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Update 1.185.91 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jan 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    418
    Actually, @Stardriver907, while I understand your point, I think there is also special onus on the part of Keen in terms of communication. As an early access game and one where, as many have pointed out, we (the players) are the ultimate beta testers, Keen should be expected to go to extra lengths to facilitate communication. They should be expected to devote resources and provide feedback, at least to those of us who earnestly report bugs. If they can't handle that (or don't want to pay someone to do that), perhaps it's time for Keen to prune away some of the many channels they provide for bug reports: these forums, Discord, the voting site, and in-game reporting/email just to name a few.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  2. Mirek Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    Didnt play this for some time, 2 years maybe? dont know. Is the magical gyro thingy still used for rotating ships, or did they allready implemented realistic phisics?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    423
    One of the biggest problems with Keen's communications is that most of the information we get from Keen these days is through the ephemeral channels: the Discord channel and Xocliw's Twitch stream. So the developers keep answering the same questions over and over (why can't we have liquid water, why can't we have compound blocks, and so on), and express frustration with having to answer them -- but there's nothing in writing for anyone to point to. So, in the other ostensibly official communication forums, people keep asking those same questions, and just get responses that the developers said somewhere that the features people are asking for are impossible, for some reason.

    The absolute worst is the "feedback" site, the most popular suggestions on which are routinely mocked in those ephemeral channels -- but, there's no comment from the developers, so it looks like those suggestions are still viable.

    Sure, the developers shouldn't be bogged down in having to answer dumb questions all day -- which is why they answer each once, in writing, somewhere with a URI that people can link to. Having a FAQ isn't exactly a new idea. Moreover, apparently Keen does have staff that are supposed to be managing communications. They can be a buffer between developers and users, if they need a buffer -- but that does require actually getting answers from the developers for the users' questions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    Not sure what you mean. Yes, gyros are still necessary to rotate a ship on a given axis. Magic not required, just like in real spacecraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope#Gyrostat
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    327
    Still the magic gyro. I can't see them ever introducing a mechanic to make thruster placement matter, TBH I dont think they should it is good as it is.
     
  6. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,391
    This is all (somewhat painfully) true. Because the game is Early Access we should expect Keen try as hard as possible to have us Early Adopters make them aware of problems, but it's not like they haven't tried. Some of their attempts have not been... handled well. Xoc's stream appears to have become Xoc's stream whether he's streaming from the office or from home and, let's face it, trying to ask a genuine question in Xoc's chat is nearly impossible and even if he see's the question he's distracted way before he can give any type of response. Meanwhile, Keen Community Network sits idle. It's maddening.

    There is only one method of communication between us and Keen that's going to be anything near perfect and that's a well-produced and run LIVE STREAM that is as consistent as the weekly update. In my opinion, there should be a KCN Live Stream every Thursday for SE and every Tuesday for ME. Someone from Keen will be there to explain the update and answer questions. No silly stuff. No bits or acknowledging subscribers or followers or chat games or song requests. Just a good, solid Q&A session that lasts as long as it needs to, and the "guests" are Keen staff that can answer questions with authority. Hearing stuff live from Keen staff would do much to quell the anxiety of fans. Way more than Twitter posts. Let me tell you nothing got me more excited than when Rexxar was a guest on Xoc's show and someone asked a good question and Rexxar wrote it down. I only wish I could know what happened next.

    I mean, if they just read and discussed the Change Log that would be way better than just listing the fixes in the thread. We might actually start calling the update "Patchmas" again, and Keen's staff could put an end to the weekly doomsayers easily and effectively.

    I've brought this up before and no one said no but... I dunno why it hasn't happened.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. denismaster Trainee Engineer

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    10
    The joke from some russian forums:

    New! - Update 1.185.92 - Beta Improvements
    - Fixed some bugs that players haven't seen
    - Not fixed some real bugs
    - Added some hundreds new bugs, just for lulz
    - New blocks/mobs/gameplay mechanics/weapons/content/etc? Hah, use mods, fool
    - Promised that new major will be awesome. The new dirt texture on windows is awesome, isn't it?)
    - We had a great party in Vegas, do you want to see some photos?)

    Joke? Maybe. Or reality?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Caatalyst Apprentice Engineer

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    102
    Man i hope we get the golden fix today. Multiplayer / dedi Desync and low sim speeds ELIMINATED.
     
  9. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    None of this is the real problem. The real problem is the lack of clarity. Nobody really knows whether their bug report was missed, ignored or actually logged in Keen's internal bug tracker, so obviously people will (re)post existing bugs when they see that the previous ones don't have a response or confirmation, because they want to be certain the bug they're reporting actually gets fixed.

    Here's a great example of a clear and concise bug section: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/oni/

    As you can see, Klei tied their internal bug tracker to the forums, so everyone (including their testers/developers) can see which bugs are already logged, pending, rejected or fixed. Most of all, once Klei fix a bug, they don't even have to revisit the forum to notify everyone, since their internal tracker automatically updates the associated forum posts with the correct bug status. Of course, because they're communicative developers, most of the time they do reply with a thank you.

    Unfortunately @Stardriver907, as everything is right now, it is better to just let everyone (re)post their bug reports to be certain Keen at least see them, rather than having them think "oh, no point in posting this, I'll just get bitched at". That may be the one time that nobody has actually reported the bug and then it falls into the abyss for months until someone else bothers to report it.

    It's up to Keen to improve the situation and there are plenty of options to do so without resorting to them doing mass-cleanups to stay on top of it all. One of which is above. When it comes to bug reports, automation is the king of efficiency.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    No F5'ers out there anymore? The show may be soon.... :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Auhrii Apprentice Engineer

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    F5 carrier 'Ryū no hokori', reporting in!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    10-4! Any reports on radar yet? :)
     
  13. Auhrii Apprentice Engineer

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    Negative, no contacts. Switching to passive long-range.
     
  14. Super_Happy_Alien Apprentice Engineer

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    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Auhrii Apprentice Engineer

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  16. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    Curses! Facebook!!!

    Maybe *It's a trap!"
     
  17. megapro Trainee Engineer

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    thx for the info. so it's just going to be 1.185.92 minor today.
     
  18. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    Announcement on Twitter, next major will be during a Twitch live stream in the next couple of days.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Late Late x 1
  19. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    A little late @gordon861 but thanks for the information!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    By 'late' I assume that you mean that it is mentioned in the Facebook post above, which being at work is blocked for me and therefore useless. And as there was no other real info on here or in the 'change log' forums I thought it was best to actually post more info that just 'No update today'.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  21. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    @gordon861 no ill will from me on your post. I am currently at work also so yeah no fb, (I kinda stay away from it anyway) but yeah just was saying late cause was already there before yours. Again wasn't trying to be short about it. :)
     
  22. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    no worries
     
  23. Lurch84 Trainee Engineer

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    I've mentioned about the update over on steam, so people there are in the loop too. Thanks for posting about it here, I avoid FB/twitter so would've been none the wiser. Keen and their coms ha!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Lé Grand Sárrazin Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm not gonna lie, I only go on FB if I'm tryin to meet-up with a girl before I get her number.. so FB is a no-go info-wise.

    Same goes for Twitter, etc. *shrugs*

    So, thanks for the heads-up guys.
     
  25. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,942
    If only there was some kind of official Keen forum for this kind of Announcement.
     
    • Funny Funny x 13
    • Agree Agree x 3
  26. YesWeCant Trainee Engineer

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    40
    Well I am kinda curious what the upcoming major update has in store.
     
  27. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    Considering the cat is out of the bag everywhere else ... WHY THE HELL IS THERE NOT AN OFFICIAL POST ON HERE SAYING THE SAME?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Lé Grand Sárrazin Apprentice Engineer

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    Well.. you know how it goes..
     
  29. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,391
    "Official" Keen channels exist primarily so that Keen can say there are "official" channels. Staff isn't aware of the official channels so they use Facebook.

    Seriously, Facebook was supposed to be where young people could share their interests and possibly find a new friend. When did it become the premier announcement venue for Business?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    628
    Well sadly an overwhelming majority of people are glued to their mobile devices and fb. I agree with you @Stardriver907 Seriously where I work is right on a River. With a nice beautiful river walk. I saw an entire family walking together down it...all of them not saying a word to each other, all of them faces glued to a phone. Really is depressing to see.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.