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Update 1.186.3 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Feb 22, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    You weren't specific about what proof I needed to supply for what; as it happens, and I already said previously, I had a dev chime-in on one of my long lists of reports and they only chose to acknowledge one issue from the list- I can only assume they saw the whole list seeing as they chose which one to respond to. Here:

    https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/1-184-0-whole-bunch-of-new-and-old-issues.7397163/#post-1287072487

    the dev was 12317 no less. Do I win something now?

    A point however- if we as players report bugs or issues ( some really need to be reported according to the special guidelines as they are are bugs with a specific cause or are hard to duplicate- some just need a basic 'this thing is a bug, no further explanation required' kinda thread title and quick description ), in the correct place ( the bug report forum ), is it not up to the devs to look at each report and sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak? If KSH will not or cannot pay for enough devs to check reports quickly enough, then yeah, chances are the reports will be ignored or overlooked ( something something prioritising something something ).

    As it is, one of the devs said just a few days ago that most reports go unanswered / not looked at and instead we as players should raise a report on some other forum, here:

    https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/u...-wheels-rotors.7400029/page-2#post-1287087719

    with that in mind, as an undeniable point of fact, me stating that reports are actively ignored is 100% accurate and not false at all.

    So, where's my cookie?
     
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  2. CinnabarDragoon Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Is multiplayer going to ever be getting a major optimization? So, we got physics overhaul, we got visual overhaul.... I think its time for something we've always been waiting for. New feature and bug updates need to hold the phone a bit. I would totally trade an entire 6 months of new 'features' for a stable multiplayer about now. This game would explode if multiplayer could support a 50-100 player server without a stutter. I think the current features should be stabilized before moving on to other things. Yes, yes the visual overhaul was nice, but whats the point if I can't properly enjoy it? Also I think a simple roadmap should be available to the community so that all these haters get a piece of mind. Also hopefully nobody gets triggered by this humble post.
     
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  3. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,366
    Sorry. Providing a response is not the same as providing an answer.

    This link: https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/1-184-0-whole-bunch-of-new-and-old-issues.7397163/#post-1287072487 shows an employee responding to an issue from a list of issues. You merely assert that responding to one issue means they are ignoring the rest. That's BS.

    And the actual text from this link: https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/u...-wheels-rotors.7400029/page-2#post-1287087719 reads as follows:

    "Hi,

    I am sorry we are not responding as much as we should (we still read most of threads on our forums). But since the last patch we were focusing mainly on the worst bugs as game crashes, blockers, etc., and you guys are reporting bugs much faster than we are able to fix them. :) So unfortunately we didn't have much of a time to be active on our forums as we would like to but since the main problems, we know about, are mostly fixed we will have more time on your reports.



    So please send us all bugs you find, it will probably take some time to get through it but we will look at every single of them eventually."

    That was Zhilla, a Keen Staff Tester. The post merely suggests that Keen is indeed guilty of concentrating on the worst offenders in an attempt to stabilize the game. Many bugs get reported, but not every bug is a game-stopper. Reported bugs need to be consistently reproduced before they can be acted upon. He did pledge, insomuch as a Tester can pledge anything, that they will look into every single report. Every Single One.

    That is definitively NOT ignoring.

    Cookies are earned, my friend.

    This is one of those questions that will probably not get an answer from staff, simply because all of their efforts for the last year or so have been dedicated to multiplayer optimization. Take the most recent Major update, for example. The visual stuff had (arguably) little to do with multiplayer. Audio, perhaps a bit more. Wheels, however were a challenge. Wheels were introduced into SE well before multiplayer. Well before planets. In fact, many questioned the introduction because there was no real need for wheeled vehicles since there was no place to drive anything. We only had asteroids and they were too small and had no gravity. The best you could do was build a station and use artificial gravity along with artificial mass to make a wheeled vehicle work. At the time there were no plans for planets with atmospheres and "real" gravity. No plans for multiplayer, either. SE was to be a single player game.

    Fans had other ideas. SE has come a long way since then, but it's still a single player game being coerced into doing multiplayer duty. As such, the game can be uncooperative at times. However multiplayer optimization is really the last remaining hurdle before full release. You can rest assured that every update has more to do with multiplayer optimization than anything else. It's still going to take some time, though ;)
     
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  4. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

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    254
    @Stardriver907 Not to tell you what to do (or not do):
    I'm just giving advice to not spend time fighting poison (I know for myself when i see it).
    That will be all.
    Peace :)
     
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  5. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    680
    Basically you are right. But leaving the stage abandoned encourages attention-seekers to take it over, while staying unchallenged, and dominate it completely, while they 'speak in the name' of the gamer community. I appreciate some of us are defending this what we love, Keen's baby SE (or ME respectively, if we had there such guy), it's a great demonstration of support for the developers as well as for the fan base not engaging in the dispute.
     
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  6. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

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    254
    Yeah i totally agree with the belief in defending what is being loved and i'm not abandoning the stage of course.
    But knowing who to take advice from and worthy of spending time with, in ratio of the time it takes on working towards goals for the sake of a socialistic/practical efficiency-value, is a practical life skill that i praise to obtain i find.
    I just figured that it's kind of useless to even argue with certain people about opinions by connecting the dots i've seen.
    Up to the point i don't even care anymore because i know enough about what's up and in conjunction with some like-wise examples in my personal life as well.
    I guess i'm basically describing an "Amir" on steroids (Jake and Amir from the old Collegehumor days).
     
  7. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,366
    I'm not even calling it an argument. It's a discussion.

    These days it's not uncommon for people to make absurd accusations and back it up by just being louder. Way too many people fall for that.

    But I'll tell you what, the truth is tangible. You can see it, feel it, measure it. The kind of crowd that flocks to a game like Space Engineers should be well acquainted with the truth. They know what it looks like and sounds like. This is a discussion forum and all points of view are welcome. The game has problems and all of the reasons have been written here over and over again. It seems fruitless to counter the bullshit but there are a lot of new people here that will make decisions based upon what they see here. SE is especially vulnerable now because to the uninitiated it appears to be a finished game and it's FAR from it. There are a lot of things to sort out and none of it is easy. Easiest thing in the world is to stand on the sidelines and claim Keen's staff is not up to snuff because all the problems haven't been solved yet. If you buy the game today and experience the problems, then come here and find out some of those problems cropped up three years ago you might be willing to join the "Keen is inept" bandwagon. Knowledge is power, friends, and the truth is that Keen made this game using their own game engine (Vrage). The only other game that uses Vrage is Medieval Engineers. When you are writing your own game using your own engine you don't necessarily do things the way other developers do them. Sometimes you can't. Keen is blazing new trails and creating new territory and what other developers do doesn't really matter. No one that bought this game back in 2013 ever dreamed they'd have what they have now, with the promise that it will get even better.

    Not right away, though. Keen's last game failed trying to meet fan-created deadlines. This time they work at their own pace and the difference is undeniably polar. Nobody knew about the last game. Everyone knows about this one.

    I'm an old man and one of the things I've learned is that you can lose the things you love in a heartbeat through silence, and especially by not calling bullshit when you see it. If you don't call it, it just keeps piling up until everything is ruined.

    When someone makes an accusation, demand verifiable evidence. If all you get in return is rhetoric then you know you're dealing with bullshit. The only way to defend bullshit is with even more bullshit. Eventually, in their attempts to get you to ignore the truth and accept their bullshit, they'll step over the line. When they do, they're done.

    Keen's staff can't do it. It just wouldn't look right. They have to be nice to everyone. We, on the other hand, have as much right to call bullshit as the the other person's right to post bullshit. It's that simple.









    That being said, I prefer to discuss the current Update in the Change Log. That's what it's for.
     
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  8. drackbolt Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    21
    Pretty optimistic at this point assuming there is in fact a roadmap...
    --- Automerge ---
    Gonna have to disagree here on several points.

    First of all the guy can express his disappointment all he likes if he purchased the game. I've done the same and have encouraged many others to buy it as well in the past. I'm not sorry I did, because we've all had a lot of great times playing it back then. But, I am also very sad and disappointed at what this game could have been, and the fact that it hasn't been playable for a very long time.

    I started playing this game 4 years ago. A couple years ago it was actually very playable in multiplayer and had almost all the essential features, some occasional bugs but nothing like you see now. Then their leadership took a back seat for other projects, and they had the gall to declare the game was in "beta". "Beta" means feature-complete, but they kept adding new features, and even more bugs. Furthermore being in early access does not mean that paying players are your QA department. It is completely obvious that they do not test their releases. They expect us to do it for them. That isn't a complete development cycle and it only breeds discontent in the player base, who are here to have fun, not to report bugs. People like us are actually paying to do their UAT. That should bother you.

    New players may really enjoy what's going on here and have the patience to wait longer, and I'm happy for them if that's the case. But for people like me, SE is like an old flame from the past... All the exciting potential in the world, but it's a dream you can't go back to. I revisit it once in a while and just end up thoroughly disappointed when this or that explodes, or conveyors don't work, or players get lag-fragged, or you lose hours of effort for any one of the thousand other random reasons. It's gotten so far behind the times now that I don't honestly think the speed and efficiency of the project will catch up, and games like Dual Universe, Empyrion, Stationeers, and many others around the corner will just eclipse it.

    And I hate all of that! Because I really did love this game.
     
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  9. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    956
    Lol I wish (Unless you are talking about disabling post-processing, which I don't consider as a solution as the game looks worse without it)
    [​IMG]
    That ship turned into the sun lol. That seems very much excessive to me.
     
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  10. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    Calling me poison, because I dare to be dissatisfied with the state of a game I paid money for in good faith, expecting ( naively ) that it won't take half a decade or more to complete and be playable without encountering issues constantly due to a woefully ( oh no, I used a big word again... ) undersized and undirected development team; we can all see who the poison is on this forum, and it ain't me.

    Go ask all the big-name players on youtube how they feel- go on. I'll save you the effort; they feel just as strongly as I & all the other players do whom have gotten tired of one thing being fixed and 3 things breaking, and that's putting it mildly. I don't need to provide any more evidence of how hopeless the state of bug fixing has become and how old issues are neglected; if you choose to lie to yourselves and pretend that the painfully obvious problems will get resolved in any kind of timely manner, then that's up to you. I'd love to see you go toe to toe with Shack, W4sted, Tex, Sage and the rest, see you scurry away or try to insist everything they say based on thousands of hours of experience is either a lie, or just a case of 'haters gonna hate'. Go ahead and ask all the modders who have long-since thrown in the towel how happy they are about the direction development has taken too.

    I haven't stuck at it for 4+ years because I hate the game, something that's obviously gone over some peoples thick heads.

    As for the little CJ club- funny how they all turn up and like eachother's posts every time they feel the need to pretend everything is fine and dandy and we, as Drackbolt so perfectly sums it up, have to do the QA for KSH because they are incapable of doing it properly themselves, for whatever reason. It's like this place has turned into an echo-chamber; someone complains about the game always being broken, and those 3 or 4 'people' turn up and try to silence them by insisting that they have no valid reason to complain. Get over yourselves. As you may ( not ) have figured out by now, I don't take shit from anyone- not least of all pathetic little sycophants who think turning off post processing fixes all of the visual issues; newsflash, it doesn't- it just hides them, like putting a band-aid on a severed limb.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    680
    Nice one, Stardriver. Here I quote the most important messages, to my understanding. Fully agree with you. :)
     
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  12. FORSETI MMIII Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Will there be a update today?
     
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  13. Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,333
    I'm just wondering that myself?
     
  14. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    The ironic thing being that you guys are the ones trying to shout ME down when I call you out on your bullshit. The ironic thing being that I refuse to be silent and point out the crap we have to put up with that keeps piling up, but you guys insist I'm wrong or that the problems we point out aren't real. The ironic thing being you guys can't even see what you are doing.
     
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  15. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,366
    @Whiplash141 this is the only recent screenshot I have using the vanilla skybox and settings
    [​IMG]
    When settings defaulted to Medium the planets and moons were solid white and the yellow parts on this ship glowed like in your picture. In this picture post processing is turned off. Still too bright, in my opinion. I had removed the SJGR mod because I thought it was causing me some performance issues. Due to crashes I had to fire up an old backup world where the mod was still there. Things looked better and I prefer the skybox that comes with it so, yeah, needed the mod before the update anyway.

    Don't recall mentioning your name but...

    This isn't about us. You said something you cant prove. Don't change the subject

    Not true. Our input is not required to produce the product. We do it because we want to. Besides, I only paid them six dollars and I'm pretty sure they haven't got six dollars worth of UAT from me in four years.

    And I have over 6700 hour logged. SE is not going to float everyone's boat. It's ok to be disappointed. Not cool to fan flames with unsubstantiated rhetoric.
     
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  16. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    I was speaking about the other member of the CJ club, obviously.

    False. I provided the proof, you decided that you didn't like the proof and pretended it wasn't valid ( from your point of view ). Feelings aren't facts- I quoted the admin who openly said that they don't check all feedback reports and we should make those reports somewhere else; you then decided to quote a different dev who said something different. It's almost as though the dev team has different ideas about how to report bugs, thus causing some reports to be ignored/ over looked and others to be prioritized depending upon where they are posted. Facts are facts- whether you like them or not is irrelevant.

    [QUOTE
    Not true. Our input is not required to produce the product. We do it because we want to.[/quote]

    Bwuhahahahaha, good one. Our input is clearly required otherwise the game would have dissolved into a bubbling mess of bugs and broken features a long time ago- hence why there is a thread specifically asking for OUR HELP in the fight against Clang. Your lies are as plain as day- either that, or you pay zero attention to... anything, hence you don't even realise you're making completely false statements.

    That's a good one- again, you accuse people of lying about the state of the game, even after they provide irrefutable evidence that you can see with your own two eyes. You are the one spouting false statements with no evidence to back them up, you are the one that thinks it's your job to tell people they should stop having opinions unless they are positive. The moment anyone turns up and complains about something, you guys pounce on them. As per the rules of the forum:

    8. Respect each others opinion. Don’t try and force your own opinion onto someone or deride what other members believe about the game.


    Whenever I make a statement about something being broken, I will happily back it up with proof, as I've always done. At this point however I can't help but get angry when little jerkoffs tell me I'm not allowed to make those statements, which breaks the above rule. I have my opinion, I am entitled to it- don't tell people they are wrong. When people make statements about something which is factually incorrect ( ergo, landing gears are broken = nope, you just don't understand the controls, for example ), feel free to correct them then, and only then. Otherwise, hush.
     
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  17. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    956
    :p
    The real "fix" would be proper post-processing customization imo
     
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  18. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
  19. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    *Donald Trump voice*: WRONG. About this:

    If you read things through things fully, I quoted him and asked him about that same statement, he did not say that "most reports go unanswered/not looked at" as you blatantly lie. He said answering every report would take a lot of the devs' time, then suggested that people use the bot on the discord to make a report.

    After my quote, he replied...

    It is possible for something to be overlooked, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE (almost literally), but that does not mean that it happens.

    Looks like YOU were actually 100% inaccurate and completely false.

    So no cookie for you, because only good boys and girls get cookies; and good boys and girls don't group people with different opinions into a "circle jerk". You want a cum cookie? You can have one of those. And perhaps people like other people's comments because, woah, get ready for this one... THEY LIKE IT. *amazing* And even more amazing, they hit disagree because they disagreed with what they said. It's crazy, I know...

    As for the main argument, if it even still is, I'll state what I've stated before, it's the new look of SE, if you don't like it, too bad so sad, maybe they'll make minor changes in your favor. Also... @suicideneil don't be such a damn poisonous hypocrite. We say it looks better, you say it's trash. We try to back up our opinion, so do you, but you throw in rule 8. We get it, you have a "mother-load" (not really) of bugfixes. I say this, if the bugs managed to stay in the game for FOUR YEARS, ITS CLEARLY NOT OF HIGH IMPORTANCE OR THERE IS A BETTER PLAN FOR IT. So it'll get fixed when it's actually an issue or whenever it does.

    I don't think anyone will thank you for making an obvious suggestion as a fix for an obvious problem.
     
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