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Update 1.185 - Major Physics Overhaul

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Nov 17, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    There's nothing ignorant about pointing out issues- that's how things get fixed and improved; if all you do is sing someone's praises and ignore the fact they make bad mistakes, then they will never improve.

    1. MOD API is unrelated to the issues discussed- nice try though. That said, if we all had to rebuild our ships with every update, or alteration that isn't mentioned in patch notes, then we'd never build anything new...
    2. The fact people who didn't have sim speed problems suddenly do would indicate it's an issue with the game and not their pc specs- quite obvious really.
    3/4. Yeah, I did read the blog post and patch notes- I fail to see how that changes the fact that a lot of these changes to the game have only fixed clang in some areas, and introduced him into others.

    Thanks for your wonderfully insightful post though. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  2. [LP] OMG Shadow® Trainee Engineer

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    68
    I just have to adress this.

    First of all, yust dor you: If noone informs Keen about any problems, they might never know about them and as a result they can't fix them. So saying things like: "My simspeed suddenly drops" or "This special arrangement of blocks tends to randomly explode where it shouldn't" has nothing to do with "ignorant kids shitting about it", whining or rioting.
    And from the software engineering aspect of those problems I cans say: There is no "easy". Also, the mod API has nothing to do with explosing grids.

    Next thing: Maybe you haven't heard about it, but I'm pretty sure not everyone's gonna like such rude behavior that you're showing off. Calling people "lazy cunts" won't get us to take you more seriously.
    So please, watch your language.

    Oh, one last thing: Calling others ignorant and giving a **** on others problems in the very same post is pretty ironic, don't you think?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    Yeah, that's a wonderful 'improvement' caused by removing rotor-lock and replacing it with a couple of self-destruct options instead, essentially. Rotor lock is still needed to permanently fix sub-grids in place at desired angles, since they don't behave when locked to another object/voxels, but the main grid isn't- the shared tensor option won't help, nor will invulnerable sub-grids since it's the main grid that suddenly & violently swings around when the sub-grids are locked to voxels, you have to have rotor lock for tilt-rotor and retractable landing gears to function correctly.

    Of course, some people want to pretend this isn't a problem and everything is just perfect after the patch; I pity their lack of design skill, but if they like flying bricks over mechanically interesting designs, so be it...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Ulmo Trainee Engineer

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    2
    Yes please, the mp is now unplayable, why import physical if the ServerSim crap is? pls we need a HotFix.


    [​IMG]
     
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  5. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    I wonder if running a genuine copy of windows 7 might help? :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  6. Zac Lee Trainee Engineer

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    with these no doubt amazing advancements in mechanical stability, is there no chance to also have a safety lock?
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409

    you have an email
     
  8. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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  9. [LP] OMG Shadow® Trainee Engineer

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    Well that's one well appreciated message:D
    Thanks for delivering @Thrak!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    No one in this thread has called the update "perfect."
     
  11. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    "Great", "amazing", "wonderful", "exciting", "inspiring" etc etc have all been used ( mainly by people who hadn't actually done anything to test, let alone strain the physics engine yet ); I'd say that's close enough. The small number of people who have tested and/or observed Clang in his new incarnations have been consistently shouted down for daring, DARING to call the update anything other than 100% positive.

    I rest my case.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409

    i havnt been shouted down when i posted about something which has affected a great many of my builds. infact i had a dev ask me for more information which i have given him. its totally reproducible as well. that said i have a load of other works of insanity that are now working better than ever so yeah all in all it is positive and great
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    402
    No one has suggested the devs stop refining this change, fixing issues, or, again, that this is "close enough" to perfect. Your hyperbole belies the good points you occasionally raise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. farrell1701 Trainee Engineer

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    8
    Bug reports:

    Large grid mining ship driven by gravity in creative slipped the surly bonds of physics and sank to the core of the planet. Video of the trip, including the ship used:
    -- skip to 13 minutes in to witness the moment of slippage.

    Also reporting that jettisoning a rotor head mounted on top of a small ship grid in flight in atmosphere led to only a partial disconnect of the rotor - its attached sub-grid would freely swing around honoring the rotor's hard stops and would still fire gatling guns on that sub-grid, but a camera on that sub-grid was not available and the sub-grid itself could not be shaken off or controlled, even flying inverted. (Didn't get a video of that one, sadly.)

    Other than that, some interesting rule changes that appear to have improved things, and I suspect that as with any major rip-and-replace, time will tell as more reports come in; I remain guardedly optimistic. (Though it would have been nice to have some forewarning of the piston change to save some grids from damage. Even just a "if you have multiple pistons attached to the same sub-grid, consider removing them" would have sufficed. And for the rabid folks about to shout "It's early access" in response, it's also something that other early access games are quite up front with doing to ensure their players are aware of major game-change mechanics before they're in place.)

    - Farrell
     
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  15. Blacky [GER] Trainee Engineer

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    7
    no xocliw videos,
    nothing what you promissed us about the game
    gladly i did not bough ur other game! if i could i would also get a refound for SE!

    edit: but hey, screw it, we are keen, we dont give a fuck what our community want
    we lie to them, do nothing for them and they are stupid to pay us, so lets melk this cow to death ..

    thats exactly how SE went ..
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  16. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    Funny, I didn't say that anyone had said that- a non-sequitur argument is hardly the way to approach the issues I've stated. I stated that there are people shouting other people down when they state a negative opinion- it happens to me ( feel free to say I deserve it, it doesn't mean I'm wrong ), I see it all over the facebook group too; you can't make a simple statement about things still being broken ( recently or long-term ) without a dozen potty-mouthed teenagers turning up and declaring that infact, Keen are the best dev team ever and the game is amazing, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong and their opinion doesn't matter.

    Don't make me have to go and quote a few dozen people to prove my point- this thread alone is full of people singing Keen's praises yet they've done nothing to actually test the game after the update, and a handful of people that actually have and are reporting new issues.

    Ofcourse Keen still need to do more work, no one is saying they aren't- how that can be turned into an argument against people finding/not finding issues is beyond me.
    --- Automerge ---
    FTFY :tu: Not everyone is so lucky- might wanna checkout Spets and W4sted's recent videos...
     
  17. Armada115 Trainee Engineer

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    34
    Has anyone else run across the Inventory bug? i've come across when transferring items from your own inventory to cargo those item icons stay in the inventory aren't really there. I remember the inventory bug got fixed but could something cause it to come back? i'm having leave the game completely and reload to fix this bug.

    Currently playing on a DS survival


    Great Update! loving it.
     
  18. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    [​IMG]

    #stresstest.
     
  19. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Testing from multiple players has confirmed that ship-phasing is alive and well. SimSpeed is better than before the hotfix but not where it used to be; SimSpeed during a crash scenario is in the shitter, comparable to Day 1 of planets. This crash took well over an hour to get to this endpoint. Which wasn't even the ACTUAL end of it; from here on out blocks broke via microvibrations but i didn't have the patience to sit there for another hour to see her finally sink in. (It's 3 am over here.)


    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Kiithnaras Trainee Engineer

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    74
    Heck yeah! Amazing work, guys!
     
  21. Herpaderpa Trainee Engineer

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    Strange, took only around 2 minutes for my ship crash to render :S Which is very little if you take into consideration that it's 150mt and 700m long... Was extremly suprised to say the least :p
    [​IMG]

    Edit: Obs, forgot to add simspeed :p it stayed at around 0.5 for around 4-5 mins after the crash before fully recovering back to 1 :D
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  22. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,942
    [​IMG]

    Now that i have a little time on my hands i've started up SE to do some proper testing. Admittedly, it's just a quickly whipped up, super-non-representive test dingy but with a newly built Rotor instead of a pre-existing one this is remarkably stable.
    Of course - that small grid weighs basically nothing so we ARE going to do more testing. Of course that does NOT excuse the removal of a feature NOR excuses breaking of existing ships. We'll see how bad (or good) it is when we know if this will keep a Small Grid Room in place. Testing continues!

    Edit: well, it was nice while it lasted. Rotor Safety Lock when?

    [​IMG]

    Edit: so... i guess i'll continue to not use Rotors: https://clips-media-assets.twitch.tv/153157204-1280x720.mp4#t=0
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  23. macgeifer Apprentice Engineer

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    137
    congratulations commander, you can push the engine to its limits. maybe just try a bit smaller ships and have fun in case you ever had in SE. QUALITY SHITPOST OVER AND OUT

    @topic: nice changes and very nice devblog (we need more of these:)
    its not perfect and will never be, but thats a huge step in the rigth direction. thx keen, new hope for your game
     
  24. Sapioit Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    What I dislike is the voxel damage, which makes the voxels very powerful and the blocks, in relation to the ground voxels, very weak. Maybe consider cranking up the ground voxel damage, so inertial weapons such as orbital weapons like the "rods from gods" will actually do more realistic damage to the "ground".

    Maybe make the speed a more important factor in ground/terrain voxel's damage, so that at lower speeds the damage is similar, but at higher speeds the damage is greater (to the ground), and maybe reduce a bit of the speed loss while hitting the ground voxels.
     
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  25. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Dat burn
    --- Automerge ---

    Irl "rod of god" would probably just sink in few meters instead of plowing in a 20 meter wide hole disintegrating tons of both metal and soil
     
  26. Sapioit Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    Yes, it would, but in SE I couldn't make one to behave like that, unless I made it very long, while IRL a 2 meters long rod of thungsten would create quite a hole, up to hundreds of meters deep, depending on it's weight. I mean, it's been proposed as means to take out underground bunkers located hundreds of meters below the ground, compromising the structure they hit by creating holes which would allow explosions to reach inside previously secure enviroments.
     
  27. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253

    Im not so sure about that hundreds of feet of ground thing...

    But lets think about this thing gameplay-wise shall we?

    Right now solid steel blocks are most likely the most efficient way to actually bomb someone.
    Only counterplay vs them is actually to dig underground.
    We probably dont want a way to penetrate 200 to 300 meters of voxels since it would make digging down under useless.
    + we already have drills.
    Attach few parachutes & warheads to a drill to make it dig straight down and penetrate into enemy base.
    Heck you can even drop it from an airplane!

    Or using drill drone to do the same thing.

    Warheads are too quite cheap.
    These also have counterplay as either can be stopped with turrets.

    I personally dont think this kind of instant massive vocel penetration thing should exist in the game. We already have the tools required for tackling underground opponents who are pretty much in disadvantage anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

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    Is that even existing? :D
     
  29. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    On the positive side, your machinima version of Star Trek: Beyond is coming along well.

    (Our household watched it together last night. So painfully over-the-top.)
     
  30. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,942
    Aw. Really? BEYOND is the one that comes to your mind?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.