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Update 1.185 - Major Physics Overhaul

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Nov 17, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sapioit Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    Well, since we have warheads, why not a special block for that, requiring lots of resources, and having lots of weight? I mean, 9 tons for a non-nuclear tactical nuke damage is not that bad, since we already have the warhead, and the weight would make the kinetic warhead close to equaling a nuclear warhead. But how? Simply by allowing the damage to depend on the speed of the impact. So at terminal velocity, with a few tons of mass, one should make quite a hole in the ground. A small ship spaceball can have 5 Tons of weight. If we add most of the weight in the tip part (so it will hit with the tip), and 5 tons would require quite a bit of steering, if not hitting a fixed target, or of slightly off course. And it works especially well with a mod that increases the speed of vehicles, so people can steer even less, and even more damage can be done.

    The data is in the hidden text block above this line of text.
     
  2. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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  3. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,044
    So...

    [​IMG]

    @Inflex ... perhaps you would be good enough, to save us the time and trouble of investigating with debuggers and trial-and-error testing, to tell us exactly how many is 'too many' blocks to have in a world, and if it's variable, what parameters does it depend on. At least then we would know what is a reasonable block limit per ship/player to allow on a server. Evidently it is substantially below the default figures offered by the game configuration menu. Also are these limits set in stone, or might they be increased at some indeterminate future time if/when improvements to the underlying game are forthcoming ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Slywolf117 Trainee Engineer

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    33
    You know, these updates would be great...if we could actually PLAY on a dedicated server. The game still lags to hell, rubberbands you everywhere whenever the low performance warning shows up, or the "streaming" icon crap at the bottom. how about focusing on multiplayer now, instead of single player? Ok, you finally fixed rotors/pistons and collision with the ship's own parts, to prevent the whole thing from going Jihad for no reason. Now fix multiplayer. We want to PLAY the game with people, not just solo.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  5. [LP] OMG Shadow® Trainee Engineer

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    68

    @Blacky [GER]
    And another one...
    But hey, at least one point to agree with: no update videos with Xocliw are a bit sad.
    But.
    First: Watch your language! If you have a problem with something, say it without randomly insulting anyone in your range.
    Second: As a software developer, let me tell you what software developing needs the most: Time. That code doesn't come out of nowhere, it has to be written and integrated into the rest of the code. And before that, what mostly costs even more time, changes, features, functions and everything your software consists of, needs to be planned carefully. And after everything has been implemented, it needs to be tested, which in general takes a lot of time, depending on the complexity. Are you really naive enough to think that all of that is done instantly?
    Third: Report is out.
     
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  6. Nikarampo Trainee Engineer

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    47
    The most amazing thing about this update is that we got some insight at the development process at Keen. They just know how to efficiently manage their workload. If something is going to be re-written, there's no reason to fiddle with it and patch around it, no matter what the community says. This is the whole concept of early access. Not balancing survival for so long, not touching wheels for so long, and before this update, not making any major changes to physics, everything is intentional. They knew their problems and put them on a list until they can focus them down and decide how to proceed. They are just trying to work efficiently, and some people around here just don't get it.

    Keep at it guys. We're deeply in love with what you're creating.
     
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  7. Vereena Trainee Engineer

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    24
    After a weekend of playing with the game, I have to admit, that it feels far more stable than before.
    Apart from the issues I had (which I reported before - Ship with rotors exploding when connecting to static grid and wheels not remembering settings) The game is far more stable. My multi piston mining rig does not randomly explode anymore.
    I tested my construction crane, works fine.
    Tried it with extendable connectors, ship no longer goes into spin.
    Simspeed is steady 1.0, to be fair I did not play MP, but I don't generally play MP.

    I would still like to have something that stops the rotors (similar to "safety lock" welding we had before). As I find it a very useful feature that allows me to adjust the position of the crane. I know I can just write a script that sets the speed to 0 and to whatever value I want. But a "handbrake" for rotors will be cool!

    All in all, this update brought a lot of positive changes and I am very happy bunny :)
     
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  8. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253

    Turn the rotor off on max braking torque?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Vereena Trainee Engineer

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    24
    Thanks for the suggestion, I tried this as well, the effect is only slightly less violent, sharing the tensor does not help either.
    with rotors off and breaking torque to max and torque at 0 the wings just fly off somewhere,
    with the tensor shared on, the wings freeze at awkward position and the moment you unlock from the static object (grid or voxel alike) the ship explodes.

    I learned to not lock the gears and use a proxy vessel, a truck to transfer cargo between the ship and a station (when I lock to a moving grid, nothing explodes).
     
  10. Inflex Developer Staff

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    383
    Interesting, I did not get alert when you pinged me. Could you please ping me again in your next response so I know if it was one time bug or I have disabled notifications somewhere, cos I don't remember disabling it anywhere.

    Back on topic tho.
    This warning is not sensitive neither on block count nor block type or world block limits. Neither of those, the principle is much simpler.
    We know that certain parts of the game are problematic for performance and as the game runs, we measure these on how long it took to process them each frame. Whenever there is huge one time spike OR(and) given sector takes consistently more than average/desirable time to process we raise these warnings. This should give you some early feedback on why is the game slow and what simple steps you can take to make it run faster.

    As you can see, since it's time-based measurement, it's highly dependent on your system. In this case, some PCs might handle thousands of blocks with no problems because of strong CPU, on the other side some might handle much less.

    In case of "Blocks update" warning, it means there is too much active blocks like refinery, assemblers, charging jump drives, .... Try to disable some of these that you don't use at the time so game doesn't have to process them each tick.
    There are also other warnings, from top of my head for example "Physics". This one triggers whenever there is too much debris flying or lying in the world and it takes too long to simulate it all. Get rid of your trash and the game will run faster again.

    We can't unfortunately give you any more specific info on what block to disable or what grids are taking so long to simulate cos it would involve much larger performance impact.
    I hope I explained it in understandable way and it makes sense now.
     
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  11. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

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    239
    Oh, hey, yeah, I forgot that the single-player mode didn't actually exist and shouldn't be fixed as much as the multiplayer side of things.

    Also, sorry for the editing of quotes, Grammarly did it.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,044
    @Inflex Thanks for the comprehensive reply... are there likely to still be significant improvements in the performance of the game, or is the optimization phase now past its peak ? ("we just don't know" is an acceptable answer :)

    I suspect the issue with the alert is down to the PoS php-based forum software (not a criticism of your choice of software as they're all about as bad as one another) and its inconsistent and broken usage of different forms of user tagging in responses.
     
  13. Inflex Developer Staff

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    383
    We are constantly on a hunt for better performance. This fight never ends... :p
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253

    Hey just out of curiosity.
    Feedback site states "better explosions " have been started.

    Can you tell if this is somekind of optimization or are there other changes coming too?
     
  15. Emod Trainee Engineer

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    46
    I'm happy with the recent update. I found out the sensor bug that has annoyed me for over two years is fixed. Also the feeling of timers sometimes glitching is gone. Thanks guys!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Vereena Trainee Engineer

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    24
    I just came back from the office and tested your suggestion, switching off rotors with high breaking torque works like a "handbrake" thanks for that.
    The ship still explodes after disconnecting from static grid though:(
     
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  17. MrJinx Apprentice Engineer

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    122
    Thats funny, I was sure there was a crash to desktop that was reported "by me"... no fix for this yet?
    every time i quit a world.. COD. on all 4 of my PC's modded or vanilla. freshed install or updated.. still happends after todays patch..
    Sent in the *form* everytime. says " Thank you will will fix this" even loads my e-mail address. no questions. no addtional information asked for.

    anyone else spotted these Crashes?
    *peace out*
     
  18. Saberwulfy Apprentice Engineer

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    291
    In short, gentlemen, is it safe to upgrade or the old rotors blow up before they adapt?
     
  19. Dabombinable Trainee Engineer

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    24
    Is the laser antenna range increase only for the large version?
     
  20. carbonCore Trainee Engineer

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    37
    Holy crap. This update single-handedly reawakened my love for this game. The last great disappointment, a huge planetary hovership I spent several days on, relied on two -- *only two* -- pistons, and still managed to explode. Right now, with this update, the critical part is kind of shaky, but it works!!!! The shakiness fits the ship design, and can be mitigated. Holy shit you guys did it. I can't believe it, you saved the game. I was sure it was going to wither into an early access grave. But this... if this thing now works, I believe Keen when they say that other designs will work well, too. I love you Keen, I'm sorry I ever doubted you. Wow, just wow, great job guys. Would write more but gotta go work on my planetary ship. Love and peace!
     
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  21. Alli Trainee Engineer

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    29

    All depends on the server, the number of players, the number of different grids in the same zone etc....
    The last test that i was able to do in multiplayer brought me to limit the ships to 2500 Blocks and to have to pass them in station for the players to have a reasonable simspeed.

    After that, it depends on the equipment, script, pressurization...
     
  22. KitCat Trainee Engineer

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    3
    Just let my car drop from 0.5 metres to the ground after building it. Tires started to freak out, bug-teleport around in a 10-meter-radius. Watched it for like 10 minutes, until the whole vehicle started to vibrate. It would then lift off the ground for approximately 2-3 metres every now and then, then randomly stop mid-air and stand still, until someone goes near it, then it would start again. We eventually dared to move the whole thing after watching it freak out for about half an hour. Ended up with exploding tires and the whole thing was launched into space (no joke), rotating so fast that I had to turn my head away in order not to puke. I know tires weren't a part of this, but it is so frustrating to have this first contact with a "major physics overhaul", that turned out to been a major flop. Was actually excited to put another 200-300 hours into the game, but it seems my nerves are better off without it... Maybe you should've included tires into this update as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Artax Trainee Engineer

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    27
    I remember there being a list of rules associated with the physics update, and a few caveats. The "rules" aren't to prevent you from doing things, but to point out if you do break the rules you are likely to break physics. I have seen massive improvement in my single-player play. It's not perfect, it's not for multi-player, and it's not for dedicated servers. You have to start somewhere. Every animated block will hit your sim-speed, and will continue to do so to some degree in the future. It will never be completely eliminated. However, it may eventually be significantly reduced. I am liking the changes, the wheel issue is more than physics though. Sinking into voxels is a big problem, and not an easy fix.
     
  24. Kaemmelot Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    My view on this update:
    New and faster physic calculations -> <3
    Less random explosions -> nice!

    Random simspeed drops in multiplayer and warnings about too many block updates, too many physic objects, too many grid updates and too many pressurized areas (there is only the planet, lol) on a world with one small and one large movable grid (connected via Connectors to a static one), 7 static grids (containing 5,5k of 6k overall blocks), only one player online, none floating objects and only a few terminal blocks on standby -> damn!
    Not beeing able to place a single block in multiplayer after digging away some stone and even massive-spamming that left mouse button to get that LA block placed -> un-play-able!

    And the server is a quad-core with 2.4GHz base frequency and 8GB RAM. It's not running anything else at the moment, but with every block placed 2 cores go up to 100% for sometimes a few seconds and my game mostly freezes...
    Even when flying via jetpack under the surface of a planet I constantly see the too many physics updates warning... wtf?

    I cannot play like this. Urgently waiting for the hotfix :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. MagicalFungi Trainee Engineer

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    17
    ^ that is a garbage server... im not surprised you are having issues. Any server running this game should be faster and have much more ram. This is more the server's fault than keen's.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
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  26. Darkheyr Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    I'm having the crapton of warnings on single player as well. Maybe that server could be better - but frankly, my specs are leaps beyond that server, and I'm getting "too many physical interactions" with a single 8-wheeled rover, "too large or too many pressurised areas" with two large grids - a ship and said rover - of less than 500 blocks each - and so on.

    Something is off, and it's not on the user side.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Dabombinable Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    24
    Ok, I'm glad that I was able to use my rover to stockpile ore before the update. The wheels keep on having the steering angle maxed out and friction reduced to 25% when I load a save, and despite friction sort of working in how well the rover can climb slopes-it slides around like its on ice now (4 small 5x5 wheels BTW).

    220K uranium going through a refinery with 4 yield modules should provide enough fuel for a decently sized atmospheric craft.
     
  28. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    630
    I've not looked at this and I am not at home, but rotors have a max and min angle setting right? Why not try, if for example you need 45 degrees, set min to 44 and max to 46 or maybe even like 42-48 so it has a little flex so it won't have enormous amounts of force to counter instantly. Just keep the rotor on, but with tight angle restrictions.
     
  29. Lithorn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    50
    Every server I play on now in which I try to build and use a rover, results in the car glitching so badly that it sinks into the earth. Why is this
     
  30. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

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    317
    It's been a while since I wrote here on KSH forum. It doesn't mean I haven't play SE or haven't fallow forum, cause I have. As most of SE users - not gamers, it's really hard to think abou SE or ME like about typical games, for me it's more like environment to release inner creativity, more like program with everything standing behind this name - I've put lot of hope in next, I mean this major release and... I have to admit this major update surprised me in a good way. Of course I had hope to see new features, blocks, but what you did to physics is far more better than anything I've expected. This update haven't damaged any of my blueprints, in fact it made everything more stable. Some of my additions to my creations, like hardware handbrakes or gyro stabilizers to compensate additional masses far from main grid center mass, gyro ESP, thrusters helping wheels push up wheeled inventions uphill, now are pointless, however this additions can be removed, or kept as relicts of passed problems with physics or lack of expected behavior. I'm very happy with this update, really major change for me, change which fully deserved hyping about we've seen for last few weeks. I haven't noticed any sim speed drops or game crush in my private, SP games. I hope MP worlds are as stable as my own. I will check MP playability when I'll be back to my glasswired home. I've just wanted leave some positive feedback, you've earned it, keep up a good fight KSH!
     
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