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The Major Problems that Ruin Survival.

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Project 06, May 24, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. System Error Message Trainee Engineer

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    96
    1 turret wont stop it. I suggest at least 4 gattling turrets. On easy start earth that 1 gattling turret cant hold its own. The problem with defending against meteors is that it depends how big of an area you are trying to protect. 4 gattling turrets is just enough to protect the base on easy earth start if you position them right against meteors. Against pirates i suggest the missile turret.

    The best defence is the actually run somewhere else during a meteor storm. Meteors target the area around the player and not ships/bases so they only strike when you're around.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    A great thing for survival would be that you start with way less.
    Being able to produce and refine blocks with a far less efficient but smaller refinery/assembler.

    Has anyone else that when you start a new game wether single or multiplayer and you start with a vanilla respawn ship you are already bored with the game after half of the thing is grinded down?
    You should be faster towards building your own stuff instead of destroying givven stuff.
     
  3. System Error Message Trainee Engineer

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    96
    i have made a custom spawn ship mod for my server, i could easily add components to it. Its basically pretty much similar atmospheric lander only with all 3 types of thrusters (so you can choose where you want to start), cryo, bigger storage, stone to metal ingots mod. If you give me a list of components i could update it and publish it. It doesnt disable any of the stock spawnships, only adds a new entry.
     
  4. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    I am aware of this option but it stil does not give the feeling of building something out of nothing. There need to be things in this game wich make the use of a refinery and assembler as we know it today not vital.
    If you are on a oxygen planet with an iron deposit and perhaps one more you should be able with only your charackter create a small ship to start advancing.

    I think (i hope) they will bring armor upgrades as this could give that option.
    Perhaps some starter survival suit wich is not that good but can create on a slow inefficient ratio refining crafting and oxygen skills.
    But you would soon like to replace that basic suit with something that increases your inventory or your speed of jet pakcs or perhaps even disable the use of more advanced functions of ships when you wear the basic survival armor.

    There needs to be more the feeling you are building something from the start and not after 2 hours of grinding and transporting your items to some cargo, Even starting with only a cargo box gives you less the feeling of starting small because you have to start with such a big refinery.
     
  5. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    There are mods that give you "emergency" assemblers and refineries. With 10x storage settings its possible to spawn in with a full inventory of what you need to build an assembler and a refinery and solar power.
     
  6. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,864
    The core gameplay of SE is using grids to accomplish tasks, boostrapping from a suit just extends the early game grind, it doesn't add more gameplay.

    The whole idea of building a massive set of ships starting with zero industry is a silly trope. I'm glad SE is avoiding that route.
     
  7. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

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    221
    Heh, as an experiment I started on 10x with parts for an assembler, furnace and reactor with uranium in my backpack. Also with enough parts to build a flying passenger seat to fly myself to the moon-side of the Earth. Also I had enough hydrogen and oxygen tanks to fly my jetpack into orbit. I then built a flying passenger seat with a couple of ion engines. Then I flew all the way to the bloody moon and started my base there. All with just what could fit in my backpack!
     
  8. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    That's why I find 10x a bit ridiculous. You can basically fit a small ship in your backpack.
     
  9. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    That is correct.. on planets 10x is too OP but, in space its natural.
     
  10. System Error Message Trainee Engineer

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    the 10x inventory isnt OP, i use it because it reduces the number of storage containers i need, that means less blocks, easier to manage inventory as well. Although it reduces the effective weight against thrust which is good because at 1x inventory size you will need a lot of thrust on planets which makes it too grinding, repetitive and tedious not to mention making smaller sized capital ships less responsive in moving and turning. When you play survival you also should be able to enjoy it too rather than it being too much of a grind which drives away players. At the very least your ships can be capable and look good at the same time.
     
  11. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    Some people like grindy... Look at EVE and every other MMO out there. The fact that you can choose your settings and choose the mods means YOU dictate how you play the game, not other way around. If people are turned off by that... they either did not know/care to add mods to change how things behave and/or look. There are of course some things that can not be change (yet).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

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    221
    I personally like games that are grindy. I usually play on 3x just because everything feels to easy otherwise. But as ViroMan said that's why there's different settings, so we can all get the experience we want. :)
     
  13. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    Well have I got a mod for you... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=517479040 This is as grindy as it could possibly get. You are given a ship to start off with...sure... but, its so hard to get ingots when you can ONLY get iron and ice by mining. You have to turn stone into gravel and then gravel into ingots. sooo slow. I did good though I used a mod that can amp up effectiveness by a lot per upgrade slot(the upgrades cost 45platnum per though so they took a long time to get enough to make.).
     
  14. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

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    221
    Heh wow that's taking it to an extreme, though imagine if we could travel to different solar systems and this was a system that you could get lots of a valuable ore like platinum or gold or a new economy ore, but nearly nothing of anything else....
     
  15. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    That is why I thought sectors of ore types would be interesting. In each area you would find mostly a certain type of ore(except the extravagant ores like uranium and platinum these should be super rare). This would make people travel around looking for what they need and constantly building on their ship when they get the resources to add something. Borg looking utilitarian ships anyone? Not every asteroid should have something. You can go to most asteroids and find 3 types of something on it. Some should just be rock or dirty ice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Hawkwar Trainee Engineer

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    55
    It would be good to have a research tree with the higher Tier components reachable through research..... as an option of course.... :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Gakhon Trainee Engineer

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    87
    I think meteors, pirates, spiders and wolves are all ridiculous in their current form, and they just make me feel that the game is stupid. They really should stop these from spamming you all the time, and add some better AI, because currently they are simply annoying, not challenging. (Having said that, I didn't test the new drone AI yet in normal game; but
    I actually liked the drones I encountered in the campaign.)

    All of these elements are completely unrealistic, and ruin immersion for me personally. Wolves apparently eat steel and can't help but attack all inert mechanical objects. Meteor showers magically only happen at the exact spot where my base or ship happens to be, evidenced by a ridiculous amount of craters in that area after a few hours of play. Come on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. SVHelios Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I don't know if someone else already mentioned it but as far as I am concerned, what ruins it the most for me is the very start of Survival.
    I will try to summarize my points in the following list:
    1. Why is there no option, which allows me to spawn together with a friend? This is so simple to implement but for some reason no one seems to have thought of it and if I don't own the server, I can't very well make someone teleport us together.
    2. The start on planets itself is very very very rough. It all begins with a bad ship, that will eventually despawn, leaving you with only the materials you grinded out of it before it despawned. This seems very flawed to me. In addition, most starting ships are absolutely useless. The mining ship can't land on the planet, the escape pod is a cool idea but without a refinery and an assembler, you have literally no chance on setting foot on the planet. People absolutely have to be able to start a new base with nothing more at hand than themselves.

      A solution might be a small station, which combines all necessary functions like a mini-refinery, mini-assembler, mini-oxygen-generator and a mini-solar-panel where you can recharge and refine your stuff in order to build a new base. It should give you no materials while being grinded down and should only be placeable once every X minutes, like a teleportet supply-crate.

      I also want to have a knife so I can fend off these pesky dogs without energy or ammo and not just watch them bite me to death.

    3. Ressources
      While it might be ok to handle them like this if you already have a mining ship and station, it is incredibly hard to find usable ressources for your basebuilding when you start off. I heard that many people have coplained, that the oreveins are too small so building an automated drill for example is never worth it. In addition I have to travel to fcking Rome to find some iron if I didn't land on an ore. This is a major flaw, turning away sooooo many users. It's ok to have materials like iron mandatory for everything but if you do, make them more common and easier to get so that people have a chance to settle down and start their base.
    I would really like to talk to the developers about these issues since they seem sooooo crucial to me and I have no idea why they haven't worked on them yet. Could we get a response to this? Maybe? :)
     
  19. Aetrion Apprentice Engineer

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    202
    Yea, the various enemies in the game need to be changed from just constantly wrecking your stuff to guarding valuable treasures. That would make them an interesting dimension to gathering resources, rather than just a constant annoyance that makes getting started total hell and eventually fades into an uninteresting upkeep issue.

    There also need to be more environmental hazards you can actually build around. Meteors suck in that regard because they just break your stuff no matter what. Putting guns on the ship to shoot them down even feels counterproductive, because for one the guns don't always manage, and secondly ammo is more expensive than armor.

    A game called Windforge comes to mind here. It's a pretty low budget little 2d block building game set in a steampunk universe. Pretty unremarkable really, and flawed in a lot of ways, but it did have some interesting ideas, like if you flew in the upper layers of the planet you'd encounter meteors and had to use special armor plating that was resistent to fire in order to proof your ship against it. The lower layers of the atmosphere were highly corrosive and toxic, and you had to install air scrubbers in your ship so you wouldn't die, and install armor made from a non-reactive metal to avoid acid damage. I mean, Windforge isn't in any way better than space engineers, but it was cool that you had to adapt your ship to explore different parts of the map. A wooden hull held aloft by a hot air balloon was good enough to start the game with, but in order to explore the furthest reaches of it you had to really tinker with your design.

    I would love to have something like that in SE, where you can actually build ships that have defenses against various environmental hazards like radiation, meteors, corrosive nebula, and so on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Nobodyhasthis Apprentice Engineer

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    222
    I honestly don't think there will be any added survival features. I have felt like this since the dogs got added and 24 hours later there was a mod to get rid of annoying aspects of them. Off forum in the dev notes things did not look like an improvement was coming. It will be mostly a PvP game in the end. Outside of the single player scripted adventures there will not be much to do for single players that want PvE. The basics of an automated global enemy system is not there yet. It can be done manually but it require lots of setup time from another human player. Creating the spawn points manually. Either through antenna placement or adding bases. Then use the visual scripting tool on top. Without the placement or stuff to find there absolutely to point in exploring right now. Once a large ship has been built that is effectively the end of the game right now. There is no place for it go unless additional scripting is used.

    The possibility is there to build up a better survival game but is not going to happen any time soon for people playing on their own. The good news is there has been attempts to create some kind of global placement improvement in the modding community. Right now it really difficult to do with all the changes. Things will get better beyond beta with luck. See http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617055961 for an example of kind of game overhaul that is likely to appear. Although that has not been updated in a while. So although the final game might not have the survival elements that are needed. There will hopefully be a way to mod them in later.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  21. Comicsluvr Trainee Engineer

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    34

    1) I agree. I usually play with a friend and I would love for us to be able to start out in a ship together.
    2) You can click the 'Delete Respawn Ship' option Off in the Advanced Options tab.
    3) I think all of the resources need a balance pass. Ice in space is terribly common, as it should be. Ice on Earth even more so (wet planet). Ice on Mars? Now you're talking DIFFICULT. Ice on an Alien world? Who knows?

    I think this would be helped by some changes in the engineer himself. Instead of dying inside of 30 seconds with no power on an earth-like planet, why not simply reduce the spped like it does not and deactivate the thruster pack? That way, if you run out of power and are far from base, it's a LONG walk back. Watch out for spiders...

    Instead of dying in space with no power, we should cut the thruster and the O2 and you're drifting. If you're alone...you're sunk. If you have friends, they have 4 minutes to find you.

    Lack of O2 should kill you right away but rather reduce your Health and carry capacity gradually over time. That way if you DO find air and power, you're STILL wounded without a Medical Bay.

    As for those who claim that guns are easy to make starting out...just how much Magnesium do YOU find your first few hours of mining? Guns are easy...AMMO is hard!
     
  22. Aetrion Apprentice Engineer

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    202
    I really wish they would add some coilguns or airguns that fire iron slugs but deplete your energy or oxygen, because having to secure magnesium to be able to make ammo is one of the most obnoxious aspects of this game. Bullets are practically as important as energy and oxygen if you want to play survival in earnest, but magnesium is rare, and so specialized in its application that it's it's inefficient to try to mine it before you have the machinery to strip the entire deposit quickly.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Azirahael Apprentice Engineer

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    154
    This has not been my experience.
    While i have found Magnesium to be slightly harder to find than iron, i have never had any trouble finding the stuff.

    Generally, one 4000l hand-drill run gets you enough ammo to keep the dogs/bugs off for a good while.
    --- Automerge ---
    I'd like to see some (optional) survival stuff copied from Medieval Engineers.
    Like animals, food, research etc.

    Even a well done KSH mod would probably do :)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  24. Aetrion Apprentice Engineer

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    202
    And I've had times where I had to simply give up on a survival world all together because I couldn't locate any magnesium before the enemies did too much damage to recover from.
     
  25. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    on the topic of needing bullets to survive....

    wish that'd add a simple iron pipe as a basic enough melee weapon..
    that way the modders [who to be honest are one reason many of us stick around]
    could hook into it and make exciting varieties instead of just making an awesome sword but it functions like the saw........

    how hard could it be?
    one click one powerful enough swing with a short cooldown before another swing can be done.....killing floor 1 style melee.


    and of course i know both drill and saw could be used....but bloody hell does it get boring walking towards the wolf or spider holding the saw down.
    Bloody wolfs don't even have a correct hitbox.......but what pisses me off most is the cyberhounds DID have a correct hitbox......like how do you mess that up?......downgrade something???
     
  26. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    Its not the hit box... its the fact that the saw/drill/welder is no longer aiming at the cross-hairs. Which while is realistic, it was a HORRIBLE decision since it makes aiming at ANYTHING frigging difficult! Grinding down small grid parts is irritating as fuck!!11!
     
  27. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227

    That as well....

    since the character model update....or animation update....or skeleton update? skeleton as in the thing that mesh sits on...something.

    since some update it messed up the wolfs hitboxes as i said and as you said messed up the crosshairs.

    I did make a video highlighting some issues but i tend to wonder if anyone even looks at them?
    like post something on bugs but never get any...oh hey cool nice bug and example!

     
  28. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    huh didn't know about the walking after jumping bug.

    That world though... it... makes me feel weird just looking at it. Its must be punching my "that shit is wrong" button.
     
  29. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    believe me when i say that is one feature I'm so glad was a bug and not a feature.
    I'm always jumping around and looking around while falling and they completely spoiled it
    I'm so glad it was removed.
    and on that modded planet jumping down the ridges is what i do 90% of the time to get around.

    I saw a mod on the workshop for "Cube" planets
    at first i thought of being able to race a rover across the nice flat landscape....
    I was wrong but the planet is interesting enough to stick with it for the time being.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=806886354&searchtext=cube


    I even gave myself a personal challenge on this planet
    1 medium cargo container, 1 battery, 1 tiny refinery and 1 tiny assembler.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=325489727&searchtext=tiny

    it was going good until i ran out of jetpack hydrogen and bullets.
    then it felt a bit like rust with wolfs.
    it was around that time i noticed the bugs and thus...made that video.
     
  30. Project 06 Trainee Engineer

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    30
    I'd just like to point out something with the random derelict ships that can spawn in the world now. I found a large derelict ship (about the size of the "Big Red" ship in easy start mission), it contained a fully packed large reactor of Uranium ingots, as well as thousands of more Uranium ingots in its small storage containers... This was in survival and the only mod i was using was one that allows you to scan for these derelict objects. I decided that instead of having several hundred lifetime supplies of Uranium, i would instead crash the ship into a nearby pirate station.
    Here's a link to the ship i had found in case anyone is curious: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=321400945

    I assume this was added into the vanilla game as a random derelict ship because it was upvoted or something, however this ship obviously isn't balanced properly for survival, the fact that it contains an obscene quantity of Uranium should tell you that it should be balanced or removed from the list of random ships that can spawn.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
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