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Important Update 1.187 - Major Overhaul of Multiplayer

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jul 19, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    810
    That is what I did as one of my attempts. After bringing over items from a 1.186 save the new 1.187 world became unloadable, too.
    --- Automerge ---
    Almost... think something in the 110+ range...
    Will send something in under the "request help" tab. Up to now followed the hints on the 'troubleshooting' page there with no success.
     
  2. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

    Messages:
    206
    Oh god, mods are always pain in the ass.

    Most funny cases are when someone cries that they have problem with game. You ask them, as a first thing, if they use some mods to which they reply that they don't. You ask them for save. You load it and see 5 mods in that world. :D
    More serious are when there are dozens of angry people complaining that we can't do anything right that our update broke everything as it is constantly crashing now, when you look into it, you find out that their worlds contained between 3 and 200 mods. And in all of it you find out, that the mod is crashing the game. By further looking into it you find out, that the mod has incorrect definition (just hypothetical case where Howlitzer ammo magazine is called "M777_cartidge" but assembler blueprint creates non-existent "M777" magazine, because author forgot to add "_cartridge" to a name).
    The most annoying ones are where you have to join/load games of 150+ mods, not only it is slow, it in 90% cases ends up being caused by one mod not being up to date. :D
    --- Automerge ---
    Or you could also send it to me and I will into it if I have some free time.[1]



    [1] This is only one time offer, in no way I am asking for barrage of issues from all who have some problem with anything. :D Also this is not a substitute for creating a ticket on feedback site as I may not have a time to look into it. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    810
    I know the more mods we have, the more trouble can show up. But that is valid all the time, and I still ran pretty well with my 110+ before latest update. Sim speed went to 'slow motion' mode long time ago with mods and a world with many planets and ships (even autopiloted in transit), but I am used to it and I don't make a fuss about it. I know KEEN isn't responsible for mod related problems. You may have noticed I am in the "fanboy" faction here. ;)
    So if we can detect which mod is guilty for not advancing a save into 1.187, I will have to inform the author and kick the mod out meantime, until it is fixed. Hope it is not one of the more important ones like the modular elevator... or conveyor pipes deep in the ships...
    So other subscribers of that mod also find profit from this investigation.
    Speaking about the hardware I lost, it's my own fault. I don't want to make it look like SE is blowing up mainboards and drives. So much power even Clang does not execute. It's just so people like me get stubborn and ambitious and... sometimes solve the problem, sometimes blow up things in the progress... one short circuit is enough for that.
    Well, don't know if my log file was showing up properly on the support site, I will also send to your pm here. Thanks, Petr + team.
     
  4. Smokki Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    77
    I fail to see how this is in any way better, what was wrong with wheels pre-MP update? The wheel update allowed to build realistic sized rovers which behaved realisticly in realistic speeds without scripts. What scripts are you using for your vehicles btw, those I have tried just practically disable steering outside of standing still.
     
  5. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    337
    I know how to create own procedures and automations thanks to best script on the SE world which is Easy Automation Script. If you know how to maintain dynamic values each change works for wheel benefits, if not, by default or solid values not so much.

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=694296356

    Script needs familiarization and basic programming skill, it isn't add hock type of script, but it's worth it.

    Here's example of car that can't be flipped over planet syrface without your effort to do so. It's based on 3x3 wheels as close to each other, as narrow as possible. Thanks to this script and control module it can do more than just look like Defender, it has cruise control, dynamic suspension, 3 stage headlight, automatic brake light and turn signal, automatic handbrake and even automatic LCDs without most popular Automatic LCD script. One script, limitless possibilities with a little effort and imagination ;-).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  6. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,134
    Modders have a... different perspective. They say SE is the pain in the ass :D

    My idea of a "fresh canvas" has at least 195 mods. Over the years it hasn't been the same 195 because as old mods become outdated and cool new mods come out I seem to always end up loading at least 195 mods.

    If you have just one mod loaded and your game starts acting weird, the mod should be the first suspect. More sophisticated mods don't always cause trouble right away so don't think just because you have used a mod for a while that it can't be the cause. Now that Keen is no longer breaking mods on a weekly basis, the weeding out process has begun in earnest. A lot of mods are just poorly written. A lot of old but well-written mods just don't work any more. It'll take some time, but it's getting harder to blame the game these days.

    Don't know if mods will ever stop being a pain in the ass, though ;)
     
  7. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

    Messages:
    206
    The problem with mods is also the fact, that they are overwriting each other and data of game itself. There were incidents of people complaining that we said in update that we fixed something and it is still broken. Turns out that mods contained old block definitions and person had no idea affected blocks were modded. Many people complained we completely destroyed look of SE in visual tweaks... turns out they had Space just got real mod that extremely modified look of game in not-that-nice way.
    Also backward compatibility makes so much mess as it is dangerous to remove or modify any method in some arts of code, so code bloats more and more.

    Also imagine when you receive ticket with world and problem is that something bad happens in the game. You start the game and see, that there are about 200 mods, it takes 4GB only because of mods and loads 10 minutes... Cherry on top is when the problem happens only once per load and to repeat it you have to go through it all again.

    Funny is when there are crash logs with comments "I have done nothing wrong and game keeps crashing! It worked yesterday!" And you find out one of the mods have missing/incorrect definition that crashes the game on load. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    460
    I cannot believe you guys support mods like this for exactly these reasons. I every time I see bug tickets on the support forums for things like "my modded piston that acts as landing gear clangs", or "x block misbehaves at 500+m/s", and you guys flag it as WIP, my jaw drops. I mean, I think it's cool but it must be frustrating to have to deal with 4+ years old backwards compatibility so that some guys potato still works nowadays.

    You guys say 'subject to change' for everything but this. Why? Throw out the old garbage if it means solving many problems and/or making your job easier. Force mods to have a version compatibility check (even if this means the mod author just has to edit the version# in the file). Break 4 year old blueprints that are almost assuredly not used anymore. The only ones that will care aren't concerned with the greater good anyways.

    I have a vanilla blueprint that I just made in 1.187.1 that instantly perma-freezes DSs every time I trigger a timer block, and it won't get looked at for days/weeks/months because you guys are trying to figure out why a 4Gb, 500 mod world has an explosive connector? Bug Reports need an 'Out of Scope' flag imo.
     
  9. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

    Messages:
    206
    Lol, since visual tweaks where I modified particle creation function.... there was one function before... now we have 5 of them
     
  10. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    810
    Mods may cause problems here and there, but they are perfect for fleshing out the potential SE and ME have. Something which causes the game not to load a save can be annoying, but also finds a remedy once the pro's have a look at it. I have more trouble with mods disappearing from shop overnight and leaving an ongoing project suddenly strapped and naked (like when the super heavy armor was gone).
    In short; I would not like to give up on mods. The perfect marriage on this planet (or space?) is a KEEN sandbox game united with an inspired modding community. :D Hey, let's make a competition: "Who has the most mods active and still a running game?" - that's also a quality statement for the whole thing, if you ask me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,134
    So, you have been reading my crash logs, eh? :D

    There was a time (and this can be verified by @Commander Rotal), when it took my world 45 minutes to load. So these days I consider the average fifteen minute load "fast". During the entirety of 1.186 I could play for hours one day and not be able to get the game to run the next. I made a blueprint of the world and linked it if I ever got a chance to send a crash report, which was not possible for every crash, in the hopes that they might be able to explain the behavior. I did hope that they would not have to load the game more than once because who has time to wait fifteen minutes only to have the game crash again within another minute. I don't know, maybe they looked at the 4.5 G file size and just didn't bother :woot:

    Are they actually leaving code in the game so some mods will continue to function? As much as I love mods I certainly hope not. The mod in question is what needs to be fixed or replaced. No mod is worth code bloat.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,631
    @Stardriver907 They are, yes. Or make use of a "compatibility layer". Both which is a pain. Haven't you seen the modder rage when they break something?

    Sure, the game would have been a lot smaller in terms of sales but I'm almost convinced it would have been a better base game if modding hadn't been made officially supported until the actual release, so they could just do their jobs.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,134
    I'm going to have to agree, and add that perhaps online servers should have been discouraged as well. We've lost both good Modders and Servers because people got ambitious way too early.

    Hard to say how things would have turned out. Different. Maybe better. We'll never know.
     
  14. Balmung Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,947
    A bit late, but I think when the release works well we get enough new Modders or perhaps some Modders came back.

    The difficult on Problems caused by mods is also: is it really the Mod or is it the Mod API? Also in the API can be bugs that cause problems with Mods. Mod Support is really a hard thing, but in early access pure horror.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.