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Update 1.182.0 - Major Optimizations, Reduced Loading Times & More!

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by flexx, Jul 20, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. rottielover Apprentice Engineer

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    485
    What we are currently working on
    • Compound blocks

    YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. I23I7 ME Tester

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    3,827
    We are not making them just fixing a small issue where you can put certain blocks together.
    --- Automerge ---
    Hey do you have the crash log? It would be helpful sicne it should let us see the crash.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Hyomoto Apprentice Engineer

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    244
    And so everyone made the exact opposite noise. Probably best to nip that in the bud, but I swear I can hear the collective disappointment from space. With my helmet on. And realistic sound enabled.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
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  4. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    131
    Just a quick thanks to the DEVs/MODs that are updating this thread with the hotfix info as it happens, this is exactly what we need.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. enceladus Trainee Engineer

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    1
    great update guys!
     
  6. Snail Farmer Trainee Engineer

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    suicide doors not fixed....
     
  7. Noganite Trainee Engineer

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    20
    @ Testers of KEEN!!!! PLEASE READ!!! Hey, you guys have done many cool and some silly things for SE over the years, but I would like to recommend something VERY important about testing things like patches that seems to be VERY lacking. You guys do not seem to be testing in REAL WORLD scenarios where LAG and DYSYNC can happen. Try playing on a server with 200 ms ping. I also experience all the bugs everyone else does, but if you do not test in REAL WORLD nothing...as a QA tester in my past...NOTHING will be ACCURATE! Please consider this! It is highly important!
     
  8. TheJaegerBomb Trainee Engineer

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    66
    I keep getting low simulation speed every time I enter the terminal (the ingame k menu). All other times I get 60fps and no low sim speed. Why does the terminal cause that much lag? its a menu..
    I'd expect the game to be weighed down by the rendering the complex movements of spacecraft, rather than the extremely difficult calculation of "-10 steel plates in assembler, +10 steel plates in container".
     
  9. DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

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    22
    I mostly noticed it after last week's major. mostly on a small grid - so bad I simply cannot target a block. also noticed on large grids but only while placing them and not as bad. (it was worse before the hot fixes)

    I find it odd that you say it's not happening and I've never had this problem before now.

    how can we dig into this a bit deeper?

    Edit: oh, and I've tried switching between 1st and 3rd views and using alt to move the cam, didn't find that it made any difference
     
  10. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,342
    How it works is not the issue. The issue was being able to turn it off if it doesn't suit you. To be honest, I would prefer this sort of thing be left to Modders. I fear that anything done by Keen will be DOA just because it's from Keen, no matter how good it actually is. Everything will either happen too fast or not fast enough or something Keen will have to spend months tweaking trying to make everyone happy.

    If you're going to go through with it, I would suggest researching the original "Elite Dangerous" mod. It contained blocks that grew plants when supplied with power. There was also a block that produced meat and a block that produced fish. There were fruit blocks, vegetable blocks, a block that produced cotton and a block that produced coffee. The meat block and the fish tank block needed nutrients from the plant blocks and the waste provided fertilizers for the plant blocks. The blocks that carried over into the Advanced Life Support mod are the water generator (needs ice) and the food processors and dispensers. I imagine the meat block grew some sort of genetically engineered pig or cow or chicken or some sort of ungodly hybrid. I noticed the block didn't have any windows.

    Probably best not to think about it.

    I've been having that issue since 1.181
     
  11. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    445
    I just wish the sim speed didn't tank hard when trying to use my starbase or another large structure. that's the biggest thing performance wise that's a hindrance at the moment for me anyways.

    I personally hope they don't put in a food system in all honesty. That may not be a popular opinion but I don't see it adding anything of real value to the game. All food systems for games like this I've ever seen always end up being a penalty with no upsides to them at all, especially if efficiency of the engineer is tied to the food system. Usually all the food systems I see go something similar to this. At full food bar the engineer operates at full capacity with no hindrances to his/her ability to work. They are able to weld at full efficiency, grind at full efficiency, and also run at full speed. In addition they are able to aim their weapons without impairment. At virtually no food status, they're operating at half capacity if that much, they weld much slower, grind much slower, run at snail pace, and their weapons wobble so much when they try to aim it's pointless to fight.

    In other words with all the systems like that I've ever seen, they offer plenty of penalty with no benefits to having a full food bar other than not dying. One of the things that I like about SE is I can focus on building ships and stations and so on without having to worry about all that other junk alot of other games make you worry about. I've used this example before, but let's suppose I go on a pirate raid and try to knock out one of their bases. After I complete the mission I die anyways because oops I forgot to eat something before I left the base. I don't mind oxygen, hydrogen, and power generation, because on a ship you will need a life support system with air to breath, you will need fuel, and you will need power. If I wanted to be a gardener or herd animals around etc I would go play Minecraft. The food system would definitely need to have a toggle option and in my case would be permanently left off.

    The big thing I want to know is what value people think a food system would add to the game as I simply do not see it.
     
  12. Zhiila Tester Staff

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    487

    Can you record it and share the video so we can see what exactly is happening? I just tried it on STEAM and it seems to work properly.
    This is how it works for me:
     
  13. DranKof Trainee Engineer

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    19
    Combustion engines will probably help fix the problem.
     
  14. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

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    337
    Reason to build yet another type of structures/machines. Harvesters, automated farms etc. It's obvious your astronaut needs would be easily met so why go large with farming? Hmm maybe KSH could add trading posts or ships where player could exchange food for materials, components. This shouldn't be so difficult to implement, AI isn't the best, but should be able to fulfill this easy task. This could really bring new, bright and shinny aspect to the game, insted of yet another mining company there could rise farming companies. So I'm all for farming system, along with hunger system. Maybe this would lead to another explosion of simple blocks like bed, shower, table, and suddenly all our creations will become outdated and will require adjusting to new reality... All our inventions will look a little bit more alive, liveable :-D. Here is your value ;-).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Sevnn Trainee Engineer

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    19
    None of this improves on the core game structure or functionality in a manner that can't be met with mods. If the mod structure of SE doesn't support some aspect of a farming/food implementation than that should be added, but native support for everything that every player wants is contrary to the idea of creating a solid gaming structure that is expandable by the community.
     
  16. DranKof Trainee Engineer

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    19
    Well, presently it's not easy to add 'hunger' tickers, 'hygiene' tickers etc. If anyone did want to mod those in, it would require playing along with all other custom HUD elements and then the different water/piping systems or whatever would need to play along with each other.

    It would be more of a shared resource for modders if the engine at least natively supported these things even if they weren't directly used by the game. It would likewise be very interesting if we could build crew quarters with beds, desks, different chairs, just for immersive purposes. I don't think making hygiene or hunger part of survival would be very interesting or match the general feel of the game.

    But I would much, much rather Keen just keep developing in the direction they've been going all along. If they're wanted to add some side features permanently, they could directly implement some more popular mods. In the meanwhile, they seem to be doing a good job of secretly working on unique features all the time while improving the already existing ones.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

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    22
    I played a bit last night and it's not doing the same.. 019 hot fix might have changed something? I'll try again tonight and grab a vid if it does it
     
  18. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    445
    The only part of that which doesn't sound like a complete penalty with no benefits is the possibility of trading posts and such. Aside from the trading posts, the hunger system and otherwise like all others sound sound like they're 100% downside with no upsides at all. Overall this just seems to be yet another instance of adding another resource to manage just for the sake of adding it. Personally I don't find that fun at all but irritating. Stuff like that imo just distracts from actually being able to focus on ship building and so on. I don't mind hydrogen, oxygen, and power because those are all things a ship would need, fuel, life support, and power. IMO putting in a hunger system like that just makes SE more like Minecraft and every other survival game out there and takes away some of the uniqueness of the game. If there was more to do with what we have now it would be alot better, such as random pirate installations that pop up around your bases and such. If they want to add new blocks then cool, but the hunger system is still something that would remain permanently disabled in all of my games.
     
  19. capnbeef Trainee Engineer

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    20
    dinosaurs, dinosaur eggs, crossing fingers.
     
  20. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,342
    Well, perhaps some of you were not around when air got added. Talk about uproar! People were used to building things without doors cause they didn't have to worry about air. When it got put in a great many people wondered what the point was, and they were even more upset because they were going to have to rebuild their ships to accommodate oxygen generators and air vents (things you would never see on a real spacecraft). Many people vowed to stop playing altogether (ripping out their hard drives, closing their internet accounts, moving to an Amish community in Ohio...) Today it's just part of the game, unless you don't want it to be, and then you just turn it off.

    I don't understand how people can play in "survival" mode without worrying where your next meal is coming from. Every basic survival manual from the Boy Scouts to the Navy Seals lists three things you need to nail down if you find yourself isolated and rescue is uncertain: food, clothing and shelter. In Space Engineers if you have a working space suit you can check off clothing and shelter. Congratulations! If you exist at all in Space Engineers you have survived! In 2077 you don't need to eat. Air provides all the nutrition a body needs.

    People playing "survival" will stop what they're doing every fifteen minutes to find a medical bay or even a passenger seat just to get health restored or oxygen bottles filled, but go absolutely ballistic at the thought that going without any nutritional supplements of any kind for two or three days might cause you to die. Just because other games have failed to provide a satisfactory system doesn't mean Keen shouldn't even try. As I said previously, they don't have to fret over the details, just something that good enough, and then let Modders run with it.

    I build all my ships to be "livable" so wherever possible they contain mess halls and/or food dispensers. They also have beds even though we don't sleep, showers even though there's no running water, and toilets even though since nothing goes in, nothing ever comes out. Just as a lot of us went through the trouble of building airlocks when there was no need, we wanted our builds to look authentic so we put the stuff in anyway, and when the mechanic actually got implemented we were ready.

    Roast Sabroid with a side of ripe oxygen plant. Now that's surviving! (Cyberhound sausage for breakfast!)
     
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  21. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

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    337
    Food system can be compared to pirates, wolfs and spiders, oxygen even gravity in game. They added enemies, need for oxygen and gravity and a freaky health bar to make survival, well...survival. Enemies give us reason to build something that can protect us nor damage them. Oxygen need makes your astronaut human, you need to remember to put some oxygen generator or farm in your base/ship in order to survive. Gravity is a bi***, you need to consider it while playing hardcore survival, really good reason to build cherry-picker, make stairs, elevators. Food and hunger would be another thing that might kill us, survival would be more complete, more machines or devices would have to be build to survive, hell to become freaking star-lord. If it makes you feel game is going to be yet another Minecraft so be it. BTW why won't you compare it to ME?

    Surely it would add lot of reasons to do thing different, diversity of overall survival gameplay would increase exponentially if you can't see it there's probably gonna be setting for people like you... Frankly if you treat game only as tech-demo you should stick to creative mode, why bother anything? But what would be the purpose of your builds? What is going to define their shape and content? Answer for that questions is enclosed in wide survival definition ;-). So yea, food is required, not as mod, but as fully vanilla feature. Of course no haste with that :-D.

    Hell I would like to see need for sleep in SE haha, maybe something like exhausted astronaut after 18hours of straight play. That would ensure well rested status IRL, haha.
     
  22. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    445
    Having oxygen actually makes sense though with hydrogen being a part of the game. Through electrolysis we split the ice molecules into their component elements of oxygen and hydrogen, one to breath and the other for fuel. With the introduction of oxygen we have the ability to pressurize the ship, which in turn means we don't have to constantly rely on our suit's oxygen supply. One could argue as well that small bits of oxygen can be used to allow the hydrogen to burn as well. Point being it made sense the way it was added and at the same time gave an element of survival to it. If you're on the Earth planet or another planet with oxygen then it may not be a particularly exciting element but it still exists nonetheless. As for having a health bar, if you didn't have that health bar, be it visible or invisible, you wouldn't be able to die essentially and it wouldn't be true survival now would it?

    Far as toilets, beds and so on, if that's something you like then more power to you as we all have our preferences. Far as a bed one can argue that the crew sleeps in the cryo chambers at night and only go into "hibernation mode" when going on a long trip or similar. Otherwise this is a block I would not be opposed to as it could be used on stations or large ships as a decoration if nothing else.

    Far as the other blocks such as showers or the food system, you've just made SE into another generic survival game, save this one is in space.

    Pirates, wolves, and spiders serve more of a purpose in game than simply a motivation to build something to protect ourselves. Disabled pirate structures, and ye olden cyberhounds give you an alternative way to acquire components and resources, just raid the pirates. As I said to Stardriver above it made sense to bring oxygen into the picture since we had or were going to have hydrogen. When we use electrolysis to break down ice molecules into its component elements we get oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen gives us fuel and the oxygen to breath. Without oxygen in game we would essentially be pissing away half of our ice every time we processed it with no gains. Oxygen added an extra element of survival to the game, even if it is trivial on the Earth planet or another oxygen rich environment. Point being even on the Earth planet or otherwise, the need to breath is still there. As for gravity, it again makes sense to have it in game as in space you will need a source of artificial gravity in space. Without gravity all of the items loaded into the cargo bays would just rattle around unless you assumed they were in slots of some type as one example. Tools would also float off unless we stuck it in our backpack or otherwise as one example. In other words it boils down to flying debris in that instance. It would've been easy enough to just say that the engineer was using mag boots, but that wouldn't have explained everything else.

    Adding diversity simply for the sake of diversity isn't always a good thing, especially if there is no compelling reason behind it. Personally I see this game as more of a tech based survival game with the main emphasis being using the technology to survive and so on. From your description of the hunger system it seems to be just another version of "eat this or die" and that's it. There's no further benefits to having a full food bar other than not dying and personally I don't find that to be fun but rather tedious. As for my own builds I treat them as military/merc ships that are designed for combat and exploration. The intention behind them is that they explore what is out there in space, but also are prepared to protect their territory if need be and deal with interstellar threats. Now obviously the exploration and enemy spawns are extremely limited at the moment as there are no random enemy spawns aside from those random ones in space and not alot to explore. Hopefully that changes but still I design them with the dual purposes of exploration and combat, which is what I see humanity doing in 2077.

    When adding something to any game, be it small time mods like what I do for older games, or a title like SE, there needs to be a compelling reason for it to be added. You can add decorative items or even trash mobs to a game, but when overdone it gets annoying. Far as "If it makes you feel game is going to be another Minecraft so be it," that boils down to an argument based on personal immersion and that's an EXTREMELY subjective thing and not a compelling enough reason on its own.

    Far as the hunger system, aside from simply not dying what other purposes would the food system serve? Would there be a buff of some type based on the type of food you ate, such as a 5% increased welding speed for a time if you ate Food A or 5% increase to run and flight speed if you ate Food B? Without a compelling reason such as the 5% buffs I gave as one hyopthetical, the hunger system simply amounts to "eat this or die" and that's not something I find fun. At that point it's just another tedious thing to manage that unless it's kept full at all times amounts to a penalty with no benefits at all. As a very rough comparison, several years ago there were 2 stats in World of Warcraft known as Hit and Expertise. Unless you had capped those 2 stats out you had the possibility to miss your attacks if you didn't have enough hit, or do little to no damage if you didn't have enough Expertise. Aside from not missing your attacks and ensuring you had no damage penalty, they gave you no benefits and as such were eventually removed. I see a food system like what you're proposing as being very similar to those 2 stats, all penalty and no benefit. Without some type of further compelling reason such as a potential temporary buff and/or trading posts, I simply see no value in adding a hunger system to the game. If that's the case that it would simply be "eat this or die" then that's resources and time I would rather see used elsewhere to fix issues or expand the enemy factions as some other possibilities.

    So I will ask the question at this point. If a food/hunger system were to be implemented tomorrow, would you have it give some type of temporary buff and/or include trading posts with it to trade for resources, or would it be a simple case of "eat this or die?"

    If it's simple a case of "eat this or die" then imo that's a complete waste of time. If it provides something beyond that then depending on what it offers I would throw my support behind it as well. That's what I'm trying to get out of folks and so far all I'm seeing is another carbon copy of "eat this or die."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Slywolf117 Trainee Engineer

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    38
    Small grid cockpits/O2 generators randomly explode when grinding down anything touching them, or grinding them down in general.
     
  24. Snail Farmer Trainee Engineer

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    7
    Maybe it's just me but I'm thinking you guys should move the food/hunger issue to its own thread as it has nothing to do with the current patch and seems to be cluttering up this thread. There is a suggestion area for SE here: https://forum.keenswh.com/forums/suggestions-and-feedback.313735/

    I do agree that a food system would be good, however.
     
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  25. JuStX2 Apprentice Engineer

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    312
    @Whoever Suggested Updating my Graphics Drivers - TY that worked; I had forgotten to do so because I had recently formatted my Windows Hard Drive and forgot to reinstall the latest drivers - ever since i did that the latest major patch works perfectly.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,342
    I was going to do that but I didn't want to look up the thread.
     
  27. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    you've done something to the wheels they're more controllable.
    i can't contain my delight.

    10 minutes before work i was racing and crashing basic 4x4 rovers battery powered with 3 gyroscopes across awful mountainous terrain with bandit radio hardbass playing constantly.
    and with the much faster loading i had even more time to spend doing that.

    im ecstatic with delight.
    can't wait to settle down in a desert environment with all that delightful flat smooth cheeki breeki land to race across.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Slywolf117 Trainee Engineer

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    38
    Instead of adding new crap that makes the game nearly unplayable, how about fixing all the bugs and optimizing multiplayer. That way, the new stuff CAN be used and the game WILL be playable.

    Really tired of things randomly exploding for no reason, tired of the invisible planets/asteroids(but you FIXED that MONTHS ago), and a bunch of other stuff that keeps happening. This should still be called an alpha game, a beta game is FAR more stable than this currently is.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  29. Hyomoto Apprentice Engineer

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    244
    First off, no. None of those are survival items. Tend wounds. Procure water. Light a fire. You can build yourself a hut, go hunting or whatever afterwards. I personally don't understand your obsession with this particular facet, but I can see you really want it. So let me say, rather than being vehemently against it, because I'm not even as a survival player with no interest in it, what I want to see in the game is gameplay that isn't just another bar to manage. It doesn't matter how elaborate (or some would argue stupid) you make farming, at the end of the day it's to manage another freaking bar. To be honest, I'd rather see some more block varieties. 2x1 batteries, 2x2 reactors, more cockpits, a new armor type, slanted doors. COMPOUND BLOCKS. Things to play with. Sure, modders could make that but let's be frank: the modding scene is pretty weak here, and it's not the community's job to provide content for the game. If Keen wants the players to make mods to fill in the gaps then they need to improve the modding tools. Otherwise, when it comes time to pick I am going to point at new features over reskinned ones.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. Bumber Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,018
    Survival mode isn't wilderness survival, it's just survival.

    Survival, as in don't die.

    Food isn't a particularly large concern in space in the future.
    Dehydrated food packs have been a thing for astronauts since the beginning. Months of survival in a crate. Future probably grows algae.
    That just leaves water. Astronauts have the tech to recycle their bodily fluids. And, of course, we mine ice already.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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