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Time to start up the hype train again

Discussion in 'General' started by halipatsui, Oct 14, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,975
    I propose to adopt Optimization in the ranks of the Evildoes, currently consisting of Rotors, Pistons, Conveyors and Landing Gears*. By their powers combined their are Clang.


    * and whatever else is broken right now, i'm not up to date. Only saw that they broke Unsupported Stations AGAIN.
     
  2. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Meaning you don't care if it's slow as all hell as long as it works? :p
    --- Automerge ---
    What are they going to do then? If they focus on optimizing there will be outrage. If they focus on bugfixing there will be outrage. If they start adding new blocks etc instead of doing these things there will be outrage. Bugfixing is traditionally beta stuff too you know.

    We don't see the full picture here. Even if Keen was the most open and communicating dev out there (which, clearly, they are not) we still wouldn't see the whole picture. Ergo we don't have enough information to be able to make these kinds of decisions.

    As far as I'm concerned Keen's problem is listening too much to the community. They cannot possible satisfy everyone. Even if they were ten times larger they couldn't. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they finally realize this themselves and just make empirical decisions, responses be damned. They don't have the resources to make everyone happy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  3. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    They did already pick hardest, longest and resources moust consuming way to do it and i respect it ;)
    ( I will not start with IF-theoryes like: if they did pick easy way, if they did pick beer, etc... )

    In short: prepare yourself... delays will come SOON on this way. :clang:
     
  4. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Delays? Can't be delays when they've set no dates... :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Are you sure ? ;)

    We have been working very hard on the next major update which was originally scheduled to release today, but we decided to delay it for a few more weeks-->months to give our team more time to perfect all the changes. ( still trolling )

    What i call delay is, when they finaly start fix old bugs and they will have to start optimalize again... Its true, there are no dates, so i did use word dalays wrong way ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  6. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    510
    This sounds about right. Of course you can't make everyone happy, but we all know that. If you're confident in your vision, you'll not worry about the people that don't like it -- either they'll adjust and realize they like it after all, or they were never going to like it anyway. What this suggests to me is they're not confident in their vision for the future of SE. The real question is why.

    If they've got a clear vision for the future of SE, they should come out with it, and let the chips fall where they may. If they've got a few competing visions, again, come out with them, and let's hash it out; maybe one will be a definite winner in the eyes of the community, or maybe we'll work out a good synthesis. If they're primarily counting on feedback from the community to drive the future of SE, then they should be clear about that, and they should be actively engaging in dialogue, not *just* listening. Here's a practical suggestion: look at the most popular suggestions on the feedback site, and write some detailed responses. "We're having a debate about different ways we might implement this, so what do you folks think of these approaches?" is a good response.

    Fundamentally, this game attracts people who want to roll up their sleeves and do things, involving solving problems while paying attention to complicated constraints. It's in the name of the game, after all. That's the basis for engaging with the community.
     
  7. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,975
    I mean, one learns to be easily satisfied with SE -.- these days i'm happy it loads.
     
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  8. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    510
    "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." --Donald Knuth
     
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  9. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Sure, I can personally attest to that, but what is "premature"? For good or ill (and early access is imo for the most part the latter) the game is public. People are complaining because the game runs poorly for them, and leaving bad reviews.
    --- Automerge ---
    This has been quite clear for quite some time for me.
     
  10. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    Totes not broken fyi [​IMG]

    fast n dirty multi headed rotating drill bit. just over 11 large block diameter and no deviations. oh look a landing gear as well. #clang?neverheardofher



    Do i REAAAALLLLLYYYYY need to redo a guide to using pistons, how to to make things 'splody
     
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  11. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    670
    @Carrion could you post a pic of your drill head? It looks different than what I usually do so I am curious.
     
  12. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    Drill head.....simples :)

    One advanced rotor in the middle, with the short arms going out 4 ways. These are made of conveyors, to transfer ore

    On the end of each arm, have another advanced rotor....but with a small grid rotor head. On this You put a set of 4 small drills.

    The gyros stabilise the head and stop it swaying as pistons have all the structural rigidity of over cooked spaghetti. In atmosphere, I have to use a set of 4 atmo thrusters on the base of the drill head for the same reason. Small grid drills drill a hole much bigger than their own head...which large grid ones do not, which means you are not battering the thing against the side of the hole until they blow up.

    Then just tailor the speed of the piston extension to match how fast the drill is clearing ore or it will all end messily. Same goes with rotational speeds. Be prepared to tinker with speeds until you get a good result.

    In real terms....a wall of large grid drills gets you more ore....but it's just not elegant!

    The fun part for me is building piston arrays able to drill down to 100m + in gravity
     
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  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    There are plenty of fixes every single week. Bug fixes do also belong to beta...
     
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  14. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    Even released games have bugs ....... so bugfixes often continue after full release
     
  15. Herpaderpa Trainee Engineer

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Same here, can drive this clang summoner with 7 rotors, 6 wheels and 6 pistons on it fine with no clang :p
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Some bugs never had to get in beta, ;) high complexity bugs had to be fixed long ago... so they dont break parts of game later. ( maybe its one of reasons delay update, so they have time fixing old bugs and normal player will never notice it ) Simple/minor bugs fixing is beta for sure, but its not same think im talking about.
     
  17. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Never forget that you don't see the big picture. Neither of us is in any position to judge that.

    If you're talking about the rotor/piston/physical block thing, there's been several attempts to fixing that over the years. Also, you and Keen might have a different definition of importance. Or one of a billion other potential reasons.

    Including the - Whoops, that one slid through the cracks...
     
  18. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    I wonder who in keen still watch over big picture and remember all unsolved problems... after 5 years. Are you 100% sure they didnt forget fix some? ;) Im prety sure they did miss few...
     
  19. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    it uses small drills instead of large ones as they are less powerfull re drill shake with a similar cutting area. . Oh yeah drill shake was on as is thruster damage. i dont ever turn them off.




    it has 5 smaller heads on the main one all counter rotating to reduce shake and also the surface speed of the drills so that they dont snag on a poorly cut voxel. the feed in speed is very low but the rotating speed is very high to endable the drills to cut through the rock enough to ensure it is all gone on the outer edges of the circle.

    its effectively the same drill head as i use on the Mack truck-rig and the wayland solar mining rig just scaled up and extra heads added at the ends of the arms. it was a silly 30 minute experiment just for the shenanigans.

    re a wall of drills. Yes it works and it is simple but from a survival perspective its also extremely material intensive compared to the small heads. i have a varient kicking around which is a rebuilt yellow tub that has everything you need on it and a rotating drill head that allows it to function as a tunnel borer.


    i also am incapable of not tormenting clang on every build so i like Many Many subgrids.
    --- Automerge ---
    @Herpaderpa

    thats a nice little rig however i raise you baby clang with Uber clang [​IMG]

    10 wheels, 7 advanced rotors, 3 rotorsm one on top of the tower and 2 holding working lights , 10 pistons in a chain with a group of 9 drills , and one making a vehicle lift and 2 for support struts for the trailer. full 3 axis trailer movement across uneven ground and thats before i get to the trailer deck cargo.
     
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  20. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    *ahem*
     
  21. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    In survival...I find a wall of drills is the easiest build. You just do it in phases as you build up. That said...it's an ugly looking thing when it's built and the massed drills are lag monsters online. Your rotating drill head is much more elegant....uses engineering....and is what I now build instead of a wall of drills because it's just far more of a challenge to make it work well and you feel like you have done something when it works :)

    If I start a survival in space from the old beaten up yellow ship...I add a single large drill on the front, then conveyor it, then add a couple more drills and a rock dumping system....then a couple more drills....and by this time I am adding arc furnaces, a second refinery and can make a load of components. Then it just spirals from there.

    Gets boring though.

    I then start adding new artificial challenges.

    1) Play with no third party view even in large ships.
    2) Play with the visor open on the helmet with air in the respawn ship. Tricky one this until you get an airtight space to build in... You have to build a tiny ship inside the yellow one.
    3) play newtonian ....with no inertial dampers

    stupid things just to see if I can
     
  22. Chaosrex Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    Dunno why but i bet that you only use it in SP, try it in MP...
     
  23. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409

    thank you.
    the only issue with it is that once it has cut either i am fiddling with piston speeds to retract faster OR it takes an age to complete a full depth cycle. i am considering adding some piston mounted ones that i can extend when on the bottom to cut out and then a larger hole on the way back up to make it a more time efficent system but that comes with a load more hassel. ideally i want to make one that can cut a spiral path into the hole like a stairway to move stuff underground but then the spiral has to be so deep and large it will be a huge machine and the speed will be very slow.
    likewise i find the big square of drills to be dull

    i am also a terrible terrible pilot so my designs are based around trying to avoid manoeuvring in a close in area. preferring instead to be sat outside and drill in. i am also terribly lazy and prefer a few button pushes to make a system work and then i can sit back an relax as the ore just keeps rolling in. this is something i have been doing pretty much since we got given rotors.

    i also add in personal demands for my designs many of which are based on the above ie easy to fly, lazy as hell, does everything on a button push.
    mine are now and pretty much always have been playable with no jetpack as i just dont like the idea of supermanning it around all the time. it adds a considerable challenge to moving parts to not only make them work but also accessible. the Wayland https://forums.keenswh.com/threads/dse-wayland-class-mobile-mining-system-image-heavy.7396237/ is possibly the zeneth of this with multiple decks, moving parts and docking points to deal with.
    i also like to play with no 3rd person so i build in rotating camera mounts and observation points as well as a typically large bubble bridge and even have extended small cockpits that i can use to move my view point forward and rotate it down to give an even clearer view. all haul abusing the remote control for that one.
    then i test it in survival to ensure that it works and anything else i need to make it work.

    i have somewhere a rebuilt yellow tub using JUST what the tub carries and you carry that is a 3x3x15 large block fully capable rotating drill head miner with respawn, 02, etc etc. just no jump drive it is quite a fun game to see what you cna make from the parts of a yellow tub as a material limit.
     
  24. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    love the 'claws' on the front of the Wayland ...

    And you have given me another idea : play 'no jetpack' for giggles now we have mag boots and can walk on the hull OK.

    For me ... playing this game the easy way gets dull fast. I have played too many hours. Love challenges :)
     
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  25. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409

    they give several advantages to just a pair opf landing gears. if they slip then there are others to attach, it gives more attachment points so its easier to get a grab and they are like shock absorbers as well which gives a bit of play so i can turn the main ships hydrogen thrusters off to save fuel. also it looke funky. if they were not along side the main thrsters i would have them as a 4 way grasping claw like a crane one but thruster burn made it impossible.

    with no jetpack. also do it in gravity. or go fully 3d with control stations arrayed around things.
     
  26. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Hey!
    i just met you!
    And this hype train is crazy!
    But wheres our station?
    Major update maybe?
     
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  27. Thermonuklear Junior Engineer

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    612
    If you thought Xocliw's puns were cringy... Enter halipatsui-ppa-duippa-dui!
     
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  28. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253

    I will happily PUNish you all with xocliw
     
  29. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    the Hype train has been taken over by First Great Western. We are sorry to announce it has been delayed indefinatly by leaves on the line.
     
  30. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    Compound blocks, floating point working, super sized planets (1200km max, slider), sat around npc's (doesn't matter if they're not doing much).. errr

    Well, just these for now.. :munch:
     
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