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Update 1.181.0 Major - Big Optimizations, Multithreaded Physics & More!

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by flexx, Jun 1, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    In other words: A i'm special and B this is all my fault.
    (And C: that's part of why i'm building big. You'll never find stuff like that unless someone goes out of their way to find and challenge the limits.)

    According to Akhera the Tapping sits at 96 % of the Physical Limit and while ADDING blocks has always been an issue with her i can absolutely assure you that removing blocks or entire sections has never lead to a crash. Not once. (Not counting the one time someone fired an Ore Torpedo at her but that was for fun more than anything.)
    I also don't see a problem with a ship being a display piece or not taking it into battle. There's enough World Options to make that useable even in Survival.

    Totally agreed.

    I think that's where some people get the wrong impression from people like me. Yes, i would like them to fix Havok, and i'm sure i've asked about it more than once in the early days, when i hadn't picked up on any of the technical stuff (remember - i'm no coder or programmer). But i DO know better now and i'm not asking them to fix Havok now. All I want right now is to remove that limiter again. It's one thing if they can't fix it, it's another if they make ships even smaller because of it. (Or, i suppose, "less detailled" would be more correct but depending on how and what you build that might be synonymous.)

    I've actually been secretly tinkering with that approach for the Nacelles. My main trouble in this regard is that the only way to make that work would be to lock Rotors or Connectors, otherwise shit just flies appart the moment you start moving. And locking at least Rotors makes it one grid again, so at least now i know why i can't rotor-lock two Tappings together, and even if it didn't: even locked Rotors move around in their sockets if you apply enough strength (like via Merge Block). So.... yeah.


    Well, for what it's worth there's been several hotfixes already.


    The Nanite Factory might be relevant to your interests, if you can stomach using mods.


    Havok (in regards to the shape limit, that is) IS stable, it just has a limit. The new Keen-imposed Limit doesn't fix that either, it merely makes it impossible to reach it - they haven't actually touched Havok. There's nothing TO touch, it's not a bug, it's a datafile maximum size. I'm fairly sure they couldn't change that if they wanted to. And as many, many people rightly like to mention: the overwhelming majority of players don't build on the scale where the limit is even an issue. You could turn most Survival-built ships into swizz cheese and chunky salza and wouldn't have to worry about it, mostly because at that point the ship starts flying appart in floating subgrids anyway. (And if you DID the new limit just effectively handed pvp-trolls something to exploit by min-maxing shapes.) The new limit doesn't help the majority, the new limit doesn't fix Havok or make it more stable and the minority that actually reaches it isn't getting any benefit out of it either.
     
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  2. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,556
    I pasted some stone in creative mode and it looks a bit strange...

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  3. Lé Grand Sárrazin Apprentice Engineer

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    125
    Awe, you're cute, dear, I roll like 150-200 mods on a regular day, depending on how I'm feelin'. I couldn't tell you what vanilla is even like anymore!! :woot:

    And, I do use Nanites, and enjoy them oh so greatly after my turrets decide to blow-up my own ship trying to shoot around corners!!
    It seems that turrets target from a central point that don't account for multiple barrels far left/right from that central point, and makes it so that when one side is clear to fire, when the other side shoots, it strikes my ship, or anything else unfortunate enough to get in the way.
    It's made using large multi-barreled modded turrets a real pain in the ass lately. Small, or single barreled weapons don't suffer this flaw nearly so much, for the obvious reasons.

    Thanks for the help though Rotal, it's always appreciated!! Cheers!!
    --- Automerge ---
    Is it bad this is all I think of when you made this statement!?!?:

    [​IMG]
    --- Automerge ---
    [​IMG]
     
  4. g4borg Apprentice Engineer

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    271
    Hm.
    I have no special insight into how exactly they do it in the SE Engine - but with some theory and practice in the matter, I do bet, having the option to branch out with some kind of connection block, that a) makes a fixed joint connection between the grids and b) keeps the grids still separate by logic should be theoretically possible. At least I do not see technically why not, if it would work with the rotors.

    In fact, I do not understand, why we don't have something else than rotors yet, also to connect small and large blocks, or create similar things like "docking bays", where your grids do not "merge", just "join". I really miss better options to connect small and big grids, and i do not like the solution either, how merging works, for docking.

    Of course, it kind of depends on the details, but I am pretty sure, the representation of the grid is the engine side of things, while filling up havoc - which imho only cares about the "colliders" they create - is another.

    This does include, that such joints of course would break easier or suffer similar issues like rotor connected builds, but at least, rotation could be avoided, and building many grids into one ship would make sense. Like a pure "Magnet lock block" kinda.

    I for one would be happy about such an addition. And technically, after my expertise, where there is a will, there is a way :p
    In a way, it would not only affect big building, but other stuff aswell, like decorations.

    (Even if personally, as long as there is no well networked linux server, I don't see this game going anywhere but building solo for myself, where I would not need a limit, naturally, except I am designing a ship for the still more hypothetical multiplayer, which I mostly still do - and for that I find limits quite okay, if not necessary)
     
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  5. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    @g4borg I'm fairly sure they think the Connector or the Landing Gear is fine for that; i don't really know if what we want is even possible :/ seems like whenever two grids become static in relation to each other, the game starts seeing them as one grid, otherwise it won't work, but that's purely an observation...

    When playing Survival i run... i think... 4 mods (Mexpex weapons, 500 m/s, Nanites and Sektan's FemGineer suits) and i already consider that a lot ^^ (in b4 "heh" by the Captain)

    Nah, just shows you got a sense of taste.
     
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  6. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    So I guess we've gone from a weekly to a daily update schedule now? o.o such bleeding edge :D

    I'm not complaining, but it would be really nice to know *what* was fixed...
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  7. Emod Trainee Engineer

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    47
    Hi all. Just wanted to say I appreciate the latest update. Especially the optimizations and the look of glass. Nice!
    Some nags is that terminals feel a little sluggish sometimes, and on a few occasions the close button just won't work.

    Maybe mentioned somewhere, but the rotor height setting of -40 is not in line with surrounding blocks anymore, it's a few cm's taller, making tensions in some situations.
     
  8. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    809
    Appreciate the continuous work on this one, bringing multi-cores to full bloom, and from the patching front I can report connectors are functional again.
     
  9. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227

    that is a fun concept.
    im sure it has been done before but a massive massive ship that just eats asteroids whole and processes the materials.
     
  10. Lé Grand Sárrazin Apprentice Engineer

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    125
    @Commander Rotal Ohh boy, I wouldn't know where to begin.. Super Heavy Armor, once you go Tier 3 armor you don't go back, several dozen weapons mods, guided missiles, which Alysius fixed, they're amazing, many cockpits, Draygo's Aero and Drag/Re-entry mods, Midspace Unlimited Speed Mod, I made it up to ~300,000 m/s, and I traveled a couple l/s from my start point, yes light/seconds, that's actually a unit of distance in game, dozens of sound blocks, lcd screens, interior blocks, furniture, doors, and dozens of armor block mods, even one I modded in-game myself, maybe I'm crazy for spending a month learning Blender and all of the horrors of SE modding, just to mod one armor block to fit my ship just right, cause my ocd was killing me?? :woot: But it sure was fun!!
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793508389
    [​IMG]
    Ain't she purty!? And can you believe I only used this block in four spots on one ship?? That sounds healthy, right!? Right!?? :woot:

    Anywhoozles.. Thanks again, you're too kind! Cheers!!
     
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  11. Particulator Trainee Engineer

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    13
    Maybe Keen SH should call the devs at CPUCores for leads in fixing stuff 'cause when I use their app to run SE, it makes all the instability go away.

    KSH motto #1: We're getting it done. (I almost wet myself reading that one)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  12. Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    CPUCores does nothing a user can't do manually with the Task Manager (Right-click process, "Set Affinity..."). What it amounts to is: Don't let other programs run stuff on your other cores while you're playing.

    Personally, I'd be worried if Keen allowed SE do that, for security reasons. (E.g., prevent anti-virus from running on any core.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  13. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,556
    Another hotfix (◉⌓◉)

    I think this is the...... 5th?.. or was it 6.. I lost count.. And this is on Thursday.. hmm.
     
  14. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    809
    I think you should be glad things are constantly dealed with and updated, if that comment was meant to be a complaint [not sure].
     
  15. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    400
    Although I may not have been here as long as some of the others have, I'm glad to see this game having grown like it has and continuing to grow. It's a game I enjoy that offers me an experience that other games I've played just don't. There are not that many games out there that let you design your own starship from scratch that actually hold my interest. SE is so far the only one I've been able to sink hundreds of hours into. As a small time modder and bug tester for another game, I absolutely understand why some of the limits have been put in place, even if I think it sucks that those limits are present.

    I don't think it's worth a "Havokgate" and I don't think anyone else really does either. My gripe isn't purely with the limit itself, but with how we found out about. Had they simply come out and said, "hey players we're implemented a hard limit to Havok to avoid crashing", straight from the get go then I believe most folks would have understood this and there wouldn't have been nearly as much frustration as there is/was now. For me at least, it's not that the limit exists that pissed me off as much as it was that we weren't told about it until someone such as Rotal hit that limit and someone was like, "oh btw there's a hard limit to your structures." I would dare say most would probably feel the same way if they were told up front. For the average playerbase and average user I fully understand the business decision to put that limit in place and that's a great call on the part of the management department. I still contend however that the option to take it to 100% or close to that 100% hard limit should have been left for more advanced users and folks that wished to push that limit. That is my other big gripe with it. When it comes to games and things like Havok, if there is a limit that people can push towards, then logically there is always going to be that group of players that try to push it as far as they can. It's a very safe assumption in today's gaming world that if they can do something, then it's pretty much a guarantee someone or even a couple of someones will do it. Until I have stress tested my mods that I make for some older games, and even with the items I put on the workshop, if they don't perform to my liking and can't take the beating of their lives, then I typically will not put them out there.

    Let me pose this question to you. Let's suppose for a moment they did give us the option to bypass that 70% limit today just for sake of argument. Let's suppose as well that I click the disable button and get a message warning me of the dangers, but I proceed anyways. Let's also suppose that I crash my game not long after I bypass that 70% limit. Who is at fault in that instance? Is it me for ignoring the warnings and doing it anyways, or the company for not hard coding it in? I still say that solution strikes me as a bit of an attempt to save people from themselves. I absolutely understand why that limit is there, and absolutely believe it was a good call by the management department. However I still believe the option to by pass it should have been included.

    As to your question regarding a hypothetical switch from Havok now. Would I stick around until it was as stable as where we left off? If I see it making the game better then for me yes I believe it would be worth the wait. As long as I enjoy the game I will/would continue to still play. Not everyone may feel that way and I can only speak for myself there, but I would stick around if I thought it would improve the game. I've accepted the solution they've gone with, though you're right I don't like it.

    Overall I'm looking forward to see with this patch today and future patches as to how some of these issues are going to be addressed.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,556
    It is not a complaint... I just come here when there is a hotfix looking for a change log but there is none so I commented.
     
  17. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

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    458
    They don't in any way shape or form log/announce/track/publicize the changes made in hotfixes... so grab bag? Evidently they do not test them either if they need like 6 in a row.
     
  18. Samoangtagey Trainee Engineer

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    7
    My guess is they are pushing (hot-)fixes out as soon as the one or other is done instead of waiting until EVERYTHING is fixed. This makes the gameplay more and more fluid again and actually shows us they are on it and fix them one by one. I actually appreciate that way.
     
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  19. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    Yes, that is fine and good, and I appreciate it too, but I still feel the basic courtesy of actually INFORMING at least the forum-reading users who care about such things WHAT they fixed should be also be done. Really, for the benefit of the rest of the users (who are the majority), it should also be visible from the update history in Steam.
     
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    • Late Late x 1
  20. JD.Horx Senior Engineer

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    1,032
    Can we get back functional turrets and suspensions please?
     
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  21. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,845
    Keen already identified the cycle and how it works. I'll paraphrase:
    1. Big changes/new features
    2. Fix bugs.
    3. Fix more bugs.
    4. Fix even more bugs.
    5. Repeat.

    The big changes are murder on servers due to the instability. But it's all part of the development cycle. Running a server is going to be a rollercoaster ride. I've hosted, even built a liquid cooled box for dedicated hosting. But this IS the cycle. Wear a seat belt and some head protection.

    However, there's a feature to roll back the version of SE installed.

    I would prefer an easier way for multiple game versions to co-exist and be launchable without all of the Tom-Foolery.
     
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  22. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

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    458
    Common courtesy is a lot like common sense... Not nearly as common as the name might imply.

    Besides, in what topsy-turvy Soviet Russia-esque world do we live in where consumers paying for a product have the audacity (or entitlement... pinkos love entitlements) to inquire about exactly what changes are being made to the intellectual property they have purchased.
     
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  23. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    Amen to that, brother...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. canosque Trainee Engineer

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    11
    i would be happy with at least the suspensions and wheels since they are useless rigth now
     
  25. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,197
    I use merge block and various and sundry mergeless blocks and blast door blocks with edges that don't touch. The only part of this that doesn't work is how calamitous the merging process can be some times. As it is every ship I have built can be merged with the rest and they function together as a single unit.

    If you can see my signature picture, it's like seven (I lose count) separate ships merged together. This lashup didn't crash my computer and the frame rate was... acceptable.
     
  26. Helaton Apprentice Engineer

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    208
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    809
    When I have a choice of three updates *or* one update with an elaborated bug fix report, I'd say I prefer the three updates assuming they address more issues in the same time and effort frame.
    Most people have a prime interest in things getting solved, not to read the details about what was exactly addressed and how.
    --- Automerge ---
    Fast response, that is. People here asked for more response from the dev team to their finds and complaints, and if this is done in a timely manner, they still complain - this time about missing change logs. Which need time to get set up, as well.
     
  28. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

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    458
    People here are not complaining arbitrarily because devs are a lil slow to fix things some times, maybe take their time giving responses or because they occasionally don't include patch notes with their hotfixes, but rather release said notes later on for people to review... The people here are complaining about the consistency with which working content is bugged, fixed, rebugged, refixed, re-rebugged etc.... in perpetuity it seems (can't tell you how many times batteries have been b0rked, un-b0rked, re-b0rked, ultra-b0rked, etc And that's just one of dozens of examples). They are complaining because hot fix notes are NEVER released... there's no "time to get set up" when they have no intention of releasing them ever. And frankly I believe it's just sloppy work not showing the people who are your dedicated Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta testers (i,e US because they clearly don't check things before releasing them, certainly not in any comprehensive manner... WE do all that for them, after paying for said product mind you).

    Minimize the frustration and malcontent here all you like... It won't make it any less real.

    That being said... with me as one of KSH's harsher critics, they ARE making some form of progress... I think. But it's really hard to tell with out some form of definitive tell-all log to what's being done or how many times fixes have broken certain things, what things break most often... and why, I certainly hope they are tracking all that in house... but I have to be honest... I would be surprised to learn they were from the way the fixes perform.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. lilbigmouth Trainee Engineer

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    29
    Yeah, I suggested that factions and chat should be accessible from the respawn screen, and Marek agreed. (I think)
     
  30. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    400
    Hydrogen drain is still a thing in creative. Turrets still aren't reacting for me yet either. It also appears as well that now since the most recent hotfix a few minutes before I posted this, the game crashes for me if I control a large ship turret for too long. VERY glad to see bugs getting fixed. Those so far are the main issues I'm having bug wise at the current moment.
     
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