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Update 01.173 DEV - New Skybox

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Feb 2, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. MadMax Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    62
    We love y'all; don't get me wrong, but it looks like y'all just nuked a really intriguing part of the game. If Pistons and rotors and all of the other "cool" mechanical parts where actually reliable tools at this point in time, then I could understand this move as we could easily just adapt with moving parts to account for the change.

    However; without being able to rely on those pieces, you have effectively destroyed the utility of the mobile welder in that no one needs a welder that only welds one block at a time and cannot move (unless you're willing to risk a random explosion.)

    Could it do with being tightened up some? Arguably. I just don't see the justification for completely nuking them as seems to be the case.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    131
    I was killed once by welders when I first decided to try out a welding pit. I then learnt to put a switch at a safe distance and turn them on from there. It's not that hard to learn. (OK admittedly I have stupidly walked into the damn things again since, but I was being stupid.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Mobiyus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    253
    @Lurch84

    Fair point. I know my mindset does have flaws and I realize people pushing boundaries most likely helped make positive changes (Example: Tapping-sized ships pushing devs to make optimizations or modders using an exploit to make cross-grid communication possible, ultimately making Keen adding it as an official feature). Also true that these builds need to be tested for feedback purposes, as you mentioned. But there's a difference between simply testing a feature, and dedicating most of your efforts to it / around it. I just wish for people to avoid getting too involved in their build and then be disappointed and leave the game forever. It's too soon yet to get sentimentally involved with what you build. Look at all those PMW's builders twiddling their thumbs right now, I really hope they have something else to do in the game :(
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  4. Lurch84 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    63
    @Mobiyus

    As I said I agree with that part (it is only a game after all), just the other bit didn't sit right. Why I commented as a agree/disagree didn't fit :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    I'm sorry, but I don't think the people in the office can have a constructive conversation about welders if they don't know how welders are used by a significant section of the playerbase. So I have to ask a couple questions to make sure we're on the same page before going forward:

    1. Do people in the office know what players mean when we refer to PMWs?

    2. Do those people understand why PMWs make the game so much fun to play, and are such an integral part of why Space Engineers has had such success?

    3. Do those people understand how PMWs work in-game? That is, do they ever get in-game and design them themselves?

    TL;DR: PMWs are one of the few things that make Space Engineers worth the frustration of dealing with Clang, and one of the few things that set it ahead of its competitors. We're trying to help you guys make the game better. Please listen to us.

    Edit: also, if the problem is that something is killing new players, you guys are gonna have to change a lot more than just welders. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    I would actually recommend keeping the welder lethality, as it is amongst the best wolf/saberiod defense mechanisms, as it only requires energy. Grinders can work, but then you run into issues of accidently grinder other grids, or sub grids.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Is there going to be a road map or anything in the near future?

    And also, are the weekly updates really necessary if you're not actually adding anything?

    Couldn't you just push bug fixes whenever you want and just keep a single changelog thread updated?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. ATMLVE Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    102
    I know they're not always trying to piss off the community. They definitely have a hidden agenda to some extent, I mean the window tint change took forever to implement and they ignored any and all feedback on it. I am one that usually is optimistic and positive about this game, but there is quite often a lack of communication. Ive been asking for a month now for them to provide new tutorials on visual scripting, I have not yet received a response, and it is next to impossible that they haven't seen my posts. Like, if the answer is no, then tell me that. But they ignore. They always ignore.

    What I'm saying is the game is plagued with bugs and errors and problems that didn't exist a year ago. There are just as many bugs now as there were then. And all of them are different. I understand fixing bugs in a big game like this is difficult. I have (very limited) coding and programming experience. But there is an extreme lack of communication on their part, they do not acknowledge most bug reports, they do not acknowledge criticism or bugs here, and every update just adds new bugs.

    Perhaps it is a curse with Space Engineers that other games don't have, that ensures that Space Engineers is in a constant state of bugs. Every other game I am a part of that gets updates generally loses bugs over time. But the number of bugs in Space Engineers has practically never changed and the developers rarely acknowledge any them.

    Also, pulling out the "you don't do what they do so you can't critisize their work" is the oldest and dumbest trick in the argument book.

    And also again, If you mean to tell me that every new bug that has come up in the game over the last few years is a result of fixing another bug that was magically working with it to produce the actual intended result, then YOU are the one without a coding clue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. YesWeCant Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    40

    Guys, what ship is dat?
    The one you see if you don't play the video.
    It hasn't been mentioned in the update video and I can't seem to find it on the workshop, can someone please help me?

    Thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. UrbanLegend Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    224

    Yeah that Phoenix skybox is way better. I get that it's a game, but I hate the whole "nebula space clouds" phenomenon common in games and movies (besides Star Wars). Look up in the sky at night. Do you see bright blue and red clouds? Even if you were actually in a nebula, it wouldn't look like that.

    I like my outer space pitch black and filled with small lonely points of light from stars unfathomly far away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Jenky Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    This welder range reduction is by far the worst balance update ever for this game. Killing new players is such a weak excuse for such a dramatic change to a core mechanic. Why not just reduce the damage range?? Make a new collision mesh that checks for players and stop hijacking the mesh that checks for everything else. Or better yet, everyone already knows to put a sensor on it that doesn't detect players. Build that into the welder itself so it can't turn on when a player is in rage. Something. Anything. There are so many solutions to this that weren't even explored before rolling out this change out of nowhere.
    As for the realism/balance motivations? I don't know, I always saw the welders as larger versions of the assembler and the model just a placeholder. Less of a dumb fixed welding torch that is unrealistic anyway, and more of an advanced robotic construction arm. You know... something like these ones that exist in real life right now:

    [​IMG]

    This is such a disappointing decision. Ironically relevant to engineering, it is the definition of "design by committee". The concern to balance the interests of new and veteran players is an admirable thing. However that's a conversation that needs to involve new and veteran players, and not just company playtesters.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Clanner Jake Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    197
    hotfix came out and i can't update "dedicatedserver64\sandbox.game.dll"*edit- after all the breaks and gimps i've officially lost interest in SE again. the sim menu speed is a joke, and none of the core features work, worse yet keen is dead set on ruining the ones that halfway work. thanks for a few years keen, i bought 3 copies and you can't make the game run so i'm done for now. one day this game will be stable, i hope you have those initial buyers still playing by then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,508
    I am not liking the wielder change.

    Change the range that it damages player, not the range it effects blocks.

    *edit*

    You know who you are.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    *editit*

    The inner nozzle of the ion thruster is really nice, the inner nozzle of the hydrogen thruster is a strange looking nip.... it would look good to have a nicer looking inner nozzle for the hydrogen thruster.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. AedanXaelan Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    310
    Anybody else having issues with dedicated servers not saving (auto or manual) since the hotfix?
     
  15. Enea Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    13
    Can we have a slider on the welder to increase its range (with increased ranges using more power) and default it the range to min when first built? (maybe this will stop people unaware running into it)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Or we could just let them learn not to stand next to the glowing red thing with sparks flying from it.

    I get the distinct impression that Someone Important who doesn't play SE much sat down with the game and got themselves killed. That seems to be the kind of thing that causes these 90-degree turns that go against what the players want.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  17. puttyEngineer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    35
    Why not SE dev try spend 1-2 hour, everyday, doing stuff they don't like but need to do; like fixing bug!
    Place a timer on your desktop and pledge to yourself: "today, for this 2 hour only, I'm going to attempt to fix the stupidest bug that I had no idea about, just this 2 hour, then I'm free to do whatever; play minesweeper or watch movies, It's my right"**

    **This is a strategy for fixing procrastination.

    It applies to designer & artist too, pick something that you NEED to do, put it on a timer.

    2 hour is only 0.08 fraction of your day.

    You have to do it either way.

    Avoid it, then you are not saving yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law
    The job will pile up & those new job has nothing to do with the game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  18. Sarekh Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,175

    yeah, CEO-level decision making, absolutely!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Pauli Rikula Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    69
    If you go out on countryside far away from big cities, you can actually see the milky shades of the milky way. It's pretty real.
     
  20. Uranius Crack Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    I just can't comprehend why anyone thought it would be a good idea to reduce the welder range. I get that this is an early acces game, and everything is suject to change, but this is just stupid. Like the removal of negative angles on rotors, I'm wondering if this decision was made by the same person...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  21. puttyEngineer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    35
    I think this is because the person is not honest. He might try to fix something else but (for some reason) won't say it. So you'd say: "this reduce death" because that what someone else want to hear.

    Politics
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. ATMLVE Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    102
    That's what I'm saying man. Theres a hidden agenda somewhere...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    Honestly there's just one thing about it that pisses me off: That the change happened in DEV and STABLE at the same time. Now we have a UESC contest with 60+ entries that is all fucked up because of a random welder nerf that DID NOT GO THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.

    This defeats the purpose of having separate branches if things are going to happen this way.

    Nerfing welders in Dev? OK sure try it and we will have our opinions about it, feedback, etc. But WHY STABLE?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    Another completely unnecessary own goal by Keen due to their own dysfunctional organisation.

    They plugged that very same contest in their patch video:



    And then they broke the contestants creations about a day after the deadline. Those UESC guys put a lot of work into those contests, as do the contestants, and then they get blindsided by a random, ill considered and pointless patch. It is unjust and unfair and I hope there is a considerable backlash.

    I wish this kind of thing still surprised me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  25. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,399
    Relatedly, I have the same problem with a large grid welding ship, because it's still a common occurrence to enter a cockpit from the rear door but then leave it through the front one, because you were too close to the rear door when entering the cockpit, and consistency is lacking here as in many places. Being able to actually select which direction to exit in would be acceptable, having it pretty much random is not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  26. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    Industrial accidents happen. Welders and grinders that are several meters in size should be considered dangerous.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  27. Antichton Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    8
    So I was playing the game in offline mode, didn't get the patch for a bit, and saved the old welder models/data into a mod. If you want to just revert the changes to the welder radii, then you can use this mod (it's literally just the old version of the welders).

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=856856885
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Elfi Wolfe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    498
    And all the launch bay printers got hurt hard. right now with large grid printer launch bay. you can only build 1.5m x 1.5m x any m missiles. where as before you could build 1.5m x 6.5m (or wider) x any m missiles/drone/small ships
     
  29. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    I honestly don't think the people making decisions at Keen are aware of how guided player-made weapons are launched. Like, I know they featured a lidar guidance script, but I don't think anyone at Keen spends any time fiddling with PMWs.

    Which is a real shame, because when they're working they're hands down one of the coolest things about Space Engineers; no other game I know of has anything like that!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Thrak Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    535
    A good suggestion. What I found by placing a sensor is that, you can turn on and use the welder in the cockpit fine (the sensor doesn't "see" you in it) and as soon as you pop out, regardless of direction, welders are safely turned off.

    Bottom line: There are in-game solutions to prevent these accidents, i.e., engineers can create safer work environments. Building an auto-off function, without the need of an additional sensor, would be one way to help less experienced players while retaining full range and functionality for all players.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.