Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Update 01.169 DEV - Physics and Voxel Optimizations, Deluxe Edition

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jan 5, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. |Ñ| Ederrn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    Completely agree with this!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    am i really going to buy the old SE version just to enjoy those awesome running animation?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Particulator Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    13
    The more that things change, the more they stay the same.

    I bought this game in june 2014 back when the "About this game" was selling us a game for multiplayer mayhem.
    Based on what we've seen so far, Keen dropped that flag long ago because they know that they can't deliver and all the patching done since hasn't fix anything that was wrong.

    Multiplayer was the front feature, it was why many, sooooo many of us have paid for this game yet, it remains to be seen and they want us to be "more" supportive?!
    Give them more money? Buy the 2013 release version?! come on this must be a joke (a bad one) because IMO the bugginess from back then can still be feel today.
    I say HELL NO!!! not a single penny more.
    Why?... some of you will ask. Simply because instead of paying for a good team of coders so they can come up with a stable multiplayer game that runs smoothly, they came up with more "content", more stuff to build.

    Yeah... way to go Keen. Keep on piling on top of those shaky foundations, the house is coming down anyway.
    How much time, patching and money will it take to have those damned pistons, wheels, rotors and dedicated server fixed?
    That's 2½ years now you've been at it and still, week after week the same bug issues.
    Nothing has changed so I keep saying to my friends that want to play this game, KEEP YOUR MONEY IN YOUR POCKETS!!!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 7
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Nosaj Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    12
    I think the game has improved since I bought it some 3 years ago. But I recon that it still has very old and new bugs still crawling all over the place. Off the top of my head as of newest patch (Jan 9th 2017):

    -Small grid piston head malfunctioning. (Seems to be fixed and breaks or explodes when piston extends)
    -Wheels are still so bad that I have completely given up on using them. (Way too many issues to mention here. Last tried them Jan 7th 2017)
    -I've also completely given up on the multiplayer gaming as it simply does not work well enough to be enjoyed. (Also too many issues but to mention a few: when another player flies his/her ship, ship disappears or goes some other places out of sight while player is seen flying, sitting in some invisible seat. I got trapped into another player's ship which had two cockpits, no way to get out. Pistons, rotors, sorter blocks and worst of all wheels, are useless in multiplayer. Many random multiplayer game crash to desktop. Many other issues. (Last played multiplayer early Jan 2017.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. szalkerous Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    76
    Not trying to be unnecessarily critical, but players need to understand the following:

    • Keen rarely if ever reads these Changelog comments. Even more so, they don't change any of their plans to address the issues reported here.
    • Keen doesn't respond to support emails. They may have at some point responded to bug reports on the forums but I've never seen it.
    • Keen apparently has some different idea on what "priority" means, and I'm not entirely convinced they employ any professional QA Engineers.
    • I really don't know if Keen is well versed in game development. The game is cool, I like it, but the average lifespan of critical, game hindering bugs leads me to believe they're doing some of this stuff by the seat of their pants, as opposed to a AAA game studio that has decades of experience with these types of project lifecycles.
    • Early Access is a catch-all excuse for anything we ever complain about.
    I find it an interesting exercise to compare KSH/Space Engineers with The Fun Pimps/7 Days to Die. Both studios are amateur indie companies. Both studios entered their flagship games into the EA program at about the same time (7 Days was December 13, 2013, Space Engineers was October 23, 2013). Both studios have direct lines of communication to their players (YouTube). Both games are voxel sandbox games (although they are apples/oranges for direct comparison otherwise).

    But one area that TFP wins clearly against KSH is that they have one of the owners constantly in discussion with the community on their official forums, and does a large Q&A on a weekly basis to both hear about major bugs and problems, suggestions, and answer questions about direction and roadmap. KSH could take a page out of that PR strategy and get someone extremely involved with the folks on the forums instead of a one-way 2 minute weekly YouTube video and summary of changes in the patch.

    The other area that TFP/7 Days To Die wins is that they do NOT do weekly patches, or even monthly ones. They release major Alpha milestone updates and patch any major/critical bugs that arise from it, after which they move on to closed development on the next milestone. This prevents a lot of overhead from testing and building for release and allows the engineers to accomplish a lot more before they're interrupted (their words, not mine--although as a senior software engineer myself, I agree). I think (even though this won't be a popular opinion) that KSH should stop and focus on critical bugs, and then the weekly public access should probably stop and move to a monthly (or quarterly) release model. The developers probably can't make enough of a dent within half a week (the other half being used for testing and release), and it gives the perception that nearly nothing is getting addressed... thus angering the community.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    it has its good times and bad times.

    we're along for the ride I just like posting any bugs i come across.
    its a challenging game and not by difficulty.

    I'm going to be sad when it reaches the point where it can no longer be updated.

    just like with starbound nightly builds
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    • Atmospheric thrusters look terrible, because they're rounded and leave enormous gaps.
    • Ion thrusters look ok because they have a blocky base. But I'd love to make them even blockier; the armored thrusters mod still needs to be made vanilla.
    • Small hydrogen thrusters looked ok before the new block models. Now they're too busy. Large hydrogen thrusters always looked bad, because they have a gap.
    • Gravity generators are generally mounted on the floor. But I wouldn't say no to a gravity generator that was more blocky and could attach on all 6 faces.
    • Hydrogen tanks look terrible, because they're rounded and leave enormous gaps. Oxygen tanks are rounded, but the ends are blockier. But I'd be ok if they were basically 1x1x2 rectangular solids with slightly convex faces.
    • Rounded armor blocks are rarely used except in a decorative fashion.
    • Also, let me add to your list. Large grid connectors are too rounded. They should be identical to the 6-way connector block, except one face should have the docking point.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    Not to be picky about it, but Bethesda made the Skyrim Special Edition free for those who had bought all the paid DLC. I wish Keen had done the same, just because it means I would have DLC to buy (which I would in a second).
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    If keen made a DLC of awesome mods/scenarios they made. I would possibly buy it if they could guarantee they would pay constant attention to them (not like they did with the last mods they made).

    If keen wants money badly that is the way to go. Get someone full time to make scenarios. Minor transactions to buy, tiny 4-5 hour missions. More $ for day long missions. Go fucking all out an make an X3 universe and you KNOW people will pay for it.

    MY biggest gripe with keen though isn't really the MP or pistons/rotors or even speed. Its the fact that we cannot have neutral teams that can become enemies if attacked. All teams are enemies. This ruins all the immersion mods. Can't have true trade stations, police, or military force and so on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  10. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    270
    Not sure what happened since last update, but the game has slowed down so much.

    Every couple of seconds it just freezes and then tries to catch up.
    It's not framerate nor simspeed.
    Even on the lowest graphic setting it happens, and my pc is kind of a beast (except for my 2GB video memory, but should that really be an issue??)
     
  11. chemicalscum Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    318
    Did something change of how pistons work? I know using them is always risky and not always recommended, but I always use a couple for my rovers for replacing wheels etc. But in stead of pushing the rover up, the rover gets launched high into the air in an unstoppable spin, no matter how slowly the pistons extend. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227

    yeahhh i've had that happen as well..

    I used four pistons to "jack" up muh rover so i could slap bigger more american tires on it and when they extended as far as they could the vehicle began spinning forwards.
    I did put a light armor block on the end of each piston but i don't see how that could cause it to defy laws of gravity...then again in true spartan style...

    THIS...IS...SPACE...engineers.

    had to shoot the pistons off before the thing tore itself apart.
     
  13. Zilla Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    At 1440p with settings set to ultra, i use up to 7600mb of Vram. So your 2GB may be the problem. Download evga's precision -or equal- and monitor your vram while ingame.
     
  14. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,725
    What video card do you have?
     
  15. Zilla Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    1070
     
  16. Sero93 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    Getting the multiplayer stable is keens major task for a while now, but i dont see a good solution anywhere near... Yes they improved a lot, but only the plain multiplayer with ships, voxels and mining is close to be in an enjoyable state. It took them way too long to fix the basic netcode so i don't see, that they are able to fix the more advanced problems like Pistons/rotors/wheels.
    Still i hope for a breakthrough. what i don't understand is, why they brought out planets... yes the retardness here is strong and everybody wants to have this and that, but so many resources got put into planets, instead of the Multiplayer netcode. Seems fine to me, IF(!) SE would be a good singleplayer game, but this game is centered about multiplayer...
    i hope MP will get fixed in the near future, so Space enginners can finally consume all that pesky freetime i've got...
     
  17. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    I got a 4.5GB download this morning, any patch notes?
     
  18. Zilla Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    Do you seriously think the same person that worked on the multiplayer netcode worked on planets? Are you also upset that their artist redid blocks instead of writing complex code to fix bugs?

    What you don't understand is how games are produced.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Sero93 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    i do understand, but in an indie Team the hole team worked on the planet code. the visuall things like blocks are made from other people, but the core developer team was doing the planets and now the netcode. Do you not udnerstand, that a dedicated MP game should fix its netcode within a reasonable time? A solid netcode is no withccraft, as there are plenty of similar games out, where you could learn from how to handle things
     
  20. g4borg Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    271
    It is often a hard decision while planning a game, if you want to break down the complexity beforehand, to be able to control all choices, and get everything solid, that is possible, or to simulate as much as possible, and try to learn how to summarize it with some abstraction.

    I am pretty sure, Keen knows they have to improve the abstraction, and fix the netcode bugs as they go. At least, now they have a foundation to build it on. I don't mind if they take their time, polishing it, before announcing new stuff yet again.

    And Indie only means, they are not owned - they do have expanded their team over time. And I find it cool, that they took the success and invested it into more bold plans.
     
  21. Hemp Plan[e]t Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    157
    bring me some cookies
     
  22. Zilla Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    Sorry didnt realize you worked for Keen or know all the inner workings of their company.
     
  23. Sero93 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    "Do you seriously think the same person that worked on the multiplayer netcode worked on planets?"
    but you do?
     
  24. Zilla Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    No, but i will tell you what i do know.

    Back in mid 2015, Keen had 50 employees.
     
  25. Tau Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    Deluxe > luxurious or sumptuous; of a superior kind.
    superior, If the old version is better, why should one buy the new one? and not the "Deluxe" Humph..
    For one, We should still be able to use it, Its just an old version.
    For two, its not "Better" its worse, so Not deluxe.
    For three, Ladder DLC confirmed.
    For four, I know you just want more money for the game, perhaps you should've added cosmetic character models? Not a bad idea, has no impact on gameplay, and it would make the user feel like they've actually gotten something.... Not just been downgraded for money.



    Just an idea~
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. TidusKlein Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    216
    Keen needs some PR people on yhere team, the ME guys have great PR deep flame seems to be very intouch with the community, but the SE guys...they feel like there all setting in the dark away from the comunity chiping away at what ever they feel is priority, some one for the SE team needs to stand up and be like Deepflame for SE or mark needs to find a person for it and fast.

    I also believe that at somepoints, a total rework is needed, you can only patch improve and update a outdated frame for so long untill the dimmishing returns are well not worth it, keen might need to start looking into, working on the games very foundation ripping it out and starting over, a monumental task but in the end would be sooo worth it
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. MrJinx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    122
    Quote:
    [​IMG]
    typical andorian! so pessimistic!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 2
  28. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    270
    EVGA GTX 960
     
  29. Tau Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    To what do you disagree with Floppy?
    Mine sharing your thoughts rather then just blindly pressing the disagree button.
    i Thought everything i said there was a fact, Oh, it was.

    Correct your rating, Thanks.
    --- Automerge ---
    "Glitch Engineers"
    - Engineer your way around our complex bugs! Fun for the whole family (People that hate bugs are not included, Only In-Game)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,725
    I hope this doesn't happen when they update the skybox.... again... looking blurry when zooming in.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.