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Important Update 1.190 - Customizable LCD Screens, Replay Tool, and Decorative Pack

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Apr 8, 2019.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. bigjase48 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    Is there a way to increase the render distance for the images displayed on LCD screens? Currently sitting at 200m away from a screen, they turn black and only show the LCD block (as if it was turned off) on the wall. This happened since they've updated the game with the new LCD options.
     
  2. MjasNick Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    20
    imagine the situation, you came to the restaurant, which is known that there created a culinary masterpiece and you slip sandwiches cheap because the chef inspiration is over, what will be your opinion about this restaurant?
     
  3. bleakhead Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Why can sandwiches not be a masterpiece? It depends more on the price and if I can make it on my own. Sure I do not want to pay the full masterpiece price for a simple sandwich, but you know what? I did not have to. I can try to make it on my own or go to the next restaurant. No one said YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS....
    many members of the community behave like they have to pay for it or they will not realy able to play... Nonsense for me. Sorry.. there are many other games with dlc, even ARK which costs after release 90$ is not that hated for the DLC but the little game Space Engineers, which even can create the same amount of joy as ARK?

    I can understand, if people do not like the "pay to use" logic but WTF is wrong with the players.... you can not drive a car legaly, if you (or someone) not pay for it.
    You own something, if you buy it. If you wont buy it and use it, then its more about the currage of keen. And HELL.. first someone cries "no content in SE, please bring content" then keen bring (decorative) content, boy cry again "wwahh I have to pay for your hard work..." even if there is an alternative in the workshop.

    Can DLC owners and non owners be friends again? thanks...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. Meteo Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    38
    La actualización está muy bien, la colección de nuevos cosméticos es una razón para dejar a los ingenieros espaciales, hay muchas más formas de obtener apoyo económico sin eliminar algo que la comunidad espera. Y lo más importante es que los vehículos terrestres continúan teniendo un comportamiento completamente ilógico, donde, por ejemplo, mis vehículos continúan hundiendo sus ruedas en el terreno de los planetas, moviéndose agresivamente cada vez que pago o bloqueo cualquier bloque ... y cada acción cometida. Con estos vehículos terrestres los extremos terminan en el mismo vehículo explotando de forma absurda y perdiendo todo el trabajo realizado en ellos. Los contenedores grandes son incompatibles con dichos vehículos, las horas de creación refinada de componentes y dichos contenedores pierden toda su carga con el comportamiento absurdo de las ruedas y el funcionamiento de cualquier construcción con ellos en los planetas. Adiós a las horas de minería, refinación y creación de componentes. Y esta es solo una de las muchas cosas que el juego aún no soluciona. Muy bien entusiasta continúa en este camino, cobra contenido y aún no repara lo que se rompe año tras año.
    Siento mi inglés. Utilizo el traductor de google.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. Tippin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    Not sure I fully understand your comment.

    I grew up in the age of buying a game and it was done, although you only paid one price, on many occasions you wouldn’t even get a patch let alone additional content. Keen as you can see are still doing free updates to the game, now to support them so they can continue I am willing to pay what is essentially a cup of coffee for their work. I get some nice blocks for the price.

    I have a few games like this and some I wouldn’t pay for the DLC they are not enjoyable enough, Space Engineers has entertained me for many hours so an extra £3 is fine by me.

    The alternative is, they say we’re done enjoy your game it will never cost you another penny and leave it where it is. I played a game 18 years ago I would of given any amount of money for more content but it was abandoned shortly after release. It had many bugs which we just had to live with but it was a finished game, one price.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Aramid Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    Except we're talking about a game. You can't kill someone legally IRL. But you can do that in a lot of games.
    In this situation, we're talking about a game where the main activity (by default) is to design ships and base and send them to others via blueprint or world save for them to use it.
    You want a perfect exemple where this "pay to use" is a problem ? Scenarios.
    If a scenario on the workshop put objects in an armory or a locker, you can't access them and you literally invented Premium Workshop Scenario. Then you can say "The maker just need to not put item in the armory or lockers !", but then, why should he even use the new block ?

    Well, Ark itself is hated by a lot of people, and some reasons are common between the two games, but I see more Ark Hater than SE Hater. Then, why the little ark is so hated ? We can reverse the argument easily. But still, Ark and its DLC are, a lot of time, either loved or hated.
    And honestly, if there is something we can't take from Ark DLCs, it's their content, there is a lot. New maps, new mechanics, new mobs...

    And, you can't compare these DLC simply because the game are really different.
    Ark is not made to Build and Share. It's a PvP/PvE game.
    Space Engineers has no PvE and the PvP is... Meh. By default, it's a Build and Share game. This DLC put the Share behind a paywall.
    Example :
    "- Hey, love your miner ! Mine broke and I don't have enough ressource for a new one, can I use yours ?
    - No problem, take it ;)
    - Euh. I can't get in. I don't have the DLC..."
    Result : You're forced to either redesign your miner (because the conveyor are different) or build a new one for your friend. Or mine with your hand drill. Which is boring and time consuming.

    The problem is, if you take a look at the poll Keen did in January, (https://steamcommunity.com/games/244850/announcements/detail/1703950020794369155) the most asked content is : SURVIVAL FEATURE.
    And talking about that, what is content exactly ? If KSH release 10 new light models, is it content ? Personnaly, I don't think so. And I think the complaint you're talking about think the same.

    The problem is not the price. It's what's in the DLC and how it work. People want to INTERACT with the new blocks. Not even being able to build them for free, just interact ! And that's a consensus even Xocliw understood.

    This argument is invalid. It's not supposed to be the Workshop's job to give equivalent. If I want to play Vanilla to be sure everyone can access my build, I don't have non DLC equivalent.
    And a lot of Workshop item aren't maintained anymore because multiple modder leave, either by lack of time, or because Keen took their mods without permission and they didn't like it. (Apparently, 3 mods were borrowed in this update/dlc, but we don't have any credit.)

    An alternative would be to make block with multiple model/skin. Like the race theme in Stellaris. You can buy cities, portraits or ships models, not ship class.


    In fact, there is two problem with this update :
    1 - There is no alternative. No equivalent. It's buy or nothing. Or mods. Which are not always optimised or maintained.
    2 - It's not cosmetic only. The couch, the toilet etc... Okay, it is. The armory, locker and cockpit are not.

    For me, to know if it's really just decorative, you need to ask yourself this question :
    Can I do a Scenario with it without putting a paywall ?



    And to the artists who did theses blocks :
    Good job ! They are gorgeous ! The style is perfect for space ! Need a planetary variation now ^^.
    I hope this controversy find a good end so I can buy it.
     
  7. warpig2255 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    15

    Yes he can i tryd it with a buddy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Tippin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    I swear it’s just an excuse to have a moan. Just buy it, it’s really not a lot of money. If you can’t afford it then maybe you should be doing something other than playing games anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    347
    Add a weapons pack and believe me you will be swimming in cash or add this silly cosmetic stuff that few players truly care about...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  10. zopzodeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Any type of buildable Block is the WRONG KIND of DLC .... campaigns, encounters , skins is the way to go , blocks will ALWAYS be problematic and unfair.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
  11. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    A side step from all of the DLC debate right now.

    Keen, you missed two blocks with the awesome LCD changes. I would love to throw the energy & hydrogen display on them (among other things), but right now we cannot.

    Survival kit
    [​IMG]

    Medbay:
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: On a side note, using the PB LCD surface as a log output is very nice:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  12. opel8 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    Hi guys, after this update i have bugged tree branch floating in my hangar in never surrender hosted on my PC. Im very sad of this, had a big plans with my hangar :(
     
  13. Merandix Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    519
    Hey guys, just wanted to tell you good job on update and DLC on principle...

    ...but Keen, I have to agree that the industrial cockpit violates the principles you laid out for yourselves.

    - it splits the community between people who can and can't interact with ships featuring this cockpit. This means if you own the DLC, you can build ships that are less susceptible to theft because not every player can use that ship. Essentially, the industrial cockpit is slightly safer than the other cockpits.
    - it isn't purely decorative. It's a fine rover cockpit with great visibility, something that is still lacking from the base game.

    Also, I'm curious. Players who do not own the DLC can still interact with DLC content with their grinder and get the components and content that way? If not, that should be the case.

    A solution? Move the cockpit from the DLC to the base game. And add an additional purely decorative block or two on the complexity level of the holotable block to the DLC as compensation for the people who DID buy the DLC. Stick to purely decorative blocks, skins and alternate models for existing blocks, but nothing that gives a functional edge to base blocks.

    P.S. My life currently holds little time and opportunity to play SE and ME. But will definitely buy when I do get time to play again. Despite this small flaw of principle.

    P.P.S. I'm not opposed to cockpits as DLC per say, but there should always be an equal use and equal visibility version in the base game, and everyone should be able to interact with any cockpits in the DLC since cockpits are unavoidable. Not one block should make a creation harder to steal or interact with when DLC is involved.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    336
    My question as almost always is... What is the size of this update and DLC? Hope this is not going to consume my all abroad mobile internet limit.
     
  15. AntiMatter001 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    has anyone considered the fact that now content currators and modders will more than likely release this free of charge as a "f you too" to keen but also will there be a sepereate topic in a workshop search engine for the copit?

    think about it: you download all these cool ships then relise that 50% of them have that DLC cockpit which have programmable blocks or scripts in them to make the ship run and now you have to toil away to make it work.... or the publisher of the ship has to make two versions.

    imho you're making alot of bad choices keen. what's nxt? 4 dollars for food and survival? hey here's a good idea, food and survival for 4 dollars! or even better, start removing functions and blocks without telling the community and putting price tags on them.

    for example remove the programmable block, republish the game with the programmable blocks and timer blocks at 15 dollars and label it the "educational" eddition DLC! there ya go just be sure to credit me.

    or you know don't, because you haven't credited the last 5 or 6 modders you stole ideas off of.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,706
    Even if modders did release it you would then have to use the modded version so it would still be a divided set of players, the ID's of the models would have to be different for it to exist with the DLC version. @AntiMatter001
     
  17. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,740

    If you release a mod version of the DLC, it's only available as a mod. For single-player, not an issue... especially if you're not bringing in workshop ships or don't mind replacing the DLC cockpit with the mod one.

    On a server, different situation. The DLC will work across all servers. The mod version will only work on servers where that mod is installed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. bleakhead Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Are we talking about copy the deco blocks and put it in a new free mod?
    If yes, do not forget, that the modding is tolerated but is not under any license. So if a modder creates a mod, which is obviously a copy of the original cockpit, then keen can easily remove this because of some copyrights (I think there is a mark in the modding alignments)

    But I do not know what's wrong on dlc? I mean space engineers is from 23.09.13 in development. I can not remember that it costs more than 25$.
    Till now space engineers sold around 1mio times (got it from the official website steamspy said 5mio)

    So the devs are paid via money, the office costs money, the servers too. And of course the dev tools too.
    So marrek said, they are not low on money but they have more playroom with each dollars the community pays extra as support.
    So more supported money, more playroom and content for SE. Till many players want content, they now can get it. They can be happy, that keen sell it for a such low price... ungrateful behaviour... but ok.

    Marrek also mentioned, that this money will float in some atm secret projects. And this could be the development of the engine or maybe Space engineers 2 (as mentioned in the last survey of keen) or it will float into medieval engineers.

    The big problem is, to say that the dlcs are scam, is totally the wrong way. Keep in mind someone worked hardly on it and many of this community dishonoured it with just one sentence "keen scams us, because we can view it, but not use it..."

    Holy shit... imagine, we can use the blocks WHY THE FU should i buy the dlc? The dlc is a win win Situation... the players get some content and keen a little amount of money...

    If you not like the dlc, dont buy it. Go to the Workshop and be happy. Many players love the dlc and want more... according that the dlc is on top 20 on latest steam sells, it is tolerated by many players...

    Premium content is extra stuff... if you want it, buy it. Finito.

    But think of one thing, the big amount of salt and so less thanks regarding THE FREE replay tool. This should be premium stuff but nope, simple deco blocks are much more important to be upset...

    Again, dlc players and non dlc players, play together and be friends, THIS is much more important for keen, and not the dlc money...
     
  19. vadersson Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Oh boy, I am wading in...

    So last night I bough the DLC. I must admit that I am generally against DLC on principle, being a bit of an old school gamer. But in this case it is mostly cool cosmetic stuff. I do agree the cockpit was a poor choice and support the suggestion of moving it out of the DLC. But I also want to keep Keen going, and given that the last time I put any money into the game was years ago, I don't feel too bad. I will get upset if in the future other important things are in the DLC. With the planned weapon overhaul, I would hope to see those as vanilla rather than a DLC. If I have to pay for mass driver and laser blocks, I would be quite upset. Of course, they could just start making expansions, like the Combat Expansion. I would rather pay for some decorative DLC I don't need than that.

    OK, I will set back out of the swamp now. Thanks!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. sepen_ Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    Just a heads-up: Writing to a TextSurface from a Programmable Block in locally hosted Multiplayer only shows up for the local player. It throws no error, but the surface doesn't update.

    Cheers, keep up the good work!
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  21. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    336
    Just downloaded this update along with decorative DLC. I love toilet model with its vaccum pee pipe. Well done, now my engineer will be truly happy while dropping a crap :). Console with its ability to show projection is a great addition for any large ship bridge. I always wanted to support you guys, although I'm not always happy with decisions you make, in my opinion You've found good way to encourage support with gift benefits... However cockpit shouldn't be part of paid addition, toilet itself is worth 4 bucks.
     
  22. sepen_ Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    How would one go about having every other line of text in a different color?
     
  23. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    For what you see in the screenshot, I made a class to handle it all for me, albeit crude right now:
    Code:
    	class PBOutput
    	{
    		const string VER = "1.0";
    		MyGridProgram _pb;
    		IMyTextSurface _output;
    		IMyProgrammableBlock _block;
    		MySprite[] _lines;
    		int _popCount;
    		int _visibleLineCount = 20;
    
    		float _baseFontSize = 30;
    		Vector2 _nextPos;
    		float _fontScale = 0.6f;
    		float _fontSize;
    		Vector2 _startOffset;
    
    		public PBOutput(MyGridProgram pb)
    		{
    			_pb = pb;
    			_block = _pb.Me;
    
    			_output = _block.GetSurface(0);
    			_output.ContentType = ContentType.SCRIPT;
    			_output.Script = "";
    			_output.ScriptBackgroundColor = Color.Black;
    			_output.ScriptForegroundColor = Color.White;
    			_startOffset = new Vector2(10, (_output.TextureSize.Y - _output.SurfaceSize.Y) / 2);
    			_fontSize = _baseFontSize * _fontScale;
    
    			int maxLines = (int)((_output.TextureSize.Y - (_startOffset.Y * 2)) / _fontSize);
    			_lines = new MySprite[maxLines];
    
    			WriteLine($"PB output v{VER} initialized");
    		}
    
    		public void WriteLine(string msg = null)
    		{
    			WriteLine(msg, Color.White);
    		}
    
    		public void WriteError(string msg)
    		{
    			WriteLine(msg, Color.Red);
    		}
    
    		public void WriteWarning(string msg)
    		{
    			WriteLine(msg, Color.Yellow);
    		}
    
    		public void WriteLine(string msg, Color col)
    		{
    			if (_popCount == _lines.Length)
    			{
    				_popCount--;
    				Array.Copy(_lines, 1, _lines, 0, _popCount);
    			}
    
    			msg = $"{DateTime.Now.ToShortTimeString()}: {msg}";
    			_lines[_popCount] = MySprite.CreateText(msg, "Monospace", col, _fontScale, TextAlignment.LEFT);
    			_popCount++;
    
    			Refresh();
    		}
    
    	// Call this to update the surface manually.
    		public void Refresh()
    		{
    			using (MySpriteDrawFrame frame = _output.DrawFrame())
    			{
    				_nextPos = _startOffset;
    				int max =  Math.Min(_visibleLineCount, _popCount);
    
    				for (int i = 0; i < max; i++)
    				{
    					_lines[i].Position = _nextPos;
    					_nextPos.Y += _fontSize;
    					frame.Add(_lines[i]);
    				}
    			}
    		}
    	}
    To use, you instantiate PBOutput in your program constructor, then call the Write_() methods wherever you want to output a message. It will automatically get the correct IMyTextSurface on the parent PB and auto-scroll when you start adding more messages than can fit on the screen, but it can definitely be polished and cleaned up. I was just testing the new API at the time of making.

    There are so many crazy things you can do with what Keen have added. It's also possible to draw icons using:
    Code:
    var icon = MySprite.CreateSprite("textureName", pos, size);
    
    You can replace "textureName" with any valid icon or texture name. I've been using this useful list in other scripts: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/1707938616/1813170373236188177/

    Of course, you can also instantiate MySprite and set all of it's properties yourself, but the helper methods do most of the work already.

    Hopefully this helps!
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  24. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,706
    I have been around SE since almost day one.not sure what they mean by Supergridding....maybe I am just slow. Anyone want to explain it to me? :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Allammo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    336
    Long story short... It seems there was (or still is) a way to place large grid blocks onto small ones. You could do that via editing files, but someone created a mod making supergrids easy to achieve to anyone. It seems this mod isn't working correctly this days and it seems KSH gave us way to be able to use or not to use hybrid constructions. If you ask me I haven't got anything against such constructions in my SP games, but server owners might, devs gave them tool to disallow supergrids to be built or spawned on their servers.
     
  26. warpig2255 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    15
    Thats what it is. :
     
  27. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,706
    @warpig2255 basically rotor cheating (Large rotor small head as example.) Supergrid...just a term I hadnt seen....
     
  28. SileniusFF Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    108
    Supergrid is bit different than just connecting large and small grids. To simply connect two grids via rotor can be achieved using tools inside game world (by placing blocks/welding etc). Supergrid is done outside game via editing blueprint files.
    It is still possible, but now there is an option to disable/enable supergridded blueprints in world settings.
    With it some weird things can be achieved - like placing large grid blocks directly on small grids (like flight seats), blocks can occupy same space etc.
    Problem was that there was no way to block these blueprints to be pasted/built in vanilla games.

    About update.
    Armor blocks have again returned to scratched state like they were while ago. Somewhat weird to change them back since
    if i recall there were some heated discussions which lead to reducing "scratch and dirt".
    Personally i feel that currently it is a bit too much again. Visual noise makes it hard to see shapes of ships or structures.
    Anyone noticed that?
     
  29. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,706
    Blockhacking sounds a bit better than supergridding in that case. :)

    It's just my opinion, please no one get the idea I am telling ya what to do / think.
     
  30. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,987
    "Scratch and dirt" was an original element of SE's basic art style. Unlike many space games, Keen chose the "seen some hard use" look that could be associated with mining and hostile activity, as was seen in Miner Wars. Keen want's stuff in their game to look this way, and that's a hard pill for some to swallow. After all, we've never seen so much as a scratch on any Star Trek ship.

    There is a logic out there that suggests that a block you just built should look pristine. The problem with that is that it would stay pristine forever no matter what happens to it in the game. A software routine that would check the age of a block and add the scratches and dirt over time would tank performance as every block in the game would have to be checked for age and occasionally altered.

    So, you can use modded blocks that are all clean and shiny forever, or use Keen's blocks that look like they've seen some action the moment they are created. During the most recent KCN stream Marek definitively announced that there was a vision about his game that will not be altered. The art style will continue in the tradition of Miner Wars, and the technology will continue to be that which has been extrapolated from existing current technology. The scratches and dirt are what makes SE SE. Is it too much? That can only be answered by the individual. If the decision was left to us there would never be a decision. The decision that was made was that the current level of wear that appears on Keen blocks is tolerable for most people and doesn't appear to have any affect on sales.

    Having said that, there was an early modpack out there collectively known as Shadowflux that featured a "well used" look. Some people wondered what all that stuff looked like when it was "new", so the Modder recreated every single block in a "brand new" state and included them in the modpack. Players could choose between "brand new" and "used", and even mix the two. I thought that was a great idea.

    Curiously, as the original Modder has moved on, others have resurrected parts of his modpacks, but only the worn stuff. The new, pristine blocks remain unavailable. Guess that kind of shows where the demand is.
     
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