Two things which are hurting the game now and in the future + more suggestions

I know this might not be the right place to say those things, but the two things that I think are holding this game back are:

TL;DR:

1. Garbage Collection. Fix that, and we could have solar systems made out of the top 100 planets on the workshop repeating themselves over and over again, procedurally (based on a seed);

2. poorly implemented survival. Make it so the wolvess die in two shots from the tools, or 2-3 bullets from a weapon, do little damage to the player (a pack would be dangerous, however) and little or no damage to structures (so a wolf could break one small block in about 5 minutes, maybe depending on the dificulty) and the asteroids/craters about once every two hours in real life (I'm talking about the default state, not the safe or god-save-me).

What I meant by the wolves hurting the game is that they are turned on by default, and there is no other way to get lightweight survival, for those who want to play the game in survival and actually have some action. Also, the spiders could be some kind of bosses, appearing once every 4-5 in-game days, and roaming the map, while fighting with other spiders and packs of wolves when they meet.

The cyberhounds could be something you could craft as a roaming AI which could defend you from other dangers. The wolves could drop some "biomass" parts... containing different percentages of resouces, crafted or uncrafted in an assembler.

Don't wait too much for proper survival, or you'll end up like StarMade.

Also, please allow us to display what a camera sees, on a screen. There is a mod, but doesen't works on v01.150.*
Also, it would help if you would add a female skin...
And since we're at it, a suspension piston would be great to have. I mean a piston which would act like the current suspension, and have the respective sliders (including the turning angle and speeds, to allow for more creative builds).

If you get parachutes, maybe you could have AI vehicles drop every now and then. Maybe using the same logic as the meteorites' spawn time, but with random atmospheric drop points and different intensity. Take a look at TerraTech for inspiration. You could have them like the on-land version of the pirates... or pirates not wasting energy by flying on a planet, but instead using wheels.

And about the planets, you could have the planets have a percentage of breathable air and percentage of poisonous air. This way, you could have a planet where you could breath, but have to constantly get healed, as well as be able to sprint for longer, the higher the breathable percentage is, with higher damage per minute (administered per second, for realism) the higher the poisonous percentage is.

One more thing, PLEASE add a scenario with more planets! About 20 planets would be a good start... About the planets being hand-crafted... why not make a contest for that, with the top 20 being added to the game... it would probably help if the people had at least a few weeks to do their job.

 

Here is why my points are so focused on survival and multiplayer: Maximizing the target playerbase. More about it: (However, I would suggest watching the whole playlist.)

Edit8: Added a few more videos.

Edit++: Waste is subjective.

 

Doubt keen at large has even considered that angle, sadly.

 

Too bad, 'cause that's exactly what will decide if in 2-3 years this game will be either dead or booming...

 

The only thing I would add, Is make some of those planets moons, and some of them Gas giants that just crush your ship and player.
Gas Giants would take a long load time because of their sheer size, but I believe their mechanic of just crushing and killing radio controlled drones would be a fun obstacle when trying to get to a gas giants habitable moon.

 

However, that would make things a little too complex to develop in a fashionable ammount of time, because that would require an atmosphere overhaul.

 

Excellent post!

 

1. Fix garbage collection (so we can move vast distances and so we can multiplayer).
2. Fix Survival.

(1) I believed this was fixed already; if not, it should be done asap. At the moment i am happy we have planets at all, no need to go all no mans sky.

(2) Cyberhounds are strange. The whole concept of a cyberhound is silly, like a parody; "The CYBERHOUNDS are coming, flee!"
The best would be to rip of something that works; i will say it clearly, just make minecraft like enemies. Shuffling "infected engineers". Exploding "Ripe engineers". Floating alien creature that shoots barbs or similar. Make the enemy fear the sun, and ta da, you got the very basics of survival. Only exploding enemies can damage blocks, and they will only explode upon getting close enough to the engineer; ignoring constructions.

But let us not put to much blame on keen for this, we asked for planets, it was never really in their design plan.

Cheers

 

A little too Minecraft-esque, but I like the basic idea.

 

The problem is at this stage most of the people who would buy the game probably have.

 

And because of the lackther of funds, they'll stop developing the game soon enough... and that's how an awesome game dies...

OR it gets bought by a firm which takes proper care of it... but the chances are insignifiant...

 

I think they need to get beyond the "build cool ships" to "build cool ships and have something to do with them".

That's the problem, Space Engineers is less of a game and more of a building simulator.

Gameplay elements have been promised, but never introduced.

 

Ripped directly from minecraft. One of my rules for game design is "If it works, don't break it."

Similarly I have enjoyed many features in factorio and from the depths that would be great for space engineers.

It is no shame to stand on the shoulders of giants, jet engines found in our space rockets are the same designs as those made during the 1960s.
Same with game features I say.

 

Keeping your two videos in mind, and looking at the SE roadmap, it's quickly obvious that much of what the videos covered is missing... and that the roadmap is quite specific and technical. :/ I'm an exploration / killer type player and MUCH could be done to improve the exploration aspect of SE... doesnt look like Keen has that in mind though.

 

By the way, could someone, please, link them this topic (or the comment with the videos) on a dev stream (of course, after asking for and reciving permision to post the link)?

That might help with fixing those problems. If they see multiple people linking to this topic, it's going to be that much more effective in catching their attention and communicating to them the importance of those things.

 

"They mostly come out at night, mostly."

This is frustrating for me, as i do want to do lightweight survival, but meteors and enemies attack at a rate of every 2-3 minutes (on 'normal'), so the player doesn't have time to gather ore and build stuff in between attacks. i currently play survival in 'safe' mode!?!?!?!?!

 

I suggested to them to have the meteors spawn every 2 hours and the wolves to be weak (5 minutes to break a small block and be killed by 2-3 bullets/tool_hits)... they obviously didn't care about my suggestion, even through it would have been sooooo simple to fix that...

 

I feel like you guys have a solid discussion here, but I don't care to much for the "copy what the other guys did" solution. The whole gaming industry is plagued with that. But, I can't deny that this game lacks content for Non player characters.

Indeed a silly or stupid mobile/ NPC in space would help the game. But, I think what really need is NPC inhabitants for the Ships that attack us and the ships we own. Right now, Every Single Cargo Ship is hostile... I feel like if there was a trader ship that ocassionally, flies by and trades components with the player, that would be infinitely more interesting. Even if the Mobile/NPC doesn't really do anything too smart, like she just wanders on the ship looking for stuff to wield as the ship flies.

Everything feels empty in this game in Survival, because it feels like you are the only living thing in the cosmos. We need more Keen Space Stations a couple more stupid silly NPCs both friendly or hostile. They don't even need to do anything besides occasionally sit in a chair or fire back at some one who shoots at them.

Kind of a let down to board an Argentavis and no one is inside not a mutant pirate, robot, or prisoner...
In short we need silly-dumb npcs the player can interact with. Even if the interaction is very very limited.

 

See? Someone gets it...

If we had even the wolves and meteorites to play with us, it would all be much better, but since they're currently overpowered without the use of mods, everyone is playing survival in safe-mode, which defeats the point of having those game mechanics there in the first place.

 

I think you are fundamentally right with this analysis. And I like your posted Vid's about Game design.

Yes, "Fix" Survival is one of the most important thing, next to "making a playable Multiplayer Netcode". This both decide if this game will be either dead or booming, when the Game leave EA.

to: 2.
No offense, but your fixes here don't really fix the most problems or give the game a better design (in relative to your posted Vid's). They only make the problems not so annoying or add nice, but unimportant, Features . There are already some very interesting threads about it, like this one. Or there are some very good suggestions to improve the Survival Game.

Here two suggestion which i have read on the Forum or they are Benschmarked from other games like Factorio . I think, they are one of the best Ideas to get a good disignd Survival-Game-Mode which fits to SE.

The first and the most importand one in my eyes.
various dangerous areas in Space and on planets.
What this means?
E.g. that there are areas without Meteor storms, some with less Meteor storms and some with more Meteor storms. (and density)
Or that there are some areas on a planet without dogs/spiders/pirates or in space without pirates, weak pirates and difficult pirates.
How does the game desgin benefit from it?
-Easy anwer, process of the Game. You can start in a "Save area" on a planet or in space now. So you can make your first steps in peace and you can take your time which you need to learn the Game Mechanics and build your first armed ships/vehicles.
-You can build a Outpost as "Backup" in a save area. (exception PvP, than you can build a hidden outpost in an astoroid in a hostile area ).
-And You have one reason more to explore the different Areas on a planet and in space.
- Achievements like Survive 30 min in a very hostile Area.
what has to be considered?
-Some good reasons to leave the "Save" areas. Save areas maybe have a very low resource density or there are some interesting spots in hostile areas.
(But different ore density or different density for the different types of ore in specific areas is another good suggestion for survival)
- A fully peaceful start area shouldnt be complete surrounded by extreme hostile areas.

The second one
fix and destructible respawn points of Dogs/Spiders or other hostile Enemys. (respawn of these points should be a Worldoption)
(similar, how it work for pirate bases on planets)
What this means?
Every type of animal/enemy have "lairs/nests/Bases" where they spawn and from where they attack you. But only if you or a Grid is to close to this nest/Lair/Base. To save Performance/Memory etc. Dogs etc. spawn when you are in range of the nest and they walk back and despawn if you are out of range of the nest.
How does the game desgin benefit from it?
- Dog's/ spiders etc. are not longer spawning in the middle of nowhere or even worse in the middle of your Base.
It's annoying in every Game (even it's an MMorpg like WoW or a FPS like CoD or a Sandbox Game like Minecraft etc.) If a enemy spawning suddenly and illogical in the back of you and you can't do anything to prevent it.
- Process of the Game. If you are strong enough (maybe you build a armed vehicle to drive in a Cave) you can destroy the nest/Base. then you can mine the resources in peace in this area. (exception Meteors)
- An other reason to explore. you have to find out where the Nest/base is.
- Achievements like "Destroy a big Spider Nest" or a "huge pirate Base".
what has to be considered?
- Respawn of nests/bases should mabe be a Worldoption for long staying MP Server.
- it should give various sizes of nests.
-um? nothing more i think, should fit very well to various dangerous areas in Space and on planets.

to 3.
nice, but unimportant. And cost a lot of performance.
to 4.
Some different Skins or/and Suit's with different stats/thrusters are important for Imagination and Gameplay. I agree.
to 5.
fixing/improve Piston is a good point. I hope they find a solution (or your solution from the other thread helps)
to 6.
parachutes are nice, but unimportant.
to 6.1
No, please no! An other annoyoing, illogical spawning timer? An other option, who everyone will switch off? If i want to play terra-tech or from the depths, then i play these Games.
Nothing against wheeled pirates, which attack you from a base.
to 7.
Planet creation contest and implement the best&matching Planets in the Game? Hell yes. There are some really nice planets on the Steam Workshop.

Greetings!

Hm.. i should summerize all the others most important Features for Suvival and open a new thread fo it.

 

6.1 could even be spawned from the pirate bases and roam around the planet... of course, there should be a slider for the maximum ammount of such vehicles roaming at once, on a planet.

But I think that those roaming vehicles should preffer the dangerous areas, but have a chance of roaming through safe areas, as well. Just because it's safe, doesen't mean it should be untouchable. And as long as it's not too overpowered/overpopulated like the wolves&meteorites are right now, it could actually be enjoyable. But that would require some fine tuning...

They are meant to be a quick fix, so we can have more things to enjoy while they code in the really important stuff...

 

You can't stick a million band aids on an amputated limb and expect it to work correctly.

And God forbid if you actually did, peeling off those bandages is going to be a rather painful process.

Suggestions that are at best temporary solutions, really aren't solutions. Everything you seem to spout is only a bandaid fix.

 

Keep in mind that every day without those fixes is a day in which the users don't play survival with challenges. Sure, it might be a bandaid, but would you run around or even walk with a bleeding leg? Who cares that you'll have the foot replaced once you get to the doctor, it will be much easier to get to the doctor without bleeding to death. And if you can still use that amputated limb to move there faster (keep the users engaged so they don't leave and attract new users with a kinda-working system), why not use it? The people are leaving (temporarely or not) the game, because:

And a game without meaningful updates is a game on it's way out. A slow way out, but still a way out...

 

Everyday keen spends making these bandaid patches, is a day they're not working on the long term solutions. any time they edit the code, its going to introduce bugs, and people are going to bitch and moan about the bugs, which when keen finally goes to try and put in the final code they're going to reintroduce bugs and issues that could have just been fixed the first time.
If people take half a second to think about it, it makes no sense to have a million band-aids. if this was just one or two minor issues, sure, but were talking about a damn near overhaul of the game with bandaids.

In the long run, you are substantially better off just doing it right the first time.

I'm not going to get into an analogy war, but you're already at the hospital: the legs gone, you need to have it properly closed instead of bandaids.

If you honestly think this game is dying, I feel sorry for you, it must be awful dreading updates thinking "this will be the last"

 

Except that for the wolves and meteors they DON'T INTRODUCE CODE, just edit some values of already existing variables. And for every day not spent now, they lose months after a year.

If you think about it,

Also

If you think that it's doing great right now, I feel sorry for you...

Not this one, but, you see, replace day with thousand dollars and long-time solutions with bandaid patches, and working on with applying, and you might get an accurate-enough picture about a metric that you didn't consider: MONEY ARE RUNNING OUT (eventually)...

"Everythousand dollars keen spends making these long-time solutions, is a thousand dollars (with which) they're not applying the bandaid patches"

Sure, this is not going to be the last one, but if the game is underhyped, it starts losing players at greater and greater rates, which leaves the game with only either veterans who are too invested into the game to switch to a new one, or new people who try it for a short while and leave, and that's because: 1. almost nobody is there and 2. who's saying that by then they would have fixed the existing issues?

The game won't be dead overnight, but it's actively digging below itself, and if you played SE you know that if you're in a hole you dug and you're out of power&hydrogen (money_reserves&new_users_bringing_money), you're screwed. And they might be able to revive, since they have Medieval Engineers, and get the tools&resources it carried (the people on the team and the hardware used) and leave the body (SE) there to decay...

 

So, you literally made my point, it's cheaper to code it right the first time, than try to slap a band aid on then have to spend the money you were already going to spend on making it right.

Keen spends let's say $10,000 regardless on permanent solutions, if they make bandaids they have to pay $5,000 and the earlier 10k.

The game has sold well over a million copies, as far as I'm concerned that's alot of money for the company to be paying wages and still generating profit.

If people actually read the early access warning, less people would be complaining.

Also the games still in the top 100 played games on steam, until it leaves that post I'm sure the player base will remain.

As awful as it sounds, keen really doesn't have to give a shit about if players are still playing the game, they have your money, then could care less what you do. So, so long as some new people give it a try, even if only for a few hours, keen still makes money.

If this were a triple A studio they'd literally tell the players to go pound sand and be happy they sold you a game for 3x the price of SE for less content.

See, here's where I disagree on a more personal level. I don't give two fucks about some objective, or the people who cry they have nothing to do in a sandbox. I play the game for the engineering aspect, and pushing the game to its functional limits. Myself and Sinbad have literally done something(s) that by almost any users measure is impossible. For me if they can fix the physics I would be as happy as a clam in the mud. I don't need any objective, building cool stuff is my objective and that's all I need.

I know there are like minded individuals out there like myself, and those are the people that will keep this game alive and well, if you want to play a shooter where wolves are 3 shots to kill I suggest you pick up some cabellas hunting game, it might be more your pace.

 

Couldn't care less.

Except for the refunds policy...

Until it dies out.

But would you play with overpowered wolves? I wouldn't... and I don't. So what's the point of having the wolves and asteroids there in the first place, since they can remove them entirely and still have the same playerbase. What's the point of making so many updates, when they can silently work on it untill they get a good-enoug version? Why still care about the community and not just run with the money? Don't take yourself too seriously. You're just an ape amongst bilions, living on a rock roaming through space...

 

@GrindyGears , you messed up the quote tags...

Extremly unlikely, more so since they're hiring due to needing more devs.

*cough* Minecraft *cough*

Finally, something we can agree on...

For me, good enough is to fix something with as little work as possible (so there are less people complaining and more people buying the game), then try to fix the underlaying problem which required the fix in the first place (i.e. make the wolves and meteorites easy, then take your time to make it right)

 

Yeah, phone decided it wanted to screw it up. Tried to fix, didn't work. So whatever you got the message.

I dont think that's terribly relevant. At a user level more stuff may be done in the same time frame, but it also means shorter life span of support for the game, I've waited a long time for this game, I can wait longer.

But minecraft inherently is much more of a game, it can have objectives to work towards, but like SE it you play for a day or two in a world and you have end game gear, now your only thing to do is basically just build. The game is artificially extended by things like mods that require huge amounts of resources.

Again, with the number of copies sold, I think it's more or less reached its limits. Yes new people will buy it, but i suspect the majority of people who would buy it, already have.

The trouble with that attitude (of fix it just enough) is that it often comes back to bite you. In almost all cases (programming or not) its bad practice to do so. Sure you have less people complaining, but the complaints will just last longer. If you had a leaky pipe in your home, I don't think you'd like the contractor to come in, cut a hole in the wall, fix it with duct tape, then patch the hole. Sure your problem of "the pipes leaking" is fixed, but he's going to have to come back, tear out his patch, make the hole bigger and properly splice in a new section. If he had just done it right the first time it would have taken a bit longer, but in the long run you'll be paying less, and would probably be happier with the job done right.