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Update 01.142 - Revised Building System

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jun 30, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. taleden Trainee Engineer

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    48
    No worries, thanks for troubleshooting. :) MyFixedPoint is once again whitelisted in today's hotfix, so that point is moot anyway.
    I had lots of TIM users reporting bugs that turned out to just be block ownership issues, so I added that test to produce a debug message to cut down on having to explain the issue all the time. It's been awhile since I did that so maybe it's unnecessary now, but I think what was happening was TIM would see a block with a name tag and try to do something with it as a result (turn it on or off, disable its conveyor system, change panel text, etc) and silently fail because of the block ownership and/or faction share setting.

    edit: Deleted a question about UseConveyorSystem; looks like I have to check the property on an IMyInventoryOwner, but then change the setting on an IMyTerminalBlock via GetActionWithName. Unintuitive, but it works.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  2. CrazyDoc_SW Trainee Engineer

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    2
    Sigh... Thanks Keen, for all the updates and hotfixes. Like the ones to fix issues with one mod. That not everyone uses. That is FORCED on you. So the DS you love to play on is inaccessible because you can't opt out of that ONE MOD hotfix update. So... Thanks. Guess I'll play something else until my DS updates and restarts.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. MinecraftMoosedenis Trainee Engineer

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    7
    This new building system is cool and all, but it's not very useful, and most definitely SLOWS the build process rather than accelerates it. 1: Now it does not remember which block rotation you had it set to/ you must rotate EVERY BLOCK YOU PLACE, literally, one at a time, or at least with slopes and stuff. 2: It does not remember which variant you were placing and defaults to the small thruster (not small ship thrusters, just small thrusters) and forgets the rotation. 3: Windows do not seem to switch to the inverted types when you scroll the mouse wheel up/down. This has been VERY annoying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. joeblack616 Apprentice Engineer

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    225
    We are fixing most common crashes for stable
    --- Automerge ---
    That's why we created stable branch... If you are volunteering for development, you are taking risk of such things and proper reports for them so they will be fixed.
    --- Automerge ---

    That mod caused most crashes in game. Just because its not used by everyone it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Krougal Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,012
    Yes, but I think what he is referring to is the fact that the way the update notes come across in game client is misleading people who indeed are on "so-called stable branch"
    As we've seen and discussed around here, this is happening to a lot of people. Like anyone who doesn't read these forums.
    It was a poor decision, poorly timed and poorly executed...anyway...it is what it is, and it's your problem not mine.
     
  6. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,668
    I am aware... realistically though everyone volunteered the moment they purchased the game, regardless of there being a slower update branch refereed to as "Stable" :D

    I usually do report bugs, every week, for over a year now...

    :carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton::carlton:
    --- Automerge ---
    I don't think so, I've never changed that setting.. yesterday I blew up the legs of the pirate base that is near the start base on earth start, and it stayed static in the air.. didn't fall..

    That was a newly created world at default settings.
     
  7. iTrap Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Not finding conveyor tube either, and not being able to place it even if its on hotbar from previous save.
    G menu should indeed display all blocks IMO.
    I do like to grouping/scroll idea, but maybe if you could customize it yourself?
     
  8. Asylumdown Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    Sigh. Reading through these update threads makes my heart hurt for the people at Keen who have to read the inevitable abuse that gets hurled at them every week.

    I get that some of you love this game enough to feel passionately about it, but if you keep biting the hand that feeds you, there may come a time when the people who've dedicated their lives to making sweet games for people like you begin questioning what the heck they're doing any of this for. There is no shortage of jobs in the world for competent developers, many of which probably pay better and don't come with a forum of vipers that attack you at every turn.

    Keen has updated this game 26 times since I shelled out $27.99 for it, so the way I see it, I've had the benefit of a full team of developers working tirelessly to improve a game I love for a little over $1.00/week. Which is insane. Those of you who've owned this game longer should consider that next time you feel entitled to swear, condescend, or belittle when describing Keen's game in Keen's forum.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Register311 Trainee Engineer

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    3
    Thanks for the update! But ... Anybody knows which file to adjust camera exposure? Very bright environment :( I have not found yet, need to do something.
     
  10. Exanimis Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Could you make also a text search/filter for assembler ? Same as in inventory.
     
  11. GDI-BOSS Trainee Engineer

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    35
    Hi guys,when i aproach a raiding station or argentavis com to me,they produce drones but dont move,,its autopilot borken??
     
  12. Vanguard Trainee Engineer

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    21
    I just spent my first hour playing this patch looking like the muppet that bashes his face into his piano through frustration. What the absolute $@& is going on!? This is just another example of a game where it appears the devs have never played their own game. I just bought this game a few weeks ago, and initially was wondering why there was so much frustration in the forums as I hadn't experienced any of the issues folks were complaining about. Then I tried to make something more advanced than a box with engines, and made the mistake of trying rotors and pistons. So, lesson learned... after 2 weeks I've exhausted everything I can do which kept the game interesting, everything else causes shit to blow up, and NOW... with this wonderful patch, even building a BOX is a pain in the ass if it has any slopes or corners...

    I guess I'll just go build a borg cube and fly it around in space since I don't have 16 GB to render a planet, which BTW brings up another point... If I launch a planet based scenario... it uses about 8+ GB of ram... walk away from my computer for an hour or so, come back, it's only using 800MB - 1.3GB... what that says is, the game only needs about 1-2 GB of ram, it's simply the way to launcher has been coded and possibly extremely shitty garbage collection that causes this... WOW.
     
  13. zDeveloper10 Junior Engineer

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    742
    piston/rotor explosive physics and loadscreen ram o.d. are unfortunately longstanding,and occasionally joked about("clang") issues
     
  14. Legolas6531 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    [​IMG]

    Can we all please remember that this is the first installment of this new building system and it will be made better and optimized before too long? Or are we all going to throw a fit when things are added in an update and then throw a fit when things are not added in an update?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Saitek Trainee Engineer

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    9
    what about block symmetry? it seems not to work like before
     
  16. Apsyc Apprentice Engineer

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    108
    Could this be a precursor to multi-grids?
     
  17. Krougal Senior Engineer

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    1,012
    Why don't you put a sock in it.
    Really, all you people who feel the need to defend Keen from any negative opinion are just getting tiring.
    You don't add any value to any discussion by telling people to stop complaining, be happy with what they get, and hide behind "this is alpha".
    Actually I think they still call it a pre-alpha. Can call it whatever they want, but seperate dev and "stable" versions not a very alpha thing to do.
    If Keen felt the need to make excuses I'm sure they could do it on their own without your help.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  18. Apsyc Apprentice Engineer

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    108
    You have no idea what you're talking about. Keen is too busy making a game to worry about some ungrateful turd whining on the internet. So if anyone should put a sock in it, it's you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Legolas6531 Trainee Engineer

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    99
    Do you know how game development works? Do you think code can just be copy-pasted from other games and it all just works? This game is being built on a modified engine, basically from scratch. This game has more complexities than you care to imagine or understand. Right now it's all about throwing the features onto the platform and then organizing it once it hits beta. Other games have relatively simple mechanics and are made on already-built engines, with a minor tweak and some scripts added to it. It's not any easier, but major head aches are avoided.

    I am taking courses on game development and 3d modeling, not much of the programming. But I have seen what goes into game programming and I can assure you that it is something that people definitely take for granted.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. Krougal Senior Engineer

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    1,012
    That's nice Mr Expert. Come talk to me again when you get some life experience.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  21. Apsyc Apprentice Engineer

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    108
    Come talk to us when you get that bug out of your ass.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. CillianRaynor Trainee Engineer

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    9
    AMBIENT LIGHTING
     
  23. Legolas6531 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    What does that mean? Are you saying that I need to grow up before I can argue with you? What an ironic comment to make, since you are giving me nice names like "Mr. Expert," don't even state any sort of argument against my statements, and telling me to "get some life experience" before I can "talk to [you] again."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. ATMLVE Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    102
    Yeah the new build system is no good. I now have to be practically right in front of something to place a block on it, otherwise it just has me place something in mid space.
    And not only that, but ctrl now places a block! Keen, did you forget that ctrl+mouse wheel used to ZOOM blocks and things around?

    So you changed the build system so that you now have to be right in front of something to put a block on it, and then you took the button that used to zoom things and made it a "place block" button? Are you TRYING to troll us? Does anyone who plays the game actually test these things??

    And honestly, if you're going to take all the basic controls and change them so that they do something else, at least allow the people who have been playing the game the same way for years to have the OPTION of changing it back to normal... Like what the heck, who was complaining about build mode?

    On a side note, the g menu is fantastic. That's awesome.

    EDIT: I also opened up a world with lots of projectors in it, and the screen went black upon loading. After a while I alt tabbed and i can hear music and everything but the game is definitely not responding besides that, I can't get it to show anything.

    EDIT 2: Second time loading, entire screen was a weird light green-ish white and I can see some blocks in projector form off to the side. I don't think any projections should be showing up though. Screen is frozen.

    EDIT 3: Exact same result as my second attempt, except the screen was pink. I think the game is having issues loading lots of projections at once, even though they're all inactive.
    --- Automerge ---
    But please, for the love of spode, at least allow me the option to be able to place and delete blocks on ships that are more than 10 meters in front of me. This is outrageously inconvenient for building in creative.

    I also have to say, that changing the scroll thing to going through different types of the same block... Is actually pretty nice and convenient. Because then they're orientated the same way. I like that part as well. However, I do NOT like the fact that the orientation resets of you switch away from it.

    I have since changed the new ctrl key mapping to something I never hit, so at least that is still sorta solved, although the not-auto-zooming thing is still irritating and a very unwelcome change. It's way more inconvenient than a landing gear as the first block was.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  25. fullforward Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    Hello everyone

    First I thank all the keen software coders for your hard work, and the people who have worked for the idea of this game. Many things are done brilliantly and well. I have enjoyed the game ... But then I went multiplayer.

    Seriously, three years of constant developement by an actual software house and the net code is so bad that unless the server admin is a script wizard, a dedicated server cannot hold even ten players without coughing blood. And even if the admin does everything right, at 20 players it gets hard trying to enjoy the experience. It does not matter alpha, early access, lack of coffee whatever, 3 years is a long time.

    I am sure there are even devs in the company who agree with me that the lack of leadership and resolve in project management has been significant. The most appalling example is that even at this point using rotors and pistons is like playing Russian roulette with three bullets.

    People ask what are the actual plans and time table with bringing mp to acceptable functionality and there is never answer. What are they?

    I am also concerned about what happens to the so called stable branch when a months worth of jumble is added. Patiently waiting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  26. Vanguard Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    21
    I've been conteplating how to repond to this thread for awhile... I have to go with Krougal on this one, the White Knighting honestly makes me gag. As a customer, I'm encouraged to provide feedback, positive or negative on the latest updates. White Knights on the other hand don't have any right speaking on behalf of the development team, usually speculating out of their rear ends to do so, and more often than not, with zero credibility or knowledge in the domain to be able to defend it.

    Legolas, I do work for a software house, and I am indeed very familiar with how development works. Look, I'm not looking to bash the developers, I'm venting frustration that I feel is well warranted. Anyone who wants to stand behind 3+ years of development and call it Alpha (or pre-alpha for that matter) for a game that should take no longer than 1 to 1.5 years to develop in full is ridiculous. Here is where the frustration lies... Software companies pay big bucks, $100K to tens of millions on market research... and then based on the data, developers much like myself are grudgingly forced to make code changes we may not personally agree with, but..,. it's what the community wants, and guess what, that's who we're building this for, and that's who pays the bills. I don't see any of that here... I think there's another thread on this forum with something like 75% revert to original windows and 13% don't give a shit. I've never seen the original windows, but what I do see is that if they were reverted, 85+% of the peeps would be happy/don't care, and 15%- would be unhappy... simple math... guess what, not going to happen. Why not? Because Keen apparently takes data other companies would pay millions for and flushes it down the toilet, to my amazement. This is because most major software companies can't go early access and aren't blessed with this info... something of a reputation and trade secrets prevent it...

    According to Steam:
    What is Early Access?
    Get immediate access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement. These are games that evolve as you play them, as you give feedback, and as the developers update and add content.

    We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community.

    Can someone point me to where this is taking place? Because it's become common knowledge many software companies have confused early access with KICKSTARTER... I guess this is what led steam to add "Developers have varying approaches, so it's a good idea to look at a store page before you jump into any game."

    I've only been around for a really, REALLY short amount of time. That said, let me give you a quick perspective on what I see on arrival... Clang isn't funny anymore. No community member wants to see a feature such as solar panels on/off introduced until Clang is buried and put to bed. Taking months to years to get a piston and rotor to go up and down and round and round is um, embarrassing. Seriously, why would this not be a top priority? What project manager put solar panels higher on the priority list that fixing core issues preventing us from encouraging our friends to buy this game. Hey Joe, solar panels can go on and off now man!!! It's the time to buy, get in here!

    Pro-tip: Create a stable branch when you have one... which you don't. 6+ GB of RAM which gets garbage collected in the first 5 minutes of gameplay... unacceptable, even for alpha. Just the expense of RAM in your test environment alone would justify squashing this bug, seriously.

    Conclusion, I'm with fullforward on this one... worst project management ever. Did you guys hire some folks from Auran/N3V!?

    Edit:SP
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  27. ziant Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    really liking the building system...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. AtomicJunkie Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    12
    The new "new ship/station" building system is annoying me too. The most time you build something, you build it on a ship or station which is already there.
    So this feature of building blocks everywhere should be only active with some key press or so. Or maybe toggable. I need it only when I build something new.
    Now it often happens that I accidently build a block in the middle of nowhere.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  29. Legolas6531 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    I agree with what you say wholeheartedly, but some people could word what they say with less anger and provide actual feedback besides "this is garbage and you all suck. What are you people doing with this trash?"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. fabricator77 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    399
    I've found the new block placement system to be good in concept. I assume remembering what block type/orientation was used last will be implemented next, no doubt needs rewriting.

    The distance I need to be from an existing ship/station before I can attach a block to it, is too short. It slows down building structures quite a lot.
    Would make sense to have it default to join to existing grid, unless facing away from existing blocks (eg no rayhit) or say 20M away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
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