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Update 1.185.7 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jan 4, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    423
    I used it for this ship, modeled on this much older design; it's a ship with welders and grinders mounted on rotating arms, so you can switch between them. The physics overhaul had eliminated some weird handling characteristics that made it non-viable, and it worked quite well until some later update stopped the advanced rotor from working with the conveyor network. Most of my designs are pretty simple and straightforward; I rarely use pistons or rotors.
     
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  2. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    128
    The problem with flying is that you need a constant power source, and a lot of it for heavier vehicles.

    My current game has no uranium on the starting planet so power was more of a concern at the start and wheels would have been very useful if they worked properly during the early game.
     
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  3. Saberwulfy Apprentice Engineer

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    292
    Is it my impression or is it having fewer videos?
    Where is our Xocliw of love?
     
  4. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    423
    There was a livestream by Xocliw today, complete with new planet mods taking advantage of new game engine features, a ringworld, sprites, and Django.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  5. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,391
    Your explanation was probably why the hydrogen generator never materialized. Once the teaser was shown, a number of people pointed out what you just did (including the fact that the oxygen generator is improperly named). I'm guessing you didn't see the teaser, so you wouldn't know that they fashioned it to resemble a big car engine, complete with header pipes. You could use it to make a cool-looking SE style truck, but other than that it was redundant, if not outright useless.

    Thing about wheels is and has always been suspension tuning. I never went through the calculation in order to find out how many possible setting variations there are, but given the way SE is played it makes sense. People want to just stick some wheels on and go. You can apparently do that in other games. It's true for ion and hydrogen engines, so why not wheels? Well, the game uses physics to make things move, as opposed to a script in other games. Also, there aren't a lot of games where you build a vehicle from scratch as opposed to picking a body style, engine, etc. With no idea what your vehicle will do, Keen could have no idea how to set the wheels up, and a single wheel setup would only work on a vehicle with a single weight, size, wheel configuration and would suck on anything else, and that's on one planet. Take your vehicle to a different planet with different gravity and it wouldn't work.

    Instead, you can set up wheels, you can change the settings on the fly via the hot bar, and you can control wheel settings with scripts. In other words you have at your disposal all the tools you need to have wheels perform flawlessly under most conditions, as long as you are willing to adjust the settings. It's a steep learning curve but it's much more rewarding once you have mastered it. In a "survival" situation where resources matter, a wheeled vehicle is much less resource intensive to make and to use.

    A lot of people are thinking these "new wheels" Keen teased are some sort of plug and play wheel suspension. My understanding was that the "new" wheels would act differently on different surfaces like mud, sand and ice. There was some indication that steering input would be calculated a different way that would reduce skidding, but there was no hint that wheels would ignore physics and just always work. That might explain why we haven't seen the new wheels. Right now in my opinion the only problem with wheels is that sometimes they don't respond to the settings you set until the wheels actually touch something, at which point they react violently and unpredictably.

    When it comes to planets, thrusters (engines) are for the impatient.
     
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  6. Satarel Trainee Engineer

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    1
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  7. posthy Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    I have a few wheeled vehicles I like to drive around sometimes, but since the hover engine mod appeared on the workshop, I use only that for new builds (even retrofitted some of my older ones)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

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    239
    I still use wheels; nothing against the hover engine mod (I actually love it), but there's just something about having a wheeled vehicle that gets lost when you switch over to a repulsor lift array. Personal feelings, though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Darian Stephens Trainee Engineer

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    43
    I do get in to battle relatively commonly, and my attack car's cargo container has been shot out a few times, despite better armoring after each fight. I place supplies to repair some of the damage before I get home, in case I become incapacitated. Part of those supplies are a cargo container's worth of components, so I can store the remainder if the container is destroyed and I don't use it all up on repairs. Yes, this update has helped.

    As for the backup generator...
    The thing is, that's impossible with the setup I've got. Sure, I can technically make reactors (If I got the silver), but there's no uranium on the planet; I can only find uranium on the Alien planet, and I'm not particularly close to getting to space. I could probably take my hydrogen fighter (Made due to hydrogen's lower power consumption than atmospheric, to illustrate how bad the power situation is here), but if I did, I'd need to head straight to the Alien planet since I'd otherwise have to ferry materials from Earth up to a midway asteroid base, due to asteroids only containing Iron and Silver. I'd need a reasonable stockpile of oxygen to get me there, enough hydrogen to land (Parachutes can ease the consumption, or I can make use of atmospherics, but then power...), enough materials to build an elevated base unless I want to bring tonnes of ammo, and then I'd need to build/bring a mining ship, since the spiders would tear me apart very quickly. And then I'd still need solar power until I can find and process the uranium! Plus, I need to gather all the materials to build the base there on the solar battery power from my Earth base, so even if I began work now, I'd still be bound by solar for a considerable amount of time, and would likely lose power a few times along the way, meaning I'd need to restart the conveyor network several times more.
    Even if I went through all that, having backup generators won't help unless they get turned on before the base shuts off, since that's when the conveyors break, and they don't get fixed just by regaining power (Since conveyors not working without power is just how the system functions).
    Really, I'm shooting for the moon right now so I can get my hands on gold to develop gravity-manipulation technology, to hopefully start building hover vehicles which take less power overall than pure atmospheric (Or to reduce the power needed by lowering the relative gravity, and thus weight of the cargo, depending on how much power Gravity Generators consume), and eventually a gravity-based Space Gun to shoot supplies up to the speck of light which is my space station, suspended in the vast nothingness.

    Mods which make said scenario possible:
    1. Scarce Resources (For changing the distribution of resources. I'm using this version which has ores spots removed as well, for prettyness and the extra challenge)
    2. Gravity Generator Physics Replacement (To make them work on voxels, including planets)
     
  10. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    628
    I haven't seen anyone say it yet, so let me get it in before we get a storm of salt like last weeks update thread. ;)

    Let there be rainbows and unicorns for everyone!

    You are welcome! :woot:
     
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  11. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,391
    My only real problem with the hover engine mod is that it would never have been a thing if the original Star Wars movie hadn't had landspeeders. We in fact have hovercraft today. If you know where to look you can have one in your garage tomorrow. I was qualified in the Army to do airframe work on the LACV-30, but never got the chance.
    [​IMG]
    Of course, these vehicles use air pressure to stay afloat, as opposed to God-Knows-What that keeps a landspeeder in the air. Given the unpredictability of terrain one would likely encounter on new planets, it would not beyond belief that Space Engineers in 2077 would employ air cushion vehicles. Modified atmospheric engines such as SEKTAN's AV Atmo mod would suffice if they could use the hover engine script. In my opinion, an atmospheric hovercraft engine would be an acceptable vanilla block as it would be in line with the game's technology limit.
     
  12. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,122
    I got your emergency power right here... (in a gravity environment)
    you need a rotor and a few armor blocks to act as the power switch.
    place the armor blocks on the rotor in such a way as when the power fails the rotor will swing down breaking the sensors range telling it to activate
    The sensor will be on a sub grid that is attached via landing gear and will make connection with the "main" grid via rotor connect. You will probably have to use pistons to get the height of sub grid(or the rotor head on main grid) just right otherwise a rotor connection might blow something up due to height difference of the landing gears.
    your mind... blown.

    Optional:
    Throw in a timer block and a few lights that get all flashy and displays that show "!! Emergency Power !!" for sexyness


    In a NON-gravity environment:
    Have the rotor spin the arm around.
    The sub grid must now contain a grav generator to push on the arm to slow it down
    The arm swings by and the sensor triggers a timer to reset count
    If the timer does not get reset in time it sets off the emergency power event.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  13. Chronenberg Morty Trainee Engineer

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    1
    thx for this update
     
  14. Darian Stephens Trainee Engineer

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    43
    So... how am I supposed to get power back to the grid? And how does that prevent me from losing power completely in the first place? I know there are power priorities, but thing turn off FAST, and the power doesn't really seem to ramp down if all the batteries run dry at once due to drawing equally from all of them (Once they've all run down, solar will fill them up equally, so even if they start uneven and can no longer power everything before the first shut down after a battery or two runs dry, they'll be synchronized for the next dry spell).
    Plus, even if you have a powered subgrid using the sensor, how are you meant to get that signal to the main grid to activate any backup power? You've isolated the small grid's power network so that it can remain active after the base shuts down, and connectors don't work unless both sides are powered. The best you could do is use a small rotor on the subgrid to connect to a rotor head on the main/a power-connected grid.
    Besides, that doesn't solve the issue of stopping you from completely losing power in the first place, since that's what causes the conveyor bug.

    Also, before anyone suggests putting a controlled seat on it to power down and up, that trick doesn't work for drones, since you can't press that to power them up again, and there might not be a space to put a manual cockpit (And you might not have the resources to build one in the first place, but that would be a pretty dire situation).
     
  15. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,122
    hmm... with the setup I described, you cannot prevent an initial power down. Power has to shut off to trigger the connection and power up using backup power. You have the rotor head ON the main grid and the rotor on the other grid. (ohh I see what you are getting at. If the other grid is a small grid then yes, for large grids there will need to be a Large rotor to small rotor head with another rotor head on the other side of it.) The external grid is the one with the sensor that detects when to attach the rotor head to transfer power.

    You could also use a script to detect low power/fuel and connect to a sub grid that does have batteries/reactors and then display emergency signs.

    honestly reactors should not just... "run out" of fuel all of a sudden. That is impossible. At the very least, they should fire off a trigger when 15 seconds of max drain is left.

    I have yet to actually come across the conveyor bug luckily.
     
  16. Rahl Trainee Engineer

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    36
    Any chance to get links on blueprients of screened Green transporter and wheeled vehicle?

    Edited.
    Ok nvm now. SE discord channel has helped me to find this creation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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