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Warning for new players.

Discussion in 'General' started by Dragonspride, Dec 28, 2016.

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  1. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    4,069
    No ice was in for ages. Crafting recipes were made simpler, Mg was made to be ammo fuel. There was no Oxygen system so Ice got disabled. The mod you mention may have infact re-enabled Ice.

    Maybe a Advanced crafting mod?
     
  2. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    I haven't used the mod for some time but I remember it was a 2 part mod. Part one was food. Ice was used to create a water part and gravel was used to make fertilizer. These were applied to a hydroponic block which created a nutrient paste and the paste went to a kitchen block which was really a reskinned assembler because you could make dinner or ship parts from both.

    Part 2 was a ship introduced with ice on it because the modder couldn't reintroduce ice on the roids for some reason. Once ice was reinstated he changed the mods so it would work with the in game ice because his ice file was different from the vanilla ice file.

    All was for naught though because your character still can't eat the food but the models were at least cool for added immersion.
     
  3. Neffarion Apprentice Engineer

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    The amount of people that think that an early access game can't have game breaking bugs or something doesn't work like they want to is way too high.
    The whole reason for the early access label is for you to know that the game isn't finished thus shit can break and you wont be happy afterwards
     
  4. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    That's easy to say, but most early access games I've played were actually quite playable. Like KSP for example.. game breaking bugs got pounced on while they chipped away at features and improvements. My expectation was certainly higher when I walked into this.

    And I don't think being overly defensive helps anything, it is what it is. I still love the game and give feedback.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Lothos Apprentice Engineer

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    It's not a case of there being bugs or not. It's the case that people that have paid money seem to think somehow they've signed a contract with a delivery due date on their expectations.
     
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  6. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    I have Two thousand hours in this game, one thousand, five hundred of those hours were spent angry with keen. one day is not going to change anything.
    --- Automerge ---
    We don't expect a delivery date, we just expect keen to fix "game breaking" server destroying, hours down the drain bugs within a reasonable amount of time. Two years is no where reasonable for said bugs to last.
    --- Automerge ---
    Exactly my point, I've given alot of feedback now im pissed because keen has let these things go unchecked for years. Some clearly ignored as one user stated up in the threads.
     
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  7. Lothos Apprentice Engineer

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    "reasonable amount of time" is vague at best. You have no clue what could be the cause of the very bugs you are bitching about. You act as if keen has the solution sitting on a shelf somewhere and has purposely been not installing it solely to piss you off. Do you simply not understand that?
     
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  8. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    "Reasonable amount of time" = not two years. Two years = Unreasonable amount of time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Some bugs stay in games for life. But that's none of my business.
     
  10. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    The scope of the game has changed over the course of development. It's a LOT bigger than the original design. Every new feature put in along the way is another complexity to worry about.

    Bugs... new bugs come up. Old bugs resurface. New bugs behave like old bugs. Human error... yes coders are human. Optimization: simplifying, organizing, throwing some things out that are deemed unnecessary but have unintended consequences. Oh, and fixing one bug might create another. I'm sure there are lots of technical names I'm treading over. I'm sure there are a lot more reasons than I've listed.

    Bugs suck. But they are the only thing consistent with programming. Wanting to play and being stopped cold by a game bug sucks. But thems the breaks with early access. I would steer clear of early access next time if these things bother you.

    Oh, and I have almost 4,200 hours of playing in. So my time encompasses any and all bugs experienced by the original poster AND THEN SOME. All in all I wouldn't relate the experience with Keen as bad. They are ALWAYS pumping out new code. Eventually, they'll get this where they want it. Just relax. Hopefully you're somewhere that just legalized a calming substance.
     
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  11. Lothos Apprentice Engineer

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    I give up then. You simply refuse to listen to logic.
     
  12. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    Oh I swore off early access a year ago.
     
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  13. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    This is an old argument. Then those with the programming and Triple-A video game release experience chime in and lay down the truth. Four years... nothing...

    I did some work with the guys from EA Sports a few times recording voice work, grunts, body movements, etc. It was a few days and that was just a handful of characters. This was just DIALOG. It takes a LONG time to build a title. SE has LOTS of moving parts. So it's going to take forever and a day.*

    * I'm not sure about needing the extra day... but I threw that in case of an obscure European holiday.
     
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  14. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    Europeans get like 10x as many holidays as us. :(
     
  15. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    I spent 30mins looking for a rogue } recently that Intellisense hadn't found but was (obviously) causing trouble at compile time.
     
  16. Malware Master Engineer

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    We be lazy, demanding, arrogant gits the lot of us... :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. RayvenQ Moderator

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    I'd just like to remind everyone.

    [​IMG]

    Some bugs get fixed
    Some bugs get fixed and then come back at a later date
    Some bugs are a complete pain in the rear to even find where/how they're happening
    Some bugs are a complete pain to fix and can require inventive workarounds or yanking out and redoing of the system
    Some bugs stay
    Some bugs come Back

    Keep in mind, aside from the initial 7 months of concept and first development, Space Engineers has been in Early Access for ITS ENTIRE LIFE. 2 years seems forever to players, but thats not actually a whole lot of time, especially given its on an inhouse engine where the only documentation that exists is that which has been written down. If you knew more on how long games took to actually come out, you'd probably be shouting less about 2 years being an unacceptable amount of time (hint: its not).

    I've worked in a position where i was working alongside pretty much every major AAA developer out there, from a developmental standpoint, Keen isn't doing too much particularly wrong or different than any other game company out there, and for the scope of this game, taking into account the inhouse engine etc etc, personally I'd expect it to be about 5-6 years of development before it reaches an actual release state. And yes, some bugs are going to persist for most of its development life.
     
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  18. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    You know ive seen that picture used as a excuse SO MANY TIMES and I still don't give any credence to that argument. 2 years of development and these world destroying bugs that have been handing around for years are still in. That is ludicrous.
     
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  19. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Ludicrous, By whose standards? Yours? Or people who actually know what they're talking about. Because, given your responses, you've made it pretty clear you don't.
     
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  20. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    It wasn't that long ago that the collective scientific community believed that the world was flat and everything was made up by Fire, Earth, Wind, and Water. Sorry I don't fall into your collective groupthink. Its kinda sad that the community does not hold devs, or the forum staff for that matter; to any standards. But better to protect the collective from the individual as it is. Echo chambers for the win! Better self censor a mod is here!
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  21. notintheface11 Trainee Engineer

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    Oh man, here we go. With this comment, you've stepped from passionate subjective disagreement into objectively falsifiable rhetoric. The scientific community as we understand it didn't exist at the time of these ideas, much less the rigorous scientific process we use today. This is a common rhetorical bullshitting technique used by people who are confronted with convincing evidence that conflicts with an opinion with which they have an emotional attachment. You can't argue with a qualified opinion while continuing to sound like you have the slightest inkling of what you're talking about, so the desperation "experts have been wrong before" card gets played.

    I understand you're upset about the state of the game. That doesn't mean you have to resort to what is essentially a conspiracy theory in order to make yourself feel better about throwing a juvenile temper tantrum on the developer's forums.
     
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  22. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    sa
    Conspiracy theory?

    [​IMG]

    These guys don't even care about their own rules. Lol. Ever wonder why everyone on "my side of the fence" don't bother posting anymore?
     
  23. notintheface11 Trainee Engineer

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    I don't understand how one of your posts getting deleted because you were being a homophobic asshat has anything to do with the fact that you dismissed an allegedly experienced programmer's opinion because you are under the wildly mistaken impression that modern scientists recently believed that the earth was flat.
     
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  24. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    I don't care if you have your own opinions. Let me quantify that. You are entitled to your opinions so am I. Except only one side has been censored all these years.

    As for homophobic accusations, I've got a "Fag pass" from Milo Yiannopulous, Gay has multiple connotations, and to ban a word because it hurts peoples' fe fees is called censorship.

    Don't like my opinions? Go ahead and ban me, prove my point! @RavenQ come on man! Do it!
     
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  25. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    This shits going straight up alt right now. Got a feeling the thread is nearing the end.
     
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  26. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

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    Yep so do I. Btw, I left the alt-right party after that horrid hail trump junk. I still agree with many of their talking points. Such as the RINOS complete failure on combatting this anti-patriotic movement by the left.
     
  27. notintheface11 Trainee Engineer

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    Hoo boy. Lol.
     
  28. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Dragonspride, you seem to be spoiling for a fight, my advice is not to, as you will not win.

    FYI I don't hesitate to call Keen out when in my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience, they're doing something wrong. The last time it majorly happened was when I publically got onto them for their handling of Medieval Engineers, which has now improved.

    As for your points:

    Mods have standards that they are expected to uphold by the developers, and we do uphold those standards. It's not the community that we answer to, nor should it be. Our standards aren't "ban people for having an opinion" I've banned and warned countless people, never once have I banned people for having an opinion, infact the closest thing to that we do warn and ban people for is HOW they express that opinion, which is what matters.

    Moderators enforce rules by both the letter and the spirit of the rules as written. Though mostly through the spirit of the rules, since we're people and we're dealing with people. Additionally, the interpretation of the spirit of the rules is an individual thing. Some moderators may go straight to warning people, others may try to discuss it first. It's a system that works, and works well. It's also only ever those who are moderated that find fault with it. Hell, I've moderated people I consider friends, the exact same way that I moderate everyone else. Even people who have later on become staff, have been moderated by me.

    You don't have a pass for anything, you either follow our rules or pay the consequences. Yes, the word has multiple connotations, some positive, some neutral, some not positive, this is where the spirit of the rules come in, Rule #5 is one that has to be interpreted on a case by case basis, and one that has to consider not only people involved, but people who may become involved. You may not have meant it in a negative way, but we have to take into account the history and the simple fact that it's been used negatively more than it is positively. It's not even really censorship, as I'm sure with the countless words in the English language, I'm sure you could have picked one that doesn't have quite so many negative connotactions and negative usage that would have expressed your opinion just as well, if not better.

    You're trying to set yourself up to be a Martyr from being banned, but the fact is, nobody cares. Learn the lesseons from your warning and private discussions with moderators, learn the lesson, improve yourself and move on, it's as simple as that. If you are unable to do that, I'll happily escort you out of the building, so to speak.
     
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  29. Lothos Apprentice Engineer

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    • Inappropriate Behavior
    here, let me help kill this thread.... Trump ( the man they kept calling Hitler ) is about the only guy in the US supporting Israel now :) Nothing like a little nazi mentioning to help kill a thread.
     
  30. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Now people are trying to get this thread closed, I'll just lock it.
     
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