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The State of SE: My Thoughts

Discussion in 'General' started by iN5URG3NT, Feb 20, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    It's a "feature" you have to turn off, it's called "Reset Alignment" or something. It stupidly turns itself on every time you load a world.
     
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  2. Sirad Trainee Engineer

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    20
    is there anyone around in this big wide world (except masochistic ones) who wants to have this setting turned on by default ?
     
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  3. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    I have no earthly clue, all i know is even if it's on by default - disabling it per World should REALLY be permanent.
     
  4. Sirad Trainee Engineer

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    how ?
     
  5. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    Yet another thing nobody wanted.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  6. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    I'm sure it had SOMETHING to do with making the game more accessible to new players, i just fail to see how that annoyance is helpful in any way. I guess if it actually worked i would give it a try but... if it's working as intended i have not yet understood the intent.
     
  7. Sirad Trainee Engineer

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    well how [shaking head like an indian enginer whom was told that he is wrong] can i turn that 'feature' off ? This would, for me, reduce the annoyances by one.
     
  8. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,975
    [​IMG]

    I forget what key it is by default; i put it on Minus because it was something in my way so i tucked it to the side. Press once per loadup and whenever it turns itself back on.
     
  9. Potter Apprentice Engineer

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    496
    It's T. I just discovered that a few nights ago.

    Also, I HATE that the models for blocks with text on them are a lower detail while you are trying to place them so you can't see the text. As someone who will grind down a large reactor to align it so the text reads right side up, this is freaking infuriating.
     
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  10. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    Some of them have a band of texture a different color than the rest where the text goes; that can show which way is up. Not all have it though. :( This sounds like a low LOD model is being loaded for the placement model.
     
  11. Potter Apprentice Engineer

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    496
    Yeah that's what it is. Maybe it's trying to conserve resources so it can load in the earth planet which is forever invisible for me and my entire faction despite us being a few kilometers outside of its gravity well.

    [/salt] and [/sarcasm]
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    The purpose of that "feature" is to re-orient blocks like interior lights or passenger seats to be attachable to the surface you are pointing at. However, as implemented it re-orients every block to a preferred direction, even those that attach on all 6 sides.

    EDIT: something else that bugs me: loading screens

    Some of the loading screens feature ships hovering on 1 or 2 ion thrusters in atmosphere, which is impossible in-game. These loading screens are promo art from before planets were released, but they were added to the game DURING the planets update... which also added atmospheric thrusters!
     
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  13. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,975
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    413
    GoodAI being a major part of SE and ME was announced as an intention years ago.

    "By integrating Brain Simulator into Space Engineers and Medieval Engineers, players will have the option to design their own AI brains for the games and implement it, for example, as a peasant character. Players will also be able to share these brains with each other or take an AI brain designed by us and train it to do things they want it to do (work, obey its master, and so on). The game AIs will learn from the player who trains them (by receiving reward/punishment signals; or by imitating player's behavior), and will have the ability to compete with each other. The AI will be also able to learn by imitating other AIs."
    http://blog.marekrosa.org/2015/07/announcing-goodai-keen-software-house_7.html

    It seems that Marek is passionate about AI, which leads me to believe he'll have more passion for the games when GoodAI is far enough along to fulfill their goals. I know that's just a presumption, but it seems plausible.
     
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  15. Malware Master Engineer

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    Yes, like I said as an addon, not as an fully integrated part of the games. Specifically for people interested in AI. I swear to you, I'm not just assuming here. I had the opportunity to ask about it once.

    The addon itself is already there. I've never tried it myself.
     
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  16. JD.Horx Senior Engineer

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    1,032
    YOU CAN TURN THIS OFF WHAT THE ACTUAL F I THOUGHT THIS IS A TORTURE IMPLEMENTED ON PURPOSE

    oh my god, I built my last 4 large ships with this diabolic "feature" turned on it was driving me nuts and I nearly gave up building those...
     
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  17. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    Just thought I'd point this out:

    Saw this KeenSWH tweet today, and it answers that question at least....there IS an SE lead.
     
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  18. Sirad Trainee Engineer

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    20
    As i said, the developers had a thought behind it. it is a kind of psychic test, to check out how long it takes until you crush your head or fist into the screen shouting and raging.
    Or: They had no clue how many peeps dropped the game and left due to this cool new feature.
    Or: We are just cattle. We have here a place to Moooooo but noone cares at all. the butcher is already underway.
     
  19. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227

    mfw someone mentions AI in a space game.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Ravric Apprentice Engineer

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    318
    I am happy people are becoming more vocal about this dumpster fire that was once a great promising game. KSH's neglect for Space Engineers has been going on for too long and is becoming more and more obvious as time passes.

    How do you explain having very few features added to the game since 2015 and yet have less number of functional ones now. Especially when the question of "when will SE be what it should be?" is slowly becoming "what other developers can deliver?" instead.

    KSH I dare you to give us access to all previous builds to not only be able to enjoy things that used to work as well as show as how bad certain things have become. Because right now choosing between dev and stable is the same as hitting me in the balls while choosing between a maple or bamboo baseball bat.
     
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  21. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    @Malware and @Commander Rotal

    My conclusion, after all, is that while the "role play" part of the community seemed to be the saving grace for this game, they also made KSH shoot their foot several times!

    It started with the most basic denial of truth, that Space Engineers was in fact and design, a Sandbox game, you should build your own story, your own environment. In the beginning people were happy sharing worlds with "scenarios", but they were given more voice than people talking how much of a stinky Multiplayer was, about all the other long standing bugs. The result was tools for scenarios being developed, with the excuse that those tools didn't get resources from the main team, in truth KSH wanted to appease that crowd so they wouldn't join the others like me, screaming about clear problems.

    Specially @Malware always try to defend the developers, understand that most of us don't think bad about the developers, but about those who make decisions, like developing tools for scenarios when the base mechanics of the game were not "stable" enough yet.

    Now it's too late to call the helmsmen to change heading, SE is the Titanic, the boat with the best installations, with a promising future, but with a bad Captain and a blind spotter, the passengers see the Iceberg, half of them wants the ship to turn right, the other half to the left... the ship hits the Icebergs and sinks... in the case of KSH...AGAIN.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  22. Cronos988 Junior Engineer

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    545
    I think the problem with SE was always that, from the beginning, it lacked a clear idea of how the gameplay should eventually look. In the beginning that wasn't apparent, because there was so much missing that every feature felt like a big step fowards. But the game never evolved beyond "build a mining ship, now build a bigger mining ship, done". SE has a lot of very cool features, but they fail to work together and form a coherent whole. Projectors are great, but there are no systems in place to make automatisation convenient, let alone necessary. Programming blocks are great, but there is nothing in game to get you into programming. Planets look cool, but are completely out of sync with space gameplay. Oxygen is a cool feature which never got any compelling reason to be there, and now pressurized interiors are off by default. And the conveyor system was never patched beyond the "wip" version it was first published as. The whole NPC system is still too basic to do much with, there is no structure or progression to it at all.
    It's weird because this problem has been obvious for years now. People have been talking about there being fundamentally no game design in space engineers, but nothing has changed. IMHO it would have made sense to focus on Infrastructure given the theme of the game and the fact it has a working physics engine, but that's the one are that was simply not developed at all beyond the simple conveyor system we have.
     
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  23. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    @LFCavalcanti

    It's not the great Titanic blowing face first into an ice cube.

    There are some priority issues, though.

    Scenario editors, mission creators, cutscene editors, Visual Scripting tools for a game that is still being debugged and revamped is a bit premature.

    Keen made the assumption that people would be using these tools in mass to create content. The tools themselves are rough and poorly documented. So using them is very time consuming and frustrating. To add to that, the game is still in flux. So hours or even days of content creation can easily end up broken or bugged with every update.

    From what I gathered, most people aren't into creating structured missions or scenarios for others to play. Most people aren't interested in playing them. Why? Because a structured environment in a sandbox game nullifies the freedoms OF a sandbox game. A mission is a once-and-done kind of set-up.

    From what I've seen people like servers where they are free to do as they please in the confines of the server, settings, and admin rules/policies.

    Keen missed the target IMHO, as the toolsets created should have gone to server management, server set-up, content creation (like NPC spawn locations for spiders etc.), options in procedural asteroid locations, et al. These would also be available for single player games.

    @rexxar has done a lot for game management recently. What he's done for Space Master mode and management covers a lot of long awaited and yearned for tools.

    But back on subject: people WILL make content. But they need a stable environment, tools that make sense, and the ability to create content that enhances game play across all styles... not just single player missions that are pretty... bland IMHO.
     
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  24. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    3,077
    I just want electricity and welders to work properly and something to do with my ship.

    A decent AI on what we have would be an excellent start, if they reacted to me trying to kill them in a semi-intelligent way it'd add hours of fun, lol.

    Some kind of way for them to remember your actions and retaliate against you would be good too, a reputation system of sorts that could be a small upgrade on what we have.
     
  25. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,824

    A reputation system would be great. Since the only way for Space Pirates to interact with you is violently, then a cool down system would be nice too.

    Drone behavior is only limited to whatever you can program in the script. But by having access to a reputation variable if you're a Space Pirate programmable block would be great. Being able to add points to the reputation if certain blocks on a drone lose integrity would be great. This can be done in scripting. Then being able to access that reputation with that drone or OTHER drones could change their behaviors... like using an expanded search radius that ignores players with 0 or low ratings but draws the drone out further if you have a high rating. That's just one use.

    Another simple use would be turning additional pirate antennas on or off when a high reputation player is in/out of range. Reinforcements and heavier drones could be called in to match the reputation.

    You could reverse the process by paying pirates tribute. The more you give, the lower your reputation goes. You can always script the station/ship to react if attacked rather than paid tribute.

    See... isn't that simple? Now we have a pirate faction that can respond dynamically in accordance to the desires of the person who is scripting them... all with the simple access to an integer state saved in the Gameworld under a players .sbc code, that's reserved for the pirate faction (like "GetNearestPlayer").

    Keen could go as far as making a few of these variables and just leaving them generic, or possibly even a... Dictionary??? in the .sbc code?

    Giving content creators access to even simple tools like this without overthinking would be great.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    3,077
    I'd like to see a basic few premade (pirate, trader, etc) factions in vanilla, nothing too fancy but then the option to mod in more for more complicated interactions.

    Be nice to run into a merchant being attacked and then just rek both sides :D

    Spiders, have them spawn in a cave with a slightly different voxel material and access to the surface, add a Queen bug, some eggs and have the spiders patrol the area around the cave entrance...bam, spiders are a cool enemy.

    I think little things like this could add a lot without a lot needing to be added.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 4
  27. Meteo Trainee Engineer

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    38
    I can not believe the current state of the SE, I remember that December of 2013 when I discovered the game and saw its possibilities, the plan was to see what I had to leave it for months to return and see what had grown. The big surprise of the multiplayer, poor and very very limited, but already porfin could "harass" my friends to buy it and play together ... everything was great and wonderful possibilities for the game seeing that little by little grew ...

    Until I first appeared ME and GoodAI and there begins to see that after the months of rest everything was still the same or worse, they only made great updates and content to draw attention to new buyers, especially in the Christmas campaigns. And it was when I began to fear that once again a possible great game would become something simple and purely commercial, used to make money and not to please all those who from the beginning supported and had our pursuits in which our favorite game, To which we always returned, was increasingly degraded more and more.

    From the first day the SE was my favorite game, even above what could possibly be Star Citizen, but in the last year and a half for more that I try to return again and again I only see how the game has no solution, no Would come to operate as we thought or told us that could become, with nothing to do in the more than create a ship and show (how many times I had to re-create my ships and stations), skip the use of game content as rotors, Pistons and wheels for years to create something moderately usable in multiplayer and see that even the simplest ship or any action frustrates and anger more than the fun that can be in playing on dedicated servers where you can not even play with more than 6 people Or even less.

    Nothing that has or could have had the SE works or has even a feeling of going to work in the future, and as many begin to think and the SE does not give more of if (unless they resume and use a more appropriate engine for The functions of the game, or start again making strong start deficiencies that do not allow the game to work and be what it should).

    Right now I do not play the game even though I sincerely do not believe that anything I've ever created ever gets to work in a multiplayer world. Almost nothing I have created I have uploaded to worshop, because everything has been created for the multiplayer and to be used by me and my faction to rule the galaxy SE ... But that unfortunately I do not think it will happen as this Development seems to give its last snatches, you notice the desire or need to finish the project and unfortunately I'm afraid that the game going out in its gold version will hopefully do something better than the current disaster, but not at all as it should have been.

    I honestly feel very sorry to see how the years go by and realize what could not be, and I feel the pain of playing it and see that this ends without there being a solution, because if it had long been implemented, The "new" multiplayer system a failure, if that is the best they could do I doubt it and improve in its gold version.

    Well I'm sorry to extend, what I want to say is that the game should have had more attention, and not be in a "background" because it could have been the biggest and has stayed in something very mediocre, or because they have managed it , Administered or simply because they do not know how to solve it and make it work, the fact is that I am almost sure that the SE will never work much better than it does, and really has nothing to encourage you to play it after so many years coming back and again.

    I will continue to monitor its progress until the day of its gold version, but as I say no longer hoping to find something satisfactory and still less that it should approach what should or could have been this game.

    A greeting and good luck to all who still have their positive thinking about this development, new or old our dreams no one can take away, but sometimes it is better to realize that they are not always fulfilled.

    P.D: I feel my English I use google translator, I hope you understand me.
     
  28. Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,334
    I'd like to revert to patch 0.99 as that update ran smooth as silk alright you don't have planets but you've got everything else and if worked fine oh and it was before Ion Thrusters were nerfed into the ground.
     
  29. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    I went back and reread a lot of posts. Some people nailed it on the head... lack of communication.
    1. Documentation.
    2. Informing players about changes.

    Everything seems to stem from the lack of communication. Changes are made to the game without any notification. Updates seem to contain just a small fraction of the changes. ALL changes affect the game and impact players. Which leads to a lot of "wait, what the fuck? It worked last week. Is this a bug or a revision? I'll post on the forums as a bug. Well no one responded to the bug post. Maybe I'll ask in the update log. Maybe someone will address it there... maybe." Of course, if you can't find the Keen response somewhere, you don't know. If you haven't used that feature in a while. You don't know.

    This is exactly why Keen HAS to post a complete list of changes with the update log. If it's a bit lengthy, then just post the major changes to the log and the REST of the changes as a collapsible spoiler.
    The lack of information WASTES everyone's time; including Keen's. If Keen can't produce this information then the game is doomed to be an endless nightmare of Keen chasing its own tail. Without documentation it's like taking a shit without wiping your ass. The job just isn't done.
     
  30. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    @Ronin1973 i wouldn't say ALL issues stem from lack of communication. Knowing about Lense Flares beforehand wouldn't have made them any better. But overall the lack of communication (@Xocliw Reddit Dev QnA when?) and especially complete patchlogs (which is easy to understand, given the rushed nature of... what the hell is wrong with the forum? Why's this text field just scrolling right instead of.... eh, Future-Me's problem.
    Where was i... oh yeah: the complete lack of patchlogs is a big, big problem. And sometimes i'd like to hear the reasons behind changes. Like the removing of the Spawn New Station Grid button, which we only assume is intentional because Xoc thinks it was (he doesn't seem sure about it himself). But... lack of communication again. Is this an UI-bug? Was this intentional? There's nothing about it in the patchlogs so i'd usually assume it's a bug, but it's a bit... specific for a bug. Why was it removed? ("Why was it in the Player Tool-section to begin with" is another valid question but as long as it works i don't think anyone really cares.)

    Edit: formatting seems fine now, weirdly enough.
     
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