Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Update 1.185.9 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jan 18, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Mosseman Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    195
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Poopaduke2578 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    I personally would like to have the ability to use the rotors and pistons in MP. klang prevents that unless you like losing everything you own lol.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Poopaduke2578 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    From what I understand they would have to do core work which I don't believe they are willing to do. I think they should rid programmable blocks and scripts and just add blocks and options that said scripts allow you to do. radar would run off of antenna, integrating a specific block that can read condition statistics of grids, etc. that would get rid of ticks and the terrible effect they have in MP. but again that would require heavy programming which I don't think theyd be willing to do
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  4. EnjoyCoke Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    67
    Could you guys focus more on SE and less on medieval engineers?
    Medieval engineers is cool, and all.. but it doesn't have PBs. It also doesn't let you build a space ship and fly through space. It also doesn't let you shoot gatlin guns.
    Medieval engineers is, in all ways, inferior.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Özkan Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    Grinding the turrets crashed the game? Again? Ugh, well back to drilling or shooting them down I guess ^^'.
     
  6. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    624
    There are times when Clang sends in infidels to rant in the forum, as compensation for less thingies to explode, as the game is advancing... :clang:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Lord Clang Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    Quite right @Cetric.
    You can't just be happy all the time.:clang:
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    373
    The hype train derailed much of Keen's anniversary update. Better they lay low and take their time on the next big one.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  9. _alphaBeta_ Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    Any advice on avoiding this latest update for those fortunate enough to not have Steam open at the moment? Situations like this bring out the dark side of Steam's auto-update features.

    I'd go a bit easy on the criticism. Reading threads like this certainly wouldn't motivate me to continue to patch and finish a game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Konscience Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    54
    Of course they won't listen to isolate people like you because your ideas value is naught.
    The game has been in development for several years now. They are in a costly gamble, that is, running a long-term game development and be assured, they know what they are doing.
    Bugfixing is a natural stage in development, they aren't doing it to trigger you precisely.
    Instead of doing what you actually do, may I ask you to help them (because I guess It could have been your intention at a given time) by giving feedback on what is actually in game, and more specifically, new features and bug reporting.
    I ensure you that this way your actions would be greatly appreciated.

    Yours sincerely,
    Some random 4th year student in CS
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. Pegas519 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194
    I am with you. Did you have a look at ME update on January 9th?

    QUOTING:

    New Features:
    - Log walls: Similar to the palisades, these blocks allow you to create your buildings in a different style, it is available early on in the game, before moving on to the clay or stone walls.
    - Mechanical Switch Block: This block lets you turn off sections of your mechanical grid.
    - New Steamworks integration: This brings with it things like mod collections, mod dependencies, a much more robust mod handling solution, etc. For more information, check the Modding Changes part of this post.
    - Upgraded parallel logic: In our attempts to parallelize the game more to make use of all those cores, we inadvertently overused the threading, causing them to block each other. We have reworked our parallel logic systems, and now your CPU should be used more effectively, regardless of how many cores you have!
    - Camera shake: We have introduced a very slight camera shake to certain actions like cutting trees. This will make certain actions feel a lot more alive.
    - Broken tool handling: Any tool that breaks now spawns a broken tool item rather than immediately disappearing from your inventory. It can be melted into ingots.

    General Improvements:
    - Members of your house can pay ownership taxes again.
    - The main issue causing player data corruption was resolved.
    - Resolved a crash when the server was trying to send non-existent data to a client.
    - Other players no longer receive a notification whenever someone gets promoted/demoted.
    - Removed GPS from Medieval Master: GPS technology was not yet invented in the Medieval times.
    - Removed fast travel setting for traveling to undeveloped areas, made obsolete by the fast travel by roads.
    - The message that is displayed when you are adding dirt on top of another player now correctly writes their name.
    - We now save the third-person camera distance, so that when you reload the game your camera is in the same position.
    - Slightly increased character crouch height, as characters were able to crawl into places where the model would clip through the objects.
    - Player corpses: When you kill someone, or you die, the body can be looted. If you wait long enough the ragdoll will despawn and leave a lootbag behind as always.
    - The wild variants of the farmable plants now have a proper full growth cycle, including decay and regrowth.
    - Steel production now requires linseed oil for quenching. This makes steel a little bit more valuable.
    - Cancelling a craft now returns the used items correctly, even if the recipe requires tagged items.
    - You can no longer shovel while crouching.
    - We have re-balanced the material costs for all tools.
    - The killing blow with the crossbow now correctly shows hit markers.
    - Crossbow bolts now have a fall-off: All shots have a fall-off now, with wooden crossbows having the least amount of power and steel crossbows the most.
    - Seedbags no longer consume twice as much durability on clients as they did on the server.
    - Disabled the tutorial for Creative mode, though you can still start it by pressing F1 and clicking "Restart Tutorial".
    - Added sawmill quest to economic research tree, it is similar to gristmill quest, completing one also completes the other.
    - Tweaked some of the quest steps to function in creative mode, preventing the tutorial from getting stuck in creative.
    - Renamed "Bandit Deterrent" research to "Hunting", as it was always about hunting deer, and not scaring away bandits.
    - We've added the quest step completion sounds from the quest steps that were missing it.
    - Added copper shovel to several quest conditions where it made sense to have it.
    - Slightly eased up the military quests.
    - Clay walls now require clay to build.
    - Wheels and catchblocks are now stackable up to 5.
    - Changing target while holding F to pick-up items now resets the timer.
    - Fixed several cases of small blocks not sticking to large blocks correctly.
    - Fixed some cases of large blocks not correctly turning dynamic when they should.
    - Deconstructing the dead space engineer now gives you actual items, rather than non-existent stuff. But it's still creepy.
    - Added support for deconstruction to return other resources, mechanical blocks now return empty clay jars upon deconstruction.
    - Moving a claimblock to another area and deconstructing it there to avoid having a claimblock is no longer possible, the claimblock falls apart as soon as it becomes dynamic.
    - We taught barbarians how to correctly estimate their distance to players so that they can actually hit you again.
    - Barbarians no longer spawn in claimed areas.
    - Altered Barbarian Loot tables.
    - Deer now always drop pelts.
    - Updated deer animations.

    Modding Changes:
    - Overwriting file paths: Any file path that matches a file in the vanilla directory structure, or mod directory structure, will now overwrite it with whichever mod was loaded last. This means that you can now easily replace textures, sounds, etc. just by making sure it follows the same Content/../filename as it does in the base game. This does not apply to SBC files (They are managed by the Definition Manager instead), shader files (We don't want people to break GPUs), but all other files are overwritten. Please double-check your mods are not accidentally overwriting files.
    - Mod dependencies: Mods can now list other mods as a dependency. When you do so, the game will automatically add and download that mod in the mod list. For modders, this means you can now create library mods that other mods can rely on. For example, one mod could introduce coins to the game, another mod could create a mint, creating gold coins out of gold ingots, and yet another mod could allow you to use the gold coins to pay taxes.
    - Mod collections: You can now create a collection of mods and load it in its entirety. This one is especially useful for server admins, who can create a mod collection and manage it on the steam community pages, and then let their dedicated server just load the mod collection.
    - Mod downloading: We are now making use of the new Steam UGC system, which allows a much larger mod package. Some mods, especially the ones with 4k textures, would get quite large, and the old Steam API would not accept these mods. With Steam UGC this is no longer a problem. One big change here is that only local mods are now stored in appdata\MedievalEngineers\Mods, rather than all mods. The mods you download are automatically managed by Steam, so it didn't make sense to duplicate them on your harddrives. Finally, they are no longer zipped up, which allows Steam to perform incremental downloads, rather than having to re-download the whole mod again and again, each time you would make a change.
    - Added support for research quests to have parent quests in other branches.
    - Custom planet scenario now allows custom planets again.
    - Whitelisted MySectorWeatherComponent.
    - Whitelisted MyVoxelMaterialDefinition.
    - Crafting components now support Input, Output and Crafting inventories. When all three are specified the crafting cancellation fix is applied to your crafting station. Otherwise, the old behavior will be used.

    Old Version
    The last 0.6.1 version, the one you've been playing on for the past three weeks, remains accessible on the last_week branch on Steam. Should this update have any major issues to run you can let us know what is wrong and then revert to this version to keep playing until we fix it.

    Livestream
    Join us today at 7pm CET for our Medieval Engineers live stream with Tim "Deepflame" Toxopeus, the lead producer of Medieval Engineers, and Xocliw, host of the Keen Community Network!
    https://www.facebook.com/events/398922800561054/
    https://twitch.tv/keencommunitynetwork

    Enjoy!
    Keen Software House team

    Medieval Engineers Update 0.6.2.BF1BD4:
    - Fixed an issue preventing the dedicated servers in service mode from starting up.

    Medieval Engineers Update 0.6.2.AC0699:
    - Fixed the crashes on start-up.
    - Fixed the crash when killing barbarians, deer or other players.

    Medieval Engineers Update 0.6.2.903CBE:
    Crash Fixes:
    - Fixed a crash caused by mods with bad texture files.
    - Fixed a crash caused by mods with incorrectly edited model files.
    - Fixed a crash caused by an modded item with durability with a bad definition.
    - Fixed a crash caused by damaging barbarians and deer while they're already dying.
    - Fixed a crash caused by the dedicated server getting rid of dead barbarians and deer before the clients have the chance to synchronize the corpses.
    - Fixed a crash caused by the dedicated server trying to load fonts.

    General Fixes:
    - Lootbag ownership is now getting passed along correctly to the lootbag, resulting in the lootbag icon being visible on the compass again upon death.
    - Respawning no longer causes players to get slung into the air, or killing them instantly upon respawn.
    - Republishing a published mod should no longer overwrite the title or visibility settings from Steam.
    - Tool interaction distances have been updated to use the correct targeting distance again.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2018

    No need to say I was highly disappointed with SE update. Does this mean something?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Brian Yilmaz Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    27
    Can you pleaaaaaaase FINALLY remove this TOTALLY nonsense "STREAMING" Info? I mean what is this information worth? It shows me that I'm streaming to some other player on the server... so what? I can't decline it, I can't stop it so that information is COMPLETE useless. On top of that it is annoying as HELL!

    It has been in the game for months and months now why don't you please just remove it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    @EnjoyCoke ..... The ME dev team is a seperate group altogether. They do not cross over really. ME has a different project lead ( Deepflame ). What happens to ME has no bearing on what happens to SE. Some of us enjoy both games...but yes...in terms of development progress and communication with the forum and the playerbase...ME is a lot more active. Deepflame is regularly on streams playing the game, and seems to be more involved with giving direction and coherence to his efforts.

    Now as far as SE goes, the bugfixes this month are pretty minor, but you get some months like that. No....what worries me is the total lack of activity from the 'testers' in the bug reporting parts of this forum. Red seems to have vanished, and nobody is picking up the slack. Look at the bug reporting forum. Then look for threads with bug reports and posts from a member of the dev team. There is just one guy replying from Keen, and I have probably typed more in this reply than there is on the whole front page of the bug report forum from Keen staff. I find that odd....when the focus of the game is bugfixes.

    The survival update continues to vie with the Rapture and the Energy Death of the Universe to see which will happen first, and which people will still believe in. Wheels still don;t work properly and anything mechanical in nature still causes issues on server for multiplayer types. But hey...we got fixes.... but go back a few months, and the things they mainly fixed all worked. Go figure.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Daomephsta Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    20
    That's not what it means at all. The server simulates the entire SE world at once. Your client locally simulates the part of the world within a certain range of your character. When a grid enters this range, the server sends it to your client. That is what the streaming message is about, it is there to inform you that a grid is in the process of loading in and there may be some problems because of that (e.g weird rendering, lag). It has nothing to do with video streaming.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,188
    I think it's interesting that so many people come here to warn Keen that if they don't fix everything now people will stop playing.

    Then what? Keen employees will all be broke and homeless? Video game industry will crumble? Armageddon?

    I understand the worry. There are a lot of games in the works that are attempting to beat SE to the punch. I haven't witnessed this much furor over who can get out the best game since Halo: CE. By the time Halo 2 came out every new FPS was marketed at the Halo Killer. You don't remember them because they all died and Halo is still here.

    There are clearly a lot of newer people here interested in what improvements are in the update. Some may be under the impression that weekly updates means it should only take a week to find and fix a bug. Some may not be aware that SE started as a simple single player building game that got hijacked and shoehorned into being a multiplayer FPS. Pretty much like getting an aircraft carrier to do a 180. Keen's staff gets little credit for turning the game they started with into the game people seemed to want instead. In fact, they get a lot of crap for not having achieved what the average developer would not have even attempted. There are probably hundreds of new games like SE that haven't made it this far because their developers didn't think it would be this hard and/or got butthurt by negative comments from "fans". Keen is not doing what is expected, and some people interpret that as Keen is doing nothing.

    And, of course, some people still think the Change Log is the place to get Keen's attention.

    In reality, if production permanently ceased on SE tonight many of us would still play it. Some of us would look for someone else to "finish" it. Some Modders would probably still provide content for a while. Things would eventually settle into a new paradigm, and life would go on. No need to sound the Horns of Doom.

    New folks should be aware that there are other conversations going on here. There are other threads that actually discuss what's happening and what can be done. This thread continues, despite the efforts of many, to be the one where people complain, especially about stuff that might conceivably never get fixed. The fact that Keen has made it clear that the majority of weekly updates will be minor has not deterred some people from expecting a major update every week. This is why the discussions here are rarely about what did happen, and ends up being about what didn't happen. Common sense dictates that the number of things that do happen in any endeavor will be far outnumbered by the things that didn't happen (even if the endeavor was generally considered a success). It then becomes easy to characterize the things that didn't happen as ineptitude. This gives some people the opportunity to criticize an otherwise successful organization in a way that they, themselves, might possibly be used to.

    I don't expect it to end. I would just like to point out to those who were not around when all this started that the Prophets of Doom have been here since the beginning and they have been saying the same thing every week since weekly updates became a thing: Keen has failed to fix (X) and the game is dying/dead). They've been saying that since 2013. They'll keep saying it until they're right. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    For one second, anyway :)

    Read some of the other forums. Read the blogs. If after all that you still believe Keen has no interest in finishing this game then you have options, and not playing SE any more is one of them. I would encourage you to contribute to or start discussions about your concerns, keeping in mind that a discussion doesn't start with, "Keen's staff is stupid and lazy", or "You guys haven't fixed the thing that pisses me off. You suck." Fact is it's not hard to believe Keen pays little attention to the forums because it contains so much vitriol and real conversations tend to get derailed. Nevertheless you should try. Now is a good time for fresh voices and new ideas. It would be interesting to see what would happen with this game if everyone tried to be part of the solution in a positive way.

    Obviously, the negative way doesn't work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. Pegas519 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194

    Well, I quit playing and I know a lot of other good moders than helped shape SE have too. I am personally not questioning Keen staff integrity, but merely asking why so little updates when there are huge concerns about other large bugs lurking out. I quit playing because I can't stand the banging noise rotors and pistons makes when the ship moves, or the rattling the wheels produced. With 4200 hours, I heard enough and waiting for a fix.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  17. Lé Grand Sárrazin Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    125
    Surely, Denial is not a River in Egypt! ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    373
    Respectfully, this is a inaccurate characterization. Half of all improvements? Or are you just talking about blocks added since the fighter cockpit? Moreover, didn't the devs work with the author of the parachute mod to integrate it into vanilla? Doesn't "simply integrating popular mods" take some effort? We should recognize that.

    As an American lawmaker once said, "You're entitled to your own opinions, but you aren't entitled to your own facts." What is your evidence for this statement? The main SE page on Steam, for example, says that "74% of the 567 reviews in the last 30 days are positive." Even if one disputes those numbers, I honestly don't think there's evidence that the game is in a death spiral (as some posters have implied), despite nine relatively small updates in a row. Quite frankly, as I've said before, it's refreshing to see a lack of hype for the next major update.

    I do agree that it is a problem, or at least defeats the "roll back" feature, to have nine weeks worth of updates between the last restore point and now. Perhaps Keen could consider, during these longer development marks, putting down another rollback point sometime mid-course. In fact, if the next update is also a minor one (aside: I wonder how that would be numbered? 1.185.95?), making it possible to rollback to 1.185.5 would be a nice bonus.

    Actually, I always heard it as "Denial is not just a river in Egypt," but that may simply be a side affect of a Midwestern American upbringing-- we add extra sounds and phrases to everything :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Arcturus Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,611
    Ironically the community-interacting tester I23I7 moved from the SE team to the ME team.
     
  20. _alphaBeta_ Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    So I had left Steam open during the day I'm finding, so I got the update before I could prevent it. That said, I'm not getting the crash after building or grinding turrets down. I did notice Steam completed the latest download about five hours ago, which is way after the forum thread starting announcing 1.185.9. The version reported is also 1.185.901 in-game, so I'm thinking they pushed a hotfix and didn't update the first post of this thread. Just FYI. If not, the problem apparently doesn't affect all turrets, so I'll update the bug report that was opened to try and help narrow it down.
     
  21. Ondřej Nahálka Tester Staff

    Messages:
    70
    Hey

    ad turrets: this problem was fixed a few hours after the minor update.

    Please update your game (hotfix 1.185.901).

    Sorry for any inconvenience
     
  22. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    269
    To say the game is in a death spiral, dying or whatever the exaggerated claims are would be incorrect, stalled would be more accurate. How are they ever to move forward in the game with important updates to things like multiplayer, planet textures disappearing, pistons turning into IEDs etc, when a weekly "fixit" patch only exists to fix things that were working but they broke but at the same time breaks a basic feature of the game (grinding turrets) to the point where it crashes peoples games? (yes, I know it was hotfixed but the point stands).

    Keen have to get to the point where they are moving forward with features and stability, not just applying bandaids otherwise they will be left in the dust which would be a crying shame because at once point SE was one of the pioneers of this genre.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  23. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    This is echoing the point I tried to make. Why....when the game is in Beta....have the replies dried up to bug reports and the level of community involvement and communications throttle right back. Surely now the testers ought to be MORE active. If the testing effort in house has ramped up, then why do so many re-occurring bugs get out into the released versions? You expect it when the game is in constant feature change....

    But of course....that makes you a doom sayer. SE is still a good game. I just think it's lost what direction it had.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. jemccro Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    97
    If past major updates are any indication of the next one, it will include A LOT of bug fixes. What may be happening is that they are fixing existing bugs in the version of the game we all play, but for the next major update.
     
  25. Michael Viktor Starberg Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    Oh my me.

    Some lesser engineers says there is no game in this game. I beg to differ. Fired up my dear Alien world and it was pretty much on fire. Atmospheric thrusters are now cooking everything.
    Panic attack! I had to reload several times before I wrote a small script that turned all thrusters off. Luckely they was all connected so it was an easy thing to do. Peew.

    Now I'm in Creative redesigning my dear weldgrinder, miner and mini-miner . I have a tad bit of grinding and welding back in Survival to do once projected. I think I'm going to start with my welder/grinder.

    And I am not upset. This is fun and atmospheric thrusters should hurt. Makes me think I have been cheating all along when it comes to building compact ships. Maybe you shouldn't put a jet exhaust right next to a nuclear reactor? Maybe that was a bad idea? :)

    Reference:
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    373
    I understand how you could feel that way, but I do think they made a substantial amount of progress in 2017 on the stability front. The physics update two months or so ago is hardly a band-aid. Are you saying major changes like that should come more frequently? I could sympathize with that viewpoint, even though I have no idea if Keen could handle such a schedule (or what undesirable side effects it might have).

    I've always wondered why more people don't argue that Keen is spending so much time/resources on the next major patch that they can't roll out a minor one without bugs. That they are too future looking and not playing enough attention to the current user experience.

    Keen is really a victim of its own best intentions: The "weekly updates no matter what" mindset has engendered both unreasonable expectations on the part of users (me included, to be fair) and less-than-ideal QA in terms of patches and updates. By labeling updates as Minor/Major, they have unwittingly created false senses of value surrounding types of weekly updates. Frankly, I have far more enjoyed, and have far more benefited from, minor updates in terms of day-to-day enjoyment of the game.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. _alphaBeta_ Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    Ideally it would be great for both the current user experience and major release to keep moving forward. The current user experience is hard to satisfy without stalling forward progress though. Also to consider is that the current user experience may be changed quite a bit by a major update. In that case, all the current user experience bug fixing brought small returns for their time. It's a tall order for an early access game which isn't feature-locked yet.


    Putting labels on releases is indeed tough and can lead to expectations of all types. Some good and some bad. My impression is that the weekly updates seek to keep the community interested and to patch any glaring issues that come up. That said, I've seen a few complaints where some will say that the bug they're most interested in isn't getting fixed and it could very well concern a major game system/feature. Unknown to us, but this major feature could be planned for getting a total revamp some time in the future. Keen could see fixing the current state of it as not a good use of their time, especially if it diminishes their ability to move forward with new features.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  28. Deckedsilver Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    Hopefully the next update will stop turrets from shooting dead wolves and spiders
     
    • Late Late x 1
  29. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    578
    You can get old saves to work after an update and you roll back, I wrote a guide for it. It can be found here:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=939773481
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    624
    In general, I dislike the habit of some people here trying to ignite hard feelings between the two KEEN teams, the one on SE and the one of ME. Just because commentators like you feel they don't get as much attention as players of the other project may get, in their belief. It's pointless, provoking envy and mistrust and can only do damage within KEEN Softwarehouse, because by such nagging and comparing and calling names, praising one team and subsequently blaming the other, you strike at the camaraderie in the company, from which positive influence should arise for both teams, or the whole firm. We, the gamers, don't have any interest in any confrontation being caused by commentators who write first and think last. Because neither team profits from this. Or is this your goal?
    Yes he seemingly did. We can only speculate about reasons, but if he changed because he got sick of the tone of some commentators here, I would not be surprised.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.