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Update 1.181.5 Minor - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by flexx, Jul 6, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. I23I7 ME Tester

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    3,827
    Hey,

    That issue with turrets i am able to reproduce the missile turrets shooting up their grid so thanks for the report we will have a look at it. As for the Hydrogen not being always at 100% in creative it was intended as well as with the Oxygen tanks. This was intended because the design of tanks was that they are built half full in creative and then you need to provide a generator.

    Block placement has already received a lot of attention for fixing but its hard to get all the cases all in one go. If you have any case that is 100% reproducible, concerning this problem, than go ahead and send it to me.

    Dirty glass in cockpits and fighter cockpits correct? Most noticeable on small grid ones? I have a report already for that and i am bumping it up. Or is the glass glowing for you ? In any case if you would kindly share a screenshot of the issue if it persists.

    That's all for now boys and girls. Tag me on posts that you want to bring to my attention thank you!



    I23I7
     
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  2. krypt-lynx Apprentice Engineer

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    175
    > Dirty glass in cockpits and fighter cockpits correct?
    It looks more like shadowing issues, not a dirt.
     
  3. I23I7 ME Tester

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    3,827
    Yes thank you we are aware of the issue. Looking into fixing it :)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. krypt-lynx Apprentice Engineer

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    175
    By the way:
    I need to admit, your current workflow does not make me want to kill anybody KeenSWH-related. I have no idea why Keen rejected to use it before.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. I23I7 ME Tester

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    3,827
    Update: In the upcoming release the issues with cockpit glass will be resolved. For the placement of the blocks if anyone has some corner case where they are able to make it happen please PM me.
     
  6. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    Thanks for the response @I23I7 and the heads up. For the hydrogen changes, I would urge you guys to reconsider making them drain in creative as in most cases they were connected to oxygen generators regardless. This has gutted alot of the usefulness of hydrogen in creative mode as I see this as survival mode being allowed to creep into creative. Overall I am not a fan of that change as it makes hydrogen the only resource to drain when no others do. I could give further reasons as to why I believe the hydrogen change was a bad idea but that's not why I'm here again. As you requested I've created a couple additional clips. There are 2 clips in question so I'll give a brief rundown on them. I was indeed able to reproduce the issue of block placement and it was something stupid simple I was missing.

    The first clip I have I will link below and I was able to demonstrate some of the block selection issues below. In this one I show some of the issues interacting with the control panels on turrets and doors as primary examples of not being able to interact with things. In this first clip I was not able to reproduce the block placement issue I was talking about and cut the clip after showing the double drone spawns. Below is clip one.




    About 20 minutes later I was still playing around with refitting one of my dreadnoughts. This dreadnought is the same class as the crashed dreadnought I've been testing with and this time I WAS able to reproduce the block placement issue. This dreadnought is a bit further along in the refit process and as such I had turned on the mirror planes. after removing a few blocks that's when the placement issues started. On the clip I was able to demonstrate it for you. After I was able to reproduce this I cut the clip there and assumed it was purely the mirror planes causing it. Off camera I turned off the mirror planes and it continued to spaz out on me. It appears that it takes mirror planes to trigger it and afterwards it can be reproduced easily enough with or without mirror planes, though it is much more difficult without the planes. Below is clip 2.

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Sirhan Blixt Apprentice Engineer

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    So ... what got hotfixed on Friday the 7th?
     
  8. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    535
    I am away from my home PC and can't launch the game right now... but they have been adding hotfix info to the in-game patch notes. Are they there fro 181.501?
     
  9. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,399
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. DrakoZ Trainee Engineer

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    24
    I'm very unhappy with these updates (((They are not real ....
    A bug with blocks, a bug in survival mode, the character dies when approaching the door.
     
  11. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,077
    It has been my experience since the change that as long as you have an oxygen generator connected to a hydrogen tank that is connected to a hydrogen thruster, the thruster will always work even when the tank goes empty. In that way it's no different from reactors that never use all their fuel and batteries that never run dry.

    In the case of hydrogen, this actually allows me to determine if I have enough tanks for a given task as I can now see how fast they drain. Otherwise I might build systems without sufficient capacity should they be used in a survival setting. If your systems are behaving differently you should give Keen a more detailed report.
     
  12. ArdRhi Trainee Engineer

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    5
    I just got into SE a few days ago, and am enjoying myself a lot.

    I HAVE noticed a problem with lag. I see a very regular oscillation spike in CPU usage -- it'll be nice and low for a few seconds, then spike up to 75-80% CPU. Then it'll drop to normal again, and a few seconds later, BAM, back up to 75-80 percent. Once in a while, it'll spike up to 100% CPU on ALL cores. I have 12 cores, and it will spike them ALL. This solid saturation of all CPUs will go for anywhere from 5 seconds to solid hang and crash of the software in a non-responsive state. I have to clobber it and restart it, losing everything since the last incremental autosave.

    I checked on the discussions board on Steam and it's a long-standing recurrent problem. I don't know if it's been reported through support emails, but I hope that problem is in the works. I'll supply full details of my machine, with any stats and logs you need upon request, though it's probably wise to tell me who to email with them so I don't clutter up the board.

    ArdRhi
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. drmike316 Trainee Engineer

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    1
    My LCDs turned pink. However, when I load a new game everything is fine. Mods on mods off doesn't matter.
     
  14. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    put it on the board anyways within a spoiler tag.. OR post it in the bug section like it is supposed to be. :p
     
  15. DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

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    I retract my previous statement regarding glass..

    I started playing, took screens of dirty glass, turned around and the other side of my ship's glass was clean! ok, fine... one side dirty, that's fine.. next thing I notice was the dirty side became clean! turned around and the clean side had become dirty. by now I'm really trippin!

    anyway, it changed several times but one oddity I noticed was at one point only half the glass showed dirty(top vs bottom). if this is a bug I have not tested and recreated it so I'm just going to leave it at that.

    keep on keenin on!
     
  16. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    Sounds like it is related to reflections?

    Sadly killer doors have been a known bug for a few versions so far.
     
  17. Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    Can you refill the tank, or does it need to be replaced between each test?
     
  18. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    As Bumber pointed out that's the question I have as well. My gripe with the hydrogen drain is that in my case it actually shut off my thrusters and that's why my dreadnought crashed to the ground. All the hydrogen drained and down went the ship. With gatling guns and rockets they can all be fired in creative even when you've not loaded them with ammo and you can run reactors without actually physically putting uranium in them. With hydrogen I couldn't do that and that's part of what pissed me off about the drain. If it's just simply it draining the tanks but the thrusters will still work as long as an oxygen generator is connected I could live with that. At least then I could test the system without having to worry about it shutting off on me. Then I could adjust for efficiency as I needed and when the tanks stayed mostly stable on fuel levels then I would be good.

    As it sits right now when my tanks drained the thrusters shut off. So that pretty much guts the usefulness of hydrogen for me to a great degree. If it's intended for the thrusters to have shut off once the tanks hit zero then that's a change I STRONGLY disagree with as something like that should have come with a warning at the very least.
     
  19. DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

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    22
    I was thinking that.. it would be like my skybox was burned into the glass. the speckles do resemble the skybox
    I'll up a few pix when I get on my computer
     
  20. derletztewiderstand Trainee Engineer

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    9
    Thanks KSH, with your updates to the patches you can not play your game, because not every time you patcht an admin is there, you can not play your game any more. A whole weekend not.

    Test your patches on a real server with real players and not local.
    You condemn the game to the dead before it comes to a publication.

    One patch instead of 7 updates.
     
    • Late Late x 1
  21. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    they do test their stuff but there's only so much they're going to catch as not all issues present themselves until the patch goes live. In just the past month I've seen several of the bugs that myself and others have reported get fixed within the game. As for an admin being online, they have some of their testing crew and other devs monitoring the update threads like this as well as the bug forum. If you slow down long enough to tells us what kind of an issue you're experiencing they might be able to help. Without knowing exactly what's going on it could even be something that us general players can help with as well. Take a deep breath, and tell us what's going screwy.

    I don't like the large amount of hotfixes either, but I would rather them patch the issue when they have a fix then do nothing at all. At least Keen will actually listen when you tell them there is an issue unlike other games. Fixing issues with a game like this or even small time mods like what I do can take time depending on the severity of the break. A single one or zero out of place in the code and the entire thing can come crashing down. It's not as simple as flipping switches most of the time, even as much as we all wish it was.

    Finally this is a game that's still in the Beta stages of testing and hasn't even released yet. In fact it wasn't even too long ago they hit Beta stage from having been in Alpha for a few years. it's pretty much guaranteed in Alpha and Beta stages that you're going to have bugs. In fact I would argue that if you haven't experienced at least one bug with this game, even just one of the smaller annoying ones vs giant amounts of clang, then you haven't been playing long enough. If you don't tell them the issue you're experiencing and what exactly is making it unplayable then they can't fix it. You don't have to do video clips like I do, or the detailed reports some of the others do, but simply giving a very basic description of the issue helps not only them to fix it, but it helps the game as a whole when it does get fixed.
     
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  22. Automatix Trainee Engineer

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    3
    I wanted to continue building my base on a planet surface today. My big carrier ship floating right next to the building site (hydro power only). After only couple of minutes the placement bug appeared for me aswell. At some sides of a block i could place stuff on other sides not. I noticed that it lets you "mostly" place blocks on armor blocks but on any other block it's sometimes nearly impossible. Well after 15 min of building, shit hit the fan.... i only heard big explosions, and my sim speed said cya... well my carrier ran out of fuel (in creative mode with hydro tanks and generators equipped and piped up). Then the ship some how decided to bounce like crazy without breaking further apart (destructible blocks were activated), and finally began to slowly fall through the ground.
    So all in all at least i know now my carrier needs more fuel, but otherwise its really hard to build anything atm...
     
  23. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    I'm just curious did you have mirror planes turned on while you were building? that's what seems to trigger it for me and after that it will do it with them turned on or off.

    Also glad to know I'm not the only one who's had issues with the hydrogen stuff. Absolutely DESPISE the fact that it turns the thrusters off when it hits zero in creative. literally no other resource does that in creative yet hydrogen apparently does. Reactors don't shut off for having no uranium, ion thrusters will still work off reactors that have no uranium in them as will atmospherics. Oxygen generators will still work with no ice, turrets will fire with no ammo. But apparently hydrogen thrusters shut off. Royally pisses me off that it seems to be that's intended as that's just asinine imo.
     
  24. Automatix Trainee Engineer

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    3
    I can't remember having enabled mirroring, it happened when i started to build a new hangar in a cliff, which was a completly new grid where mirroring wasen't even set. But I'll try to confirm it. But it could get wensday until i can tell more (a lot of work today)
     
  25. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,077
    First of all, sorry I missed these posts when they were made :p

    So, here's the deal with hydrogen thrusters to date as I have experienced them. As you know, H2 thrusters must be connected to a H2 source. In the past this has been a tank that, in creative, always remained 50% filled. I found out the hard way two updates ago that this is no longer the case. When my ship crashed into the ground after repeated successful landings and takeoffs the previous day (to the point that I was going to make a video of it to show it off) because I ran out of hydrogen? In Creative? WTF!

    So the first thing I did was to put O2 generators into the system. The ship has four small and four large H2 thrusters so just to keep things even I installed four O2 generators. What happend next was... interesting.

    As the craft entered the gravity field and the thrusters kicked in the tanks depleted rapidly. They were empty well before I was anywhere near the surface. However the thrusters continued to work as if they had all the H2 they needed.

    I should point out that the craft was being flown by the auto-pilot, which may explain a few things.

    Anyway, the craft continued to descend at 99 m/s. The thrusters did not look as if they were doing anything, although they had the yellow glow that says they're working. Just when I was about to hit the F5 button so that I wouldn't have to see my ship crash again, it slowed down and touched the ground so gently it probably wouldn't have broken an egg.

    Then all the tanks filled to 100%. Not 50%. 100%. As you can assume, the takeoff and return to space was entirely uneventful. At no time did I put any ice in the generators or any cargo container. It all just happened pretty much like one should expect things to work in Creative. From that point forward to today that ship and other like it that I have work the way they used to, provided there is a O2 generator in the loop.

    Again I should point out that all these takeoffs and landings are handled by the auto-pilot, which handles things a bit differently. I haven't tried it but I suspect things could happen... differently... if I attempted to do things manually.

    This is where I have to step into the realm of speculation. The ship in my example is what I consider a small ship at around 2 million kg. It could very well be that if you have a heavier ship with lots of H2 thrusters you may need more O2 generators, especially if you are hovering. My present theory calls for one O2 generator for each large H2 thruster. That might sound like a lot but H2 thrusters were not intended to be main propulsion, and that's why they're more complicated to use than atmospheric or ion thrusters.

    That, and for Clang's sake why are you operating a dreadnought in a gravity well?









    If you are like me and use the word thruster here and wonder why spell check always highlights it, that's because there is no such word in the English language. Engineers and manufactures tend to call them motors (sometimes engines).
     
  26. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    From your description it would appear we're experiencing 2 different things. I've told the story of the dreadnought crash a few times now but I'll explain some of the more technical aspects. About a month ago I was doing a refit to the ship from the ground up. This meant better turret placement if possible, additional power if needed, some programmable blocks for scripts and such. In other words your standard upgrade pass that we've all done from time to time I'm sure, which included the thrust systems and fuel. At the time the crash happened the dreadnought had 6 hydrogen tanks onboard. she also had close to 40 oxygen generators onboard as I had just gotten to the fuel systems at that point. now because I was redoing and rerouting some connections only 1/4 of them were hooked up. In other words 2 tanks and 10 oxygen generators. Prior to the hydrogen changes this was enough to keep her airborne so I didn't think too much of it. In retrospect, yeah I should have thought that out better. Fast forward to the hydrogen change, when it took effect i had only 1/4 of my fuel systems hooked up, and of the fuel systems I did have, thanks to how they worked in creative, I was essentially at 1/8 fuel capacity. A couple moments after loading into the world I noticed the ship was moving and ran to the cockpit just in time to see the fuel gauge tick down from about 10%. There wasn't enough time to get some forward thrust or anything. If I could have gotten some forward thrust I could have at least belly landed the thing at the cost of my landing gears, the pads they sat on, and some of the lower armor. Would have been better than replacing the whole ship. Clang unfortunately had other plans. Even with Oxygen gens hooked up, the ship crashed straight down. 22m kilos hitting the ground from 2.5 kilometers up, yeah not a pretty sight or feeling, especially when you hadn't saved the blueprint in awhile. Again another thing I should have thought out better.

    Thankfully the better majority of the ship survived and I was able to lock her down with some landing gears that made it. on the ground I restored the connections I had temporarily removed to shift some stuff around. when I got back in the cockpit the ship had already made it back to 70% capacity. one of the tanks was destroyed in the crash so 70% capacity with the 5 surviving tanks. So I know the fuel systems worked and there was hydrogen being produced, but obviously not enough. Where as your thrusters kept working as though they had hydrogen, his majesty Clang decided to flip me the bird and my thrusters shut off.

    Now on this dread there are several hundred thrusters so the thing is a hydrogen hog anyways. However ice is not an issue on my worlds I normally play on so throwing a million kilos here or there doesn't really effect my ice reserves much. Since the crash and after saving the ship from my back up save I've completed the refit. now as long as the thing has ice in the oxygen generators she doesn't burn fuel from the tanks even when doing a full burn of the thrusters to get back into space.

    As to why I was operating the ship in a gravity well, she's a carrier dreadnought designed to carry 6 of my fighters around. I sometimes use my dreadnoughts as mobile command posts of sorts and I like them to be able to land on planets and take off again without issue. The intention was to see if she could still break orbit with the refit and such. Though if you think that thing being able to operate in a gravity well is insane, picture a 173m kilo starbase descending to 5km above the surface and taking off again. I may or may not have done that with a starbase I created :woot:.
     
  27. atcrulesyou Trainee Engineer

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    Pics or it didn't happen!
     
  28. Silentfighter89 Trainee Engineer

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    @captainbladej52 so you play in survival not creativ?....for your first crash you described...where the ship suddenly was moving during you refitting...I don't think you run out of hydrogen but you had not enough engines online to keep her up. (Even if 1/4 of your thrusters should have been enough...did you consider cargo wheight got higher sins you last used it with only 1/4,of the thrusters online?

    For creative...I like the way hydrogen is set up at the moment. This way you can get a rough estimation if your ship even can escape gravity with the hydrogen tanks you have provided. I design most of my survival ships in creativ and then load the blueprint in survival knowing it works. And for those creative only. As long as you provide one oxygen generator your thrusters will work. You even can go without a hydrotank.
     
  29. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    379
    The crash original dreadnought crash occurred in creative mode where I have done all of my bug testing videos save for the 2 most recent concerning block placement. In a couple of the test clips you can see me weld something instantly from a projector which you can't do in survival. The actual construction was taking place about 2.5m km in the air to avoid pirate drones, yet allowing me to stay in the strongest portions of the gravity well. In addition to this I tend to build the larger ships higher up in the air like that on the off chance I do accidently knock out some of my own engines. If that happens I have enough time to undo what I did before she goes splat. Now with that said before I saved for the final time before the major update, I made sure all engines were still operating and made sure there were sufficient connections still operating to get to the final 2 tanks and the remaining oxygen generators before I saved for that night and logged. I didn't get to play SE until about 4 days later which is when the update hit on 6/2/2017 and made the changes to hydrogen. I load into the world and all is fine for the moment I first load in. After a brief time I notice the ship start to move if ever so slightly and this time I see one of those particle debris effects fly up as the 2nd indication it was moving. At this point I ran to the cockpit as quickly as I could and get into the seat with just enough time to see the fuel tick to zero from 10%. Keep in mind as I've told others this dreadnought uses several hundred thrusters because ice is in abundance in my worlds, test and otherwise, so building a ship that would eat a metric butt-ton of ice doesn't bother me. When I saved there were approximately 370 thrusters on the ship and operating. There was never a point during the refit that any of the thrusters went offline until they ran out of fuel. when I loaded in there were no issues until the ship started to run out of fuel. The only changes to the ship between that save and when I loaded in were the changes to hydrogen from the major update.

    As to the cargo bays, those were emptied out before I even began the refit so there was no cargo on the ship add to the weight to start with. Nor were any engines disabled between my save and the major update. For that to have happened someone would have had to log on to my physical computer, load the save, change something, and log off without me knowing, and unless Jason Borne or someone similar decided they want to sabotage the ship that's NOT going to happen.

    As to hydrogen itself, simply having tanks and having thrusters is not enough to escape gravity as how you configure them matters as well. you can have all the thrust in the world but unless you focus that thrust in the right direction it doesn't help you. As to running things off one oxygen generator, I could do that before the update, but not now after it the update. I always combat test my ships before I ever upload them and put them through their paces. The refit has since been completed after crashing the original ship and she now won't use fuel from the tanks as long as she has ice fuel in the oxygen generators, even under a full burn going straight up or forward :woot:. I may use methods that make guys like Stardriver slam his head into his desk, but there are methods to my madness.
     
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  30. DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

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    22
    while I'm playing, I have winamp on in the background and noticed recently that the audio would blip (loudly) and then I'd lose 90% of my volume. the sound resembles pulling out the audio output write from the back of the pc. I've checked my connections as a result but only notice the blip while in game. is this a known or common issue? normally, I wouldn't care about the sound but it scares the jebus out of me. and my volumes are low...

    any suggestions on how to isolate or better identify what's causing it? im updating drivers right now

    Edit: nevermind, it just did it twice out of game. =p
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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