Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Update 1.186.4 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Mar 1, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    In normal circumstances, you would be very right.
    But *this* guy, oh boy, well let's just say i'm only as rude as the other requires me to become :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. MacKnight Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    i dont whine mr medival man. i made a request. read entire msg and stop pulling implications from a black hole :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. prezu Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    update after update this game getting worse, it was good looking game and i bought that, now i see it was mistake
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    There exist mods that can help you greatly:
    - Space Just Got Real
    - Clean Camera
    - Screen Gunk Be Gone!

    Many people have been complaining about these visual "upgrades" and nothing has been set in stone yet.
    My guess is that improvements will arrive at some point around these visual... things :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  5. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    680
    Well, somebody who has a lot more stuff in his world told you the lag is surprisingly low, at least such low the game remains pretty playable - and all you got to answer is it is an "implication from a black hole"?
    Anyways, try Medieval Engineers where the 'medival men' come from, for massive building. :D
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. MacKnight Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    I cant build the Phalanx on the ground :( Phalanx is a moon sized space fort.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    Pathetic- the CJ club think their little ships count as evidence that there is nothing wrong with the game. Build a 750 million KG , 1.5km ship with over 1 million blocks; then, and only then can you come and accuse me of not having a good enough PC to run the game. As I said, it's simply the old physics engine that cannot cope, not my PC- this has actually been discussed in detail a last year, I believe Farrell covered it in one of his update parodies too. This is why similar games with more modern physics engines look so, so much better and run so much smoother.

    If all you can do is hurl petty insults about my PC ( 3770k, 16Gb, 980Ti- hardly low end now, is it? ) because I destroyed your arguments in a previous discussion, then I am not impressed in the slightest- I actually feel sad for you.

    Likewise, you need only watch a few videos by W4sted to see the issues the game has as soon as you get a few large ships more than spitting distance apart ( piloted- empty ships sitting around might as well not be there, especially is they are basically picket boat sized ). Even the heretic LSG shows the issue the game has with big ships in his review videos or battle- likewise CaptainJack's review videos and battles turn into slide shows with the large ships. All of them have top end rigs btw.

    So, are you calling them liars, or are you gonna insult their PCs too, even though they experience the exact same gimped performance when playing with just one or two large ships? In your own time, I'll be here waiting to see what convoluted excuses you can come up with...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  8. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    680
    You don't know what you are talking about. That is nothing new.
    And stop hiding behind "youtube authorities" or whom you see as such. I don't know them and they don't mean a thing to me. What the hell do we know about their "expertise" and what determines how they come to their opinion and why? I tend to my own experiences and it does not help you belittling my overcrowded world as "their little ships", I am a living stress test for the game engine and it is doing surprisingly well. I don't need your youtubers to tell me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  9. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    I understand that very extensive structures are a feat of engineering.
    So i tried to simulate a universe down to the atom and surprised to learn my workstation pc didn't quite cut it.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    • Derailing topic and flaming
    Bwhahahahaha, good one.

    Okay then, since you refuse to even listen or look at any of the well respected, highly experienced players of this game who've seen it grow from the very beginning to the present day, and refuse to offer any evidence to back up your claims of the game running perfectly & that we should just take your word for it, despite thousands of videos backing up every single word I've said, I can only assume you are trolling just to get a reaction and are thus incapable of proving a word you say. I'll be sure to ignore every word you say from now on out- where as I on the other hand will proceed to destroy you instantly; behold:




    They didn't even need to start firing in order for the game to slow to a crawl- as soon as they do, it turns into a slide show.



    Didn't even need to move around and the game is already groaning.

    Now, about those small ships with lots of blocks:



    There is a whole play list by Aaron- you can see the game turn into a slider show with the large ships. Like I said, the game doesn't like BIG ships, nothing to do with my PC, it's just a fact of the game and we have to learn to deal with it and build smaller. Why people feel the need to attack me for stating a fact is anyone's guess- maybe they are insecure and would rather people listen to/pander to their feelings instead of understanding the game, who knows....

    The funny thing is, the only people who deny SE groans under the weight of any kind of large ship are the CJ Club; any one else with experience of building large ships would know I speak the truth; not to bash the game, but to point out it will never handle large builds well, not without some god-level optimisations and a newer physics engine ( Havok is about 10 years old... I'll let you think about that ).

    Side note- obviously there are limits in any game to how large you can build, but that fact a single large ship in an open-world sandbox game is enough to bring it to it's knees should be alarming people, not causing them to leap up and down, froth foaming from their mouths and hurling insults around at anyone who dares point out the flaws in the game, its engine and the way it is being developed, and the lack of communication.

    Case in point ( I'm not done destroying you yet )- take a look at this 4 YEAR OLD ship on the workshop:

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=258917525

    See how good the lighting looks inside the ship, and outside for that matter- how it doesn't look like plastic, how subtle the accent lighting and shadows are? now look at the oily, glare-ridden mess we have, and the lights that flicker and won't stay illuminated because the devs broke the lighting system a couple years ago. Don't tell me I'm talking nonsense, or spouting 'chest thumping rhetoric' when I can back up every word I say, and you guys have done nothing to prove your points other than hurl insults and shout louder. Doesn't work, just makes people realise who not to listen to and ignore.
    --- Automerge ---
    You know, if all you can do is post demeaning remarks and childish quips that do nothing to address the issue of the game being gimped by it's own physics engine, just keep quiet, for your own sake- the only people that are amused by you is you, and your tiny little gang ( who I'm sure will be along to give likes and dislikes to the appropriate posts shortly.... oh, there we go, right on cue... ).
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. CinnabarDragoon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    5
    I find it interesting how the devs stopped commenting in the forums.... maybe because its too toxic.... :baby:
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Late Late x 1
  12. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    From the pictures you've shown previously, I'd say your hardware is probably approaching its absolute limits, and that's why you crash :woot:

    Idk what you call mid or high end but this is 2018, your computer is bad. It could definitely be worse, but that is indeed low end.

    As for those youtubers: LastStandGamers has a crap computer, according to the "about" page. I see no other data about what hardware anyone else is using but if LastStandGamers is the ballpark, that's FAR from top-end.

    Two of those videos are over 2 years old, and are not representative of the game in it's current state.

    The game doesn't like big ships, hence why there is a block limit, fortunately you can opt to go beyond the block limit, though performance may be heavily affected. To quote the game:
    "Block limits are set to ensure good performance.
    Please disable this option only for experimental purposes."
    Any time you click to disable block limits, that message comes up.
    I think your biggest problem is expecting things that you shouldn't be expecting. Don't expect amazing performance with massive ships, only the highest end of hardware can really handle it (which you are far from).

    The CJ club is aware of the performance hit from big ships, we know it exists, it hits everyone differently, please quote the person that said: "There are no performance issues" whilst playing a world that clearly has said issues.

    The fact that a single large ship in an open-world sandbox game... wait... nope... Massive ships, in populated space, sometimes on a server (so throw in all the MP issues), on poor hardware, while recording... if there weren't performance issues, I'd be spamming the HELL out of that person asking what specs they're running and preparing my mind for a spending spree.

    The Hephaestus looks damn good, though in some pictures the orange lights have like a rust effect almost on nearby blocks, which is kinda weird and I haven't decided yet if I like it. But I like the texture style from way back when.

    Also, @suicideneil you're literally the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen.
    First says: "Why people feel the need to attack me for stating a fact is anyone's guess" (funny coming from the one who said: "you need to verbally abuse them in order to get some kind of action/reaction from the devs")
    and later: "causing them to leap up and down, froth foaming from their mouths and hurling insults around"
    also: "if all you can do is post demeaning remarks and childish quips that do nothing to address the issue"

    but you also say: "and you guys have done nothing to prove your points other than hurl insults and shout louder"
    and: "CJ Club" repeatedly (cute name actually, I think I'll stick with it) and: "tiny little gang ( who I'm sure will be along to give likes and dislikes to the appropriate posts shortly.... oh, there we go, right on cue...)" (by the way, people tend to like/agree things they like/agree with, I think a post is funny, so I click funny, I agree with what someone said, so I click agree, that's just how societies in general work)
    and: "I'm not done destroying you yet"
    and: "- maybe they are insecure"

    You're not stupid, you make good use of logical fallacies in half of what you say, you KNOW HOW to formulate an argument, and you also know what kills one. But you're dumb, because all you preach is "do as I say, not as I do" and there are very few cases where that is of any use. Maybe you should take your own advice and make an argument that is not dependent on rhetoric, falsifications, and insults. Then maybe we wouldn't laugh at everything you say.
    --- Automerge ---
    Also, I hope something pretty big is coming, cause... that's a tiny change log. Here's to my hopefulness.;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,366
    Approaching? I play on a Dell Optiplex 990 workstation. Just having SE on the drive pushes that computer's limits :D. About as far from a gaming rig as a PC can get. Long story short, SE has always struggled to run on my rig. However, what used to drag it to a halt in 2014 doesn't appear to bother it now. I used to have to split my largest ship in two and work on the halves in separate worlds in the hope that some day both halves could exist in the same world again. Now I can have several instances of the same ship in the same world with planets and cargo ships and whatever else and at worse I get .4 sim speed. All with no changes to my hardware. As far as crashing and stuff like that the game is as bad as it ever was, but that's really on the count of I keep building bigger and adding mods and scripts. If I did only what I could do back in 2014 yeah all I'd have to complain about is what the vanilla models look like and how much glare there is.

    No, game doesn't run perfect for me. Cause I won't let it alone ;)
    [​IMG]

    All that business about the physics engine (Havok) got hashed out years ago. They started with it and now they just have to go through with it. Remember, they began making a simple single player game. Starting over with a new engine so shortly after initial release just because the focus changed to multiplayer would probably have hurt their rep more than helped it. Now it's way too late.

    I'm not aware of any cheap game that gets it all right. When I find I can't live with SE's limitations I'll stop playing. Not going to burst a vein over it.
    --- Automerge ---
    Well, that code obviously wasn't there before. I wonder what they're up to?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    We all know the devs work hard each week, especially when the list is that short (sounds sarcastic but i'm being serious *seriousface*)

    Anyway i'm all lols for the CJ Club, and i got a very cute little present in my inbox earlier this day... but unfortunately had to report it.
    Which was the moment that made me to conclude to the following plot-twist:
    The very sender was the human manifestation of Clang himself... tum-dum-duuuuum.
    He even includes the feature of reappearing once eliminated to one form or another.
    But in the end we will all come to love the chaotic and self contradicting reasoning he laid upon the environmental elements, because we know fully well that all errors and lies will eventually be filtered out by simply stepping back and evaluate the situation to finally see the comedy of it (but it still has to go though).
    It takes more than logic reasoning and the ability of constructing arguments and what not... if somewhere the character itself is flawed, things can escalate quickly.
    Clang, lies, cake... lies+cake, at the end of the day, they will always find their way to the surface. Except Clang, he's all over the damn place.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    680
    This citation I even did not mention yet but it stayed in the back of my memory. All the time he fantasizes about having destroyed his dispute opponents here while everyone feels not even scratched by him, but keeps on scratching their heads while wondering what's wrong with this guy and what he is actually after other than drama.
    Also, he did not understand yet my machine is basically older than his and still I have the nerve of not agreeing with him that "the game is dead", "problems never get fixed" or "big ships bring the game to an halt" "etc etc, based on my own experience, and no youtube presenters I never heard of, nor need to consult.
    --- Automerge ---
    Appendix:
    Now I am wondering why you, DigitalStone, got the 'present' (you showed to me) and not me or Stardriver. I am utterly jealous. :woot:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    Don't wonder about it :) He just picked one. Once i knew what i was dealing with, his opinions mean very little to me (Rick Sanchez ftw:woot:).

    If you're interested, i'll place the URL here just for a good jape and showing of my... "multi-tasking skills" (will become apparent when you see it).
    It had me laughing for a good minute and shouldn't actually keep that from anyone :D

    --EDIT--
    Stardriver907, on the other... hand *ughm*... you really should be a better teamplayer :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,366
    You guys just got here. I've been at this for four years. Doesn't that make me team Captain :eek:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. DigitalStone Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    254
    I agree, but i was referring to the image lol
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. FireOfVoid Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    I'VE REPORTED IT LIKE 30 TIMES DUDE. Yes, it's been reported. Yes it's an actual bug and not our character just "Tilted" for whatever reason. Especially since I wasnt using the jetpack and absolutely the ground was perfectly leveled.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Dabombinable Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    24

    It helps that Keen has updated SE in the past so that it works well across multiple cores/threads (it ran perfectly on my 2007/2008 Xeon X5450), and that it is designed to pretty much work on anything down to and including potato level GPU (eg. My i7's HD4600).
     
    • Late Late x 1
  21. Julian Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    16
    Miss one block:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    You know, I've pretty much ceased commenting in these forums (precisely for the reasons I'm about to list), but today, I'll make an exception; the community, as an almost exclusive whole, has become about as toxic as a vat of arsenic. All I see these days are people sniping at each other, acting like a bunch of flipping children. Heck, that's an insult to children, because I'm pretty sure the children would be conducting themselves infinitely better than you lot. Grow up, put it back in your pants, and act like civilized gamers for a change, would you? I'm not leveling this at any one person in particular (you know you are), but seriously! This forum has turned into a whizzing match, a platform to bash KEEN, and just in general, take cheap shots at each other. It was created to be a place to discuss the latest updates, give feedback on them, and you've all turned it into a textual war zone. If anyone is killing the game, it's you all; making the community one that no new players would ever want to join. I know for spit sure that if I was a new player to SE and I saw THIS, I'd turn around and request a refund on Steam. Grow UP. Rant over.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    312
    Your forum activity page says otherwise.

    Anyhow, what is your opinion on the perception that Keen is ignoring bug reports which is what is going on here?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    I think you're confusing the entire forum site with the context at hand. I figured it was implied well enough that I meant the Changelogs, but I guess I was wrong.

    As to the inquired about opinion,
    Have you seen the number of pages in the Bug Reports forum hub? There's a huge backlog for them to slog through. Just because they're not getting to each and every one of them as quickly as everyone seems to think they should, that doesn't mean they're "ignoring bug reports".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. Dan2D3D Moderator

    Messages:
    961
    Hi Guys!

    I'm receiving alerts here, again

    No name calling guys, please go read the forum rule #8

    Respect other members opinion and please take advantage of the Report button or simply ignore the offensive post(s), thread, or review.
     
  26. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    Of course you disagree, Neil; anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you is wrong.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  27. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    We've already been over this- a senior developer himself said they pretty much ignore many reports here because they don't have time, and they pay more attention to reports on their Discord channel. That's why I disagree with your statement which is factually inaccurate. That said, a junior developer had a different opinion about how & why they do/don't reply or react to bug reports, so their are conflicting messages from the dev team- fact.

    https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/u...-wheels-rotors.7400029/page-2#post-1287087719

    I appreciate royal88 has a different opinion on the subject, but the fact the dev said there is a possibility that reports are overlooked, and there are thousands of reports, it goes without saying that many most likely are- implying there is a 'plan' to magically deal with dozens of 5 year old minor issues after the major issues have been dealt with is rather... odd. Quick fixes should be just be that, leaving plenty of time to chip away at bigger background issues. But that's just, like my opinion, man.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  28. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    The fact that the developer suggested it, then when asked about it cleared up that it was NOT the case -fact. And I have not seen any other developer comments on the matter. Maybe you can inquire for a working position as "bug report responder" if you feel they really need acknowledgement.


    Update 1.186.2 - Scripting/Modding API for Wheels, Rotors
     
    • Late Late x 1
  29. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    And yet, we're given zero indication that our reports are even seen- that's something many people have said they'd like, just an acknowledgement that their report was at least looked at, even if it isn't acted upon ( duplicate, not enough info, not actually a bug etc etc ). Maybe you can inquire for a working position as chief comment replier-to in-spite of the facts speaking for themselves person, eh?

    If the game is nearing its final phases of development where a big effort to optimise it is being made and sort out multi-player and such, surely tiny, simple issues would or should have been acknowledged by now, if not fixed? Or added to a visible 'to-do' list? Something? Anything to show they know about it? See: lack of transparency & communication.
     
  30. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    Okay, let's just say KEEN gets someone to sit there and comment:
    "Hello. Thank you for your bug report, it has been brought to our attention and added to our list of things to fix."
    They won't be able to give any kind of detail as to when a fix could come other than: eventually, thus it's pointless to say anything. I don't know why you have these seemingly personal gripes with the way KEEN operates and I don't know why you so badly need someone to say: we see it. But if it makes your world more comfortable, it seems @Zhiila at least is responding to many reports on the forum (we appreciate you).

    I'll bring up a point I've previously made which is: many bug reports (from going through some in that section right now I'd say about half) give little to no usable information or may be a duplicate. I'd highly recommend to anyone to use the discord reporter, it walks you through it and you can check if anything as been done with it or if someone else has already filed the bug your seeing.
    For example, this one has already been fixed.

    On the discord help page just do '!bugreport sheet' to see the extensive list of bugs.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.