiliski Apprentice Engineer

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    290
    Except that the first person who responded was also pretty rude, and so are you, so what was your point?
     
  11. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    I don't really think I was being rude... I thought the first guy was joking around.
    "A real life operator operating hard"
     
  12. Angry Mexicans Junior Engineer

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    704
    Functional warheads are in game and relevant. The need to make them function more is definitely legitimate.
    Fixing the speed issue which has made me lose a ship is very relevant as well. Wiring has been suggested and is not difficult to implement if viewed favorably.

    Simply radar and drones are also core gameplay suggestions.

    The holding a gun isn't relevant to gameplay. That's a finishing touch.

    But if you weren't aiming for belligerence toward the first response, then I apologize for mine.
     
  13. Vermillion Senior Engineer

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    2,131
    It may not be the recommended way to hold the gun, but it is a widely used means of holding the gun.
    Also, this is in space. The Engineer may be restricted by the range of movement on his suit. In fact, that's more than likely considering holding it in the "correct" location would put his elbow over his chest-mounted thrusters. While holding it by the magazine would allow more room between the thrusters and his arm while keep the barrel aimed straight.
     
  14. RedPhoenix Moderator

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    817
    It has advantages holding a gun like this. Mostly because it is more comfortable, as well as you can have a strong grip to hold recoil.

    Have you ever shot a real gun?
     
  15. Leon026 Apprentice Engineer

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    155
    Nothing wrong with holding the magazine well when firing a gun.

    Less stable for long range 200m+, however for short distance (under-75m) its not that bad for fast target acquisition and doing double-taps (not sure how you call "doublettes" in english). FYI - I fire the FAMAS once a month, and I've had the pleasure (?) of spending some time in Switzerland firing the SIG 550 and the M4. Its not recommended for long range, but its not heresy either.

    But honestly, even if the engineer was holding his gun wrong, I don't think it would worry me much, considering the game is about building spaceships, rather than being ArmA4 in Space.
     
  16. RedPhoenix Moderator

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    817
    Yup, double-tap is right. ;)
     
  17. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718

    From my 25years of shooting i can tell you one think: good shooter will never hold magazine on weapon ( specialy not on american weapons: magazines some times fall on ground alone, without me toching it )

    How will holding slightly moving magazine be beter then hold weapon under barrel ? ( there is gap on all military weapons so there can be some dirt and magazine dont get stuck so all magazines slightly move )

    Im just curious what kind of stability you mean, becose normaly you dont us automatic mode on rifle to need it. You will us semi automatic mode all times, one-two shot/s on head/body ( depens on distance ) is all you need and not waste ammo and hit nothink. ( well not with american rifles and 5.56 this weapon caliber dont work corectly, thats why they finaly switching on 7.62 and .308 )

    Well it dasnt meter in game and full auto mode is more fun :rof: ( forget one small detail: you will aim faster and more accurate on enemy when you hold weapon under barrel then on magazine ) Between im using CZ58 short range, FN FAL mid range, TRG-41 long range :p
     
  18. davesoft Apprentice Engineer

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    168
    This issue is irrelevant, but the discussion is great! :D

    Space Engineers: Needs moar glock
     
  19. Grim Apprentice Engineer

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    MOAR GLOCK
     
  20. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

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    Im with the OP here. Our job as "alpha testers" is name and shame everything and anything that has the slightest bit wrong with it. Even if its as small as how he holds the weapon. The devs might or might not do something about it but its important nonetheless to bring it up. I think people are putting on the rose tinted glasses of "omg its a new block this is the greatest game ever" syndrome and you have to look at the bigger picture.
    Personally holding the weapon I would grade as a low level concern of which the OP has also graded it as, and there are far more important things but nice post OP as its posts like this which will make the game no just good but exceptional!
     
  21. The Leftenant Apprentice Engineer

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    152
    I also agree with the OP. You never EVER want to hold a gun by the magazine-no matter what movies would have you believe-because that is a good way to cause your weapon to jam. A jam in the middle of a firefight probably means you're gonna die.
     
  22. Azi Dahaka Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    Unless you have another gun. Just saying.
     
  23. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    Good weapon dont jame becose you lean with all weapon weight on magazine against ground. ( damn m-4 it normaly want load 3 shells at same time or dont close shell inside barrel and jame)
    Its recomended move wight of weapon closly to shooter as posible for beter accuraci, but with moving surface, its hard aim precisly ( thats why you dont have weight on magazine )... so you place weight point under barrel near magazine ( never on end of barell or you will shot behinde corner :nono: )

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Azi Dahaka i dont think colt 1911 will work the same :rof: at least i did find solution how penetrate cevlar vest with .45acp :rof:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q3K1VgJpiNE
     
  24. piddlefoot Senior Engineer

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    1,182
    So you need to train your spaceman !
     
  25. davesoft Apprentice Engineer

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  26. ShaggyAMT Apprentice Engineer

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    I prefer the bi-pod method on a .308 :cool:
     
  27. Draygo Senior Engineer

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    In reality its probably because the engineer holds all 'weapons' with the same or similar animation.
     
  28. darth_biomech Senior Engineer

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    1,550
    Come on guys, characters in game are Space ENGINEERS, not Space ARMY. They know which end is aimed towards the enemy and how this thing is works, they don't need to know much more.
     
  29. DutchVictim Apprentice Engineer

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    284
    Exactly. Besides, the devs already stated that improved animations are underway, so i assume they also improve gun hold and shooting positions. And if they don't improve it, you could use the legimate reason that these are space engineers, not space marines. ;)
     
  30. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    I'm not military, I know how to hold a gun. Maybe it's because I grew up on them and that instead of a next-door neighbor I have a next-door shooting range...
    But why shouldn't an engineer whose somehow acquired a fully automatic weapon?
     
Thread Status:
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