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Time to start up the hype train again

Discussion in 'General' started by halipatsui, Oct 14, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    When the hype train will start its next journey?
     
    • Late Late x 1
  2. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    Sadly it ran off the rails, crashed and burned, there is no budget provision for a new train in the current financial year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    Let’s gather the scrap then and build a new one!
     
  4. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Oh yeah, right, the anniversary update... @Xocliw whatever happened to that?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    I think I blinked and missed it. Or perhaps it hid behind the patch that 'fixed' pistons and rotors or the patches that followed fixing the patch that had fixed rotors. Or possibly the patch that is coming along to fix the patches that fixed the patch that fixed rotors and pistons?

    Or ....and this is a wild one ... perhaps the hype train will get overhauled to summon more wildly optimistic and improbable wonders for the long awaited, semi mythical 'Survival Revamp' that will herald Ragnarok, Brexit and generally the end of the world as we know it. If we get enough Hype it's almost like Keen actually promised us stuff......
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    It'd help if they actually talked about their plans. Keen set up the feedback site; a good start would be writing out their responses to the popular suggestions.

    They did add some new content in 2017, but frankly, it was small stuff. The physics overhaul must have been a major undertaking, but it doesn't look like much on the surface, except in the cases where it broke things. It's too easy to see the physics overhaul as being a matter of disabling piston locks, then re-enabling that feature a week later. They should have added *something* to mark the anniversary: a new scenario, anything.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  7. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    We get snow effects on the forums, what more do you lot want? :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    Over stoked the boiler on the locomotive and lost their head of steam so no hype train today, gotta take all the unburned coal out first ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    They have a great opportunity next Thursday to improve the 2017 average user's hapiness with a big upgrade that they will polish during 2018.

    I am not joking really what have we gotten this 2017?
    Can we make a summary?
    Apart of the big physics patch what else? I think I have the same blocks and the same lack of deepnes in survival that we had in December 2016.. am I correct?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Malware Master Engineer

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    The survival update is still pending, won't be released until next year. Getting basic systems to work properly first is just smart, because it'd be a bitch to design gameplay around features that simply don't work right... especially if they find they can't get them to work right and have to ditch them... It happens.
    --- Automerge ---
    They are deliberately not talking about their plans. Steam apparently even advices their early access developers to do just this, not talk about plans...

    http://www.pcgamer.com/early-access-rules/
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    I know what you mean but if you check SE youtube channel you will realize that from the first video in 2017 by 5th of January there is only physics adjusts.

    One year developing a survival upgrade and still nothing?
    No one new campaign?
    One year to add one block (parachute) that comes from a mod?
    One year and not a new block?
    Not even a new animal on planets?
    No commerce
    No NPC
    Even yesterday I switch off hand brake and my rover started to fly haha
    Omg this is to slow... I program software and really I can not believe that a team of 14 developers go that slow
     
  12. Malware Master Engineer

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    It's not slow at all. Not even a little. We spent 3 years building the bare-bones online accounting software and we got a lot of praise for our speed, but we're still not actually finished with all the features after the 4th year. Space Engineers is unbelievably more complex than this. Another year or so, probably, then we'll be looking at gold release. You probably won't find many finished, similarily complex games out there that's had less development time. Don't forget, SE was released in very early alpha. Much earlier than most games. Too early in my opinion, but hey.

    I'd say they're just about as expected, time-wise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Pharap Apprentice Engineer

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    Professionally or as a hobby?
    On your own or in a team?

    Those things make all the difference.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    I own a softwarke development company that I founded
    --- Automerge ---
    I know what is the complexity of SE, I can really understand how many events and triggers start with any movement or event, but add blocks and immersion to the game as some modders add unofficially cant be that difficult.

    Only reading some of the oldest post that describe very well some mechanisms to improve game experience we can complain about the lack of them.

    Apart of online developing that I never have used more than 5 minutes the core game is the same. ME has received a lot of improvements while SE has nothing except physics patches
     
  15. Malware Master Engineer

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    @jaunetajabe The focus of ME and SE has been different. You just wait until ME gets the same age of SE, it'll slow down just the same. Well, not to mention that ME is actually less complex than SE. And for someone who claims to own a software company I am very surprised to see you even mentioning the concept of "difficulty", that's completely irrelevant. Time, money and priorities, that's what counts. As the owner of a company this thought should be second nature to you. Modders have all the time in the world, and money isn't an issue. A game (software) developer does not.

    I will not deny that I find that Tim (his last name is a bit of an issue for me, but Deepflame, the ME lead) seems the more capable team leader, but that's somewhat unfair since I know him a little but haven't really had any chance to talk to Petr Minarik (the SE lead) - so I really shouldn't judge.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
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  16. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    I know what is the complexity of SE, I can really understand how many events and triggers start with any movement or event, but add blocks and immersion to the game as some modders add unofficially cant be that difficult.

    Only reading some of the oldest post that describe very well some mechanisms to improve game experience we can complain about the lack of them.

    Apart of online developing that I never have used more than 5 minutes the core game is the same. ME has received a lot of improvements while SE has nothing e

    Modders don't have all the money and time that they want because usually work for free after their own long day working

    I do not assume that a year programming could finish with a parachute from a mod and physics improvements

    Make survival deeper is nothing relative to real difficult programming rather than think and think and think and read forum posts full of great ideas like temperature pressurization, organic food, new treatment or some minerals like uranium that is ridiculous that share space with iron, harvesting seeds and tress etc...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. Malware Master Engineer

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    That is complete nonsense. We don't "work for free". We have fun doing a hobby. There's simply no comparison. We have all the money and time we need because nobody is setting a deadline, nobody is paying us, nobody told us we had to do it and we can quit when we want and work when we want, we're doing it for fun.

    Again, difficulty is irrelevant. Somebody has to do the job, and that's somebody who then can't work on something else that they deem more important. Like, functioning physics. Like multiplayer synchronization issues. Like simspeed issues. There will be a survival update. But it will not be the complete and utter gamechanger some people around here fantasize about. That never was the plan, and it won't be. I'm expecting improvements, but I'm not expecting a completely new game. Unfortunately. That simply isn't - and never was - the focus of this game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  18. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    What ia that we expect to see in the next big update?
     
  19. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    im an engineer and i have had multiple non engineer "managers" who loved to use the phrase. Just do it, when they had no concept of the actual difficulties that needed to be overcome and just how complex they were. being expected to machine hardend Armour plate with HSS tools to 5 micron tolerances was the one that took the entire Buffet. (short pro tip its just not happening)

    What they demanded is the same as as you are, I want this done NOW with no idea of what else is occurring or the issues involved or even if it is actually possible or what time scale is realistic for such an undertaking.

    back in early alpha there were constant requests for moving asteroids because it would be "cool" yet the basic system the game works in is such that it is just not possible or is not deemed to be cost effective or could cause other issues.

    thats before you get into the way that companies work where they arnt just working one A thing. each person will have many things they work on with a priority basis.

    its childish self entitlement at its worse to just demand something because it is something you want when honestly it doesnt read to me like there is very much actual need for the features. And the phrase I would be Cool just doesnt work for me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    To me its looking like space engineers is reaching the stage where it is a bunch of seperate systems that all do different things, not quite working 100% right and all using placeholders. Some day they will work satisfactorly and then it'll be time to go to town with redoing placeholders to do more fancy things. This is where things like AI cargo ships, better PvE gameplay from derilicts, encounters and pirtate ships will happen (or not, potentially). The Argentavis demonstrates the ability for cargo ships to have AI in some fashion, I do hope more of this kind goes in at it would make the game very interesting.

    If Keen doesn't do this it'll be up to mods to finish it, otherwise it'll be an empty shell survival wise, which would be a shame. It doesn't need much, but it does need to be coherent and make sense (like why do the cargo ships summon pirate raiding drones to thier defence...) for it to be really good. It might not be too much actual work for somebody who knows how they work, but it requires a lot of planning to make it good and it will end up setting a lot of the flavor of the game in the end.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  21. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    Probably you are right with the managers that you know but I am also programmer apart of manager and I love to program and it is sad for me that I do not have time for it
     
  22. Darian Stephens Trainee Engineer

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    Realistically, I'm hoping for wheels, if nothing else.
    Ideally, we'd get the survival update along with that.
    In a far off imaginary land, we'd get water and moving planets.

    A couple of nights ago, I was literally dreaming about water being implemented. It wasn't even anything crazy, everything in the dream seemed reasonable. I even had a followup dream shortly after where I was checking through Steam and the title update log to make sure this was really happening. But alas, t'was but a dream. Actually, if you count that dream and followup as one dream, this would be the second time water in Space Engineers has been in my literal dreams, the first time as a bare-bones mod with just the visual effect. I don't know why I love the idea of water so much, but I do.
     
  23. Thales M. Senior Engineer

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    Water is very important for Medieval Engineers but not that much for Space Engineers. Because in ME we don't have flying ships or powerful ground vehicles which transport large cargo to anywhere as in SE. In ME we can only use human powered carts. If water had implemented, Medieval ships would open many possibilities to the ME, e.g. carrying huge amounts of cargo. Because logistic is one of the base gameplay foundation for these games.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  24. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    Being honest water is the most difficult improvement that we can add to the game.
    If we have water we can dig and create waterfalls, rivers lakes!
    Water physics are very difficult as it is a fluid, it can be moved and pushed to create waves, corrents and do not think any user PC is able to manage all this calculations in real time while we are playing

    Water as a limited voxel maybe yes but as real water can not be included
     
  25. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    I think water could happen but the calculations would have to be very simplified, maybe to the point where nobody is happy, and it would need to be a checkbox option AND run on its own thread. I don't think it's worth the effort right now considering there isn't even a game to really play yet. If SE were done and they were just looking for things to do I'd say go for it but they haven't even attempted to balance out blocks or give people any challenges beyond personal ones.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    what part of the dev team saying repeatedly that there will be no water ever. it cant be done. is so hard to comprehend. its not like its a tease or anything its a plain simple statement

    who do you think understands Vrage better? Keen who made it or you who i would hazzard am educated guess at knowing slightly less about Vrage than I do.
    and i know enough to know i know nothing.

    yes i would love to have a volumetric physics game based on and in the ocean but this is not going to be that game.
     
  27. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    amusingly silly - water would add absolutely nothing to SE game play except a stupid thirst bar. Aerodynamic wing blocks now, that would add some game play.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  28. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    Nope, because we all know that the Plane Parts mod only exists to crash SE and be blamed by Keen for everything from a dev stubbing their toe to sunspots.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  29. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    I hope for the floating point and not another failed 'big update'.. :(
     
  30. Takeshi Apprentice Engineer

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    Nobody told me that, damn it. I hope for improvements on Multiplayer and DS.
     
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