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Update 01.142 - Revised Building System

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jun 30, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. zDeveloper10 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    742
    well yes...it's only natural that a company would want to survive.

    that would not be as time effective as getting a team to work alongside their pc team so that the newest changes work just as well on console. less work over more time.
    most first versions of new features will be slow,there is only so much time to work on things and they tend to not over optimize things they're unsure of,or about to change
    the left list can also be expanded by mods. grouping similar blocks doesn't necessarily supersede the functionality of the list.
    ever since small/large ships(probably always?) you've been able to choose a block size. fairly recently within those two categories things like longer slopes were added.
    left clicking to activate functionality is an implied action of the left click button
    players can opt to stay on the stable branch. once features are ready for normal testing they'll be pushed to stable, while it is possible to opt in to an earliest public test version

    this game can be considered a draft of a game. the dev branch is made to push unfinished stuff, in fact to keep fewer such things in stable(in theory). pushing only things they're unwilling to change later is for finished games.
    some work has been done to provide tutorials, which are progressively refined. the data to determine what is beneficial for both Keenswh and for the players come from exposing live players to the game and taking note of their reception(as far as the design document and reason permits)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. zdzier Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    133
    finally, rework of the inventory. Now its time for you to make those conveyors and containers have different connection ports setup and hide it under the plus icon...
     
  3. Krougal Senior Engineer

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    1,012
    Yeah, after spending a bit of time with it, I can see why you and Rotal are bitching about it. Saying it needs "a little polish" is being very generous. It isn't 2 armor blocks, although you can almost fit all of them on a single hotbar now at least (light and heavy).
    Agree fully with Rotal, having to select small/large is retarded, and makes things worse...negating the savings.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. taleden Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    48
    Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately your strategy is not applicable to what I need to do. You are calling TransferItems...() using item.Amount as the quantity -- that property has the type MyFixedPoint, it just works for you because you don't try to do anything to the value before passing it straight through, so you don't run into the problem of that type definition being prohibited. In my case, I need to sometimes split stacks, which means I have to read the value of item.Amount into a variable, do some math on it, and then pass that variable as the quantity to TransferItemsTo(). I used to do that successfully using a variable of type MyFixedPoint, but that is no longer allowed, and I cannot use a variable of type double because the TransferItemsTo() method will not accept it (and I'd rather not use a double anyway due to potential precision and rounding issues -- which is, after all, the whole point of SE using a MyFixedPoint struct in the first place).
     
  5. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,740
    I'm crashing every time I load my world... dev build.
     
  6. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,214
    Not sure if it was also changed, or is just me, but now the game opens very quickly, the loading menu too, and also the world.
    Also, I can't find the conveyor tube in the G menu, not sure if this is because I have a few block mods
     
  7. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Uhhhhhhhh....does that mean....TIM is broken?
    Bad Keen! Bad!
     
  8. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    this is why this is the best update ever, those useless blocks are finally gone :p
     
  9. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    I think the problem people are having is a case of not willing to adapt to the new system. It's actually a lot cleaner in reality. Before I needed 3 hotbars for armor blocks ALONE; now I need only the 1. Some people might complain it takes too long to scroll through all the different blocks but if you play with it enough I'm sure you'll memorize how many scrolls you have to do. I do agree with the part abot keeping block orientation the same though, so you guys and gals got something right with all this ranting. As for the new create new grid system the only complaint I have with it is the ability to toggle off creating a new grid to avoid miss clicks. How about have a button like j as a toggle. It's not used and reminds me of ME's dynamic mode.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Pegas519 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    202
    as always, awesome job guys!!!! :)
     
  11. ileonte Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    12
    About this new scroll-wheel thing - it's unusable. First, it doesn't remember where you left-off scrolling so if you have to switch from your currently selected block group for whatever reason then you have to scroll all the way back to the variant you had previously (haven't checked if it remembers the rotation but I don't think I want to know). Second, it doesn't remember the 'distance' you set for the block (ctrl+scroll wheel with a block in the hand). I don't see how this is supposed to be 'faster' in any way vs the current system - you know have to move your right hand between the mouse and the keyboard more times than before because of this extra scroll-wheel action you got going on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,740
    I loaded a different world.. and was just messing around then pasted a ship from the workshop and the game crashed again.
     
  13. CCampbell Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    A) Slows down your existing work flow
    B) Distracts from properly integrating new features
    C) Lowers quality of artwork
    D) Dilutes focus
    E) Limites the pc version to the console's capability
    F) Console hardware is inferior today and does not lend its self well to this games computational needs
    G) You act as if console is just following in you're PC development footsteps when in fact you are deciding on features for both at the same time Inherently watering down the PC version.
    H) Your assuming pc players and console players want the same thing from this game.

    Totally fair answer.

    The left list IS A GROUPING for quick access.. Why not allow people to move the list group to the item menu the same way blocks are moved. Then use this new functionality for menu items that are groups instead of individual blocks.


    -One Better, How about letting people make they're own custom block groups...
    -And how about color coded menu block icons (and said custom block groups)... Who the hell can can remember what's in every menu for every ship and station.

    Way to breeze right over the real issue I mentioned "- group items but never remember what item was used last or its orientation or its size.....". I know its a new feature but the programmers are lying if they say they didn't think about the block rotation resetting constantly... and how about the tester? or the guys making the console stuff... cmon... crap answer.

    Smart Ass...
    - There is no indication the icon has been clicked... a highlight here is standard.
    - Right click is the primary mouse button used in this menu used to add items to you're menu
    - Single click functionality was only used for drag and drop to you're menu and the left list. There is no other Implied function of this button here.
    - When you click and select an icon the description still updates on mouse over of other icons. This does NOT reinforce the user expectations that the block description is in fact static.

    Yeah lets all jump off the dev branch and see how much you guys like that... dont talk to me like a child... I and everybody else is on the dev branch because we support you're development smart guy. So you should treat this branch just as you would you're stable on when it comes to updates and deciding when shit is ready to push live.

    COP OUT - you're "draft" of a game is 3 years old. In business terms this is mature... Stop hiding behind alpha and man up. This build system was well intention ed but not ready.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    Are you going to treat them like a dog and just yell at them, or treat them like a human beings and just ask if they can try and help the modders out.
    Now I do agree they should fix these remembering issues as soon as possible. That is something I'd like to see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  15. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,740
    When I paste a ship from workshop... small block ship.... it is a station, I then have to convert to ship to make it move, this is on planet in natural gravity...

    *flips table*
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    Now there you go, Those are some useful pieces of information and good solutions to the problem. Do you see what happens when you actually try and think up better ways to solve issues instead of whining over them?
    From my experience, average game development from a studio like this is 5 to 6 years with a game this large. To be perfectly honest though the whole alpha, beta, gamma, whatever doesn't matter. What does matter is what the developers are doing to develop their game right now. Right now they're trying to improve existing features and make them easier to use and it would be a lot more appreciated if they got some actual ideas of how to fix the problems and a bit more of an indepth explination for why it is a problem. I think that's a much better way to vent your problems than whining because your life isn't going perfect.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    964
    Wheels in MP are now hilariously broken. If a client is using a wheeled vehicle and someone pastes something in, that vehicle's wheels detach and explode! :D

    Also did the memory leakage get worse with this patch? 16 GB of ram and I crashed after an hour on Mars.
     
  18. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you.
    Useless white-knighter who doesn't understand what a joke is.
    Why I'm bothering when I already had you on ignore anyway....yeah...I'm not sane.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,740
    I could hear the robocops.. i mean unlimited auto spawning robotic dogs.. pitter pattering around and I got frustrated and deleted the whole planet.. I win the game.

    That's enough for me today...... anymore is going to induce rage.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  21. Gwindalmir Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,006
    I also use it my other mods directly:

    Code:
                        if (MyAPIGateway.Multiplayer.IsServer)
                        {
                            var definitionId = new MyDefinitionId(typeof(MyObjectBuilder_Ingot), "Stone");
                            var definition = MyDefinitionManager.Static.GetDefinition(definitionId);
                           
                            if (definition == null)
                                return;
    
                            //if (!IsDummy)
                            m_gate.GetActionWithName("OnOff_Off").Apply(m_gate);
    
                            var amount = (MyFixedPoint)0.001;
    
                            // Check and add gravel to inventory if not present
                            var count = (m_gate as VRage.Game.Entity.MyEntity).InventoryCount;
                            for (int i = 0; i < count; i++)
                            {
                                var content = (MyObjectBuilder_PhysicalObject)MyObjectBuilderSerializer.CreateNewObject(definitionId);
                                MyObjectBuilder_InventoryItem inventoryItem = new MyObjectBuilder_InventoryItem { Amount = amount, Content = content };
                                var inventory = (m_gate as VRage.Game.Entity.MyEntity).GetInventoryBase();
    
                                if ((inventory as MyInventory).CanItemsBeAdded(amount, definitionId) && inventory.GetItemsCount() == 0)
                                {
                                    (inventory as MyInventory).AddItems(amount, inventoryItem.Content);
                                }
                            }
    
                            if ((m_gate as IMyReactor).UseConveyorSystem)
                                m_gate.GetActionWithName("UseConveyor").Apply(m_gate);
                        }
     
  22. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    It's actually quite funny. He ends up looking like the childish one. Little did he know I wasn't taking him seriously, but I was just having a bit of fun and asking if he can post something constructive instead of acting like he was above them (for lack of a better term). And let me guess, it's kind of hypocritical saying that considering I'm kinda doing the same. Yes, you're right; I can be hypocritical just like everyone even if they try to deny it. Don't misunderstand though, I was just fooling around a bit. He was the one who escalated it to an ignore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. SolarScavenger Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    81
    (whispering) Soooo close now. Almost there.
     
  24. atcrulesyou Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    45
    I don't think the block combining is that bad, but I would prefer if they kept all the single blocks in the G-menu as well. Say you're working on a project and it's all light armor slopes and large thrusters or something. It actually is more efficient in that case to have just those blocks selected on the toolbar instead of having to scroll to them every time you switch back and forth. Anyway I'd like both systems to be in place.

    +1 on the block position memory also. That definitely needs to happen.

    Side note, how did they decide what blocks would be grouped with what? Why are large and small thrusters in one group, but large and small reactors aren't? Why aren't all of the cockpits/flight seats in one group? Or the ship tools? If you're gonna do something, do the whole job....
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  25. taleden Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    48
    Is that in an in-game script, or a mod? Because they have slightly different APIs, with slightly different restrictions. So far I've been unable to get any in-game script to compile with any reference to "MyFixedPoint", even as a cast like you're using there, now that the type is prohibited.
     
  26. 666Savior Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    196

    A few points to bring up here.

    1. The new system is in first rendition.They will more than likely be updating and tweaking it for a bit before they call it "finished"
    2. A lot of senior(right word?) players actually welcomed this change. Mainly because ME had and since its introduction in ME a lot of people wanted it ported over to SE.
    3. The dev branch is designed to be the branch that gets rough-ish drafts. Thats technically what this entire game is supposed to get as it is EARLY ACCESS. However they changed it into a two branch system now. So stable gets to live with bugs for a month while dev branch gets all the new bugs and some old ones fixed every week.
    4. If you don't like the fact that you are being pushed incomplete pieces and improvements, why are you on dev branch? Or are you just here to get the new little pieces?
    5. Never expect the first introduction of a system to be perfect
    6. The only "new" branch is stable. Technically for the last however many years we've all been playing on the "dev" branch. It's only recently that they added a new branch. They aren't emphasizing the new branches, they're using the branches as they should be used. Dev for testing new bits and pieces, stable for people who don't want to deal with new bugs and stuff every week. (Kinda bad name for it though, called stable and there are bugs that could qualify it as unstable)


    And my last major point which i can never stress enough:

    We bought into an Early Access game. Which means a game that is not finished and is still in development. We are essentially beta testers for the game (technically alpha since game has yet to reach beta yet). Our job is to test the new bits that are added and provide constructive feedback to help shape and refine those bits into something that works well. Expect things to be broken and new introductions to not completely work.

    That is all
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Kham Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    478
    Very glad to hear that! Thanks for the info. As much as it's nice to see a less cluttered G menu, I only know most of the blocks by the number they always have assigned on my hot bar so this change was in no way 'intuitive' for me haha. Good to know I can still have my "ones", "twos", and "tray three, button fives" etc.
     
  28. Dantheotherone Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    18

    I agree with you. On the very day when they split it into two branches the doomsayers were saying that it would fail and cause a host of problems. Talk about betting against something before it even got a chance.
    Before I had slots one and two filled up with the basic components that I needed and now it all fits on half of one slot. It is no big thing to press 'R' to change from small to large. To me this is a good improvement.
    Just like the change to the HUD was to reduce clutter on the screen. Before it was all or nothing with the tab key. Speaking of keys you said "As for the new create new grid system the only complaint I have with it is the ability to toggle off creating a new grid to avoid miss clicks. How about have a button like j as a toggle. It's not used and reminds me of ME's dynamic mode."
    Isn't the 'J' used for opening and closing the visor?
    Like you said all this comes to is adapting. Anybody who plays this game for the first time is up against a steep learning curve until they get used to it and the same applies to the "veterans" playing this new system.
    Many changes have come in the years I have played this game. I have over two thousand hours in this game and it was a little confusing the first time I played it. Just like "engineers" I figured it out. It took me a total of about five minutes to get used to the new system and in my opinion I like it.
     
  29. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,740
    Heavy Armor Block is Not Available For Small Ship?

    What? Is this intended change? I cannot place heavy armor blocks on small ship, it just gives me the above message in red text.

    *edit*

    I have to press "R" to change the block size..... oookkk.. I get it now..
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  30. Drui Keen Update Guy Staff

    Messages:
    1,415
    Update
    If you want to place individual block variants to your toolbar, you still can - just text search for the block name in the G screen and place it in the toolbar as usual.
    Sorry for the confussion and not including this info in the original post.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
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