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Water?

Discussion in 'General' started by Ravenal, Jan 13, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Steelpanther Apprentice Engineer

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    2 big things on technology, is having the right technology already completed or having the right skill sets. If I remember it was a goldsmith that made the printing press. Some times you need more knowledge than what your field gives you, and the time period was very much I apprentice for this profession and then do that profession all my life.

    The second is there was never an incentive to. It wasn't until capitalism came around that anyone really had a reason to do stuff like that. Why invent something when your lord would just take the idea and become rich for doing nothing at all other than taking your ideas and giving you nothing in return.
     
  2. TheBinaryWolf Trainee Engineer

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    Even if we wont have properly simulated volumetric water, water bodies and currents, we can have something similar to MC or any other game with water, so i would not throw ships-idea out of the window.

    Thing is, take MC (dreaded analogy i know), there has been a couple of mods trying to add ships(i tried most of them) and critical issue was inability of codebase or forge to create separate moving grids, not realistic water.

    Wait, separate moving grids, i heard that one before... Spaceships! Its the freaking same thing only on water with some bouyancy and more whole-body physics than per-voxel. Problem can and always will be water dynamics(inability to create submarines, water flowing through hole in body etc), which can be to a degree ignored.
    I still hope.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2015
  3. Geneticus Senior Engineer

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    You don't have to have volumetric water to simulate sailing. Even if you did, it wouldn't need to be much deeper than the keel of the ship. You could even do a small Volumetric simulation in a collision box made of tiled squares around the ship and translate collisions to that box underwater from the tile that was hit to the water in the box. So, even then, you wouldn't have to simulate a whole ocean, river, or lake.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2015
  4. Slen Trainee Engineer

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    I would be quite happy to create dams which I could use to create artificial lakes. Then, when being sieged, break the dam and flood the buggers. That coupled with trap holes would be very good. Wash them into killing pits.
     
  5. Dr. Krunch Apprentice Engineer

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    Quite probably the best defense in both ME and Dwarf Fortress.

    Enclosed entry hallway + floodgates + river + drowning chambers = dead goblins + fish.
     
  6. Steelpanther Apprentice Engineer

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    Hope we get murder holes, portcullis and what not.
     
  7. fazan64 Trainee Engineer

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    Well, implementing lakes or even seas for ships to sail is nothing hard. It's just a large volume of space with buoyancy and wind-dependant surface effects (waves). Also some cosmetic underwater effects like dim vision.

    Using water itself for machinery or whatever could be implemented by a separate system.
     
  8. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    I was thinking about a balance between performance and aesthetics.

    I imagine some like Everquest Landmark´s water.

    Isn´t volumetric at all, but it has waves and it fit with all around it (a bit weird if you use it in a little pool but...). And it can be used as "material" too

    I think something like that would be a good midpoint to work with by the moment

    Example Video Here

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2015
  9. Martinineter Senior Engineer

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    I played that 'game', it is bad. However, the water does indeed look great, it is not the best, but it is good enough.
     
  10. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    Thats good and all, but what happens if I dig into the land next to it, then how does it look filling in that open space ?
     
  11. Martinineter Senior Engineer

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    Not sure, I only played for a few hours. I believe you don't see the flow but the animation just pops in when the ground is low enough and connected to another waterbody.
     
  12. X__INFINITY__X Apprentice Engineer

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    I just want my water wheels to move in water. As long as water can do that and have a current, just so i can float logs down stream to the my castle, i'm fine.
     
  13. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    Theoretically, you could build a portcullis out of the "Dynamic" blocks, position it inside of a gatehouse, and hook it up to two of those rope cranks. As long as both sides are synced up, it should work flawlessly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  14. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
  15. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    Maybe some kind of GPU generated water like Stranded Deep water? Maybe too high requirements with high amount of it...

    Video here
     
  16. Giulianosse Trainee Engineer

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    But the thing is: Medieval Engineers has voxel terrain, so the only way to add any kind of liquid would be if they were volumetric, which is out of the question for games due to performance impact, so they would mold as the terrain got modified.

    A non-volumetric type of water would be too unrealistic and ugly, so it's better to have no water at all IMO.
     
  17. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    Volumetric isn´t the single option, it could be like Landmark, like I say above.
    Water is a must have in this game, even if at the beginning don´t fit very well.

    VIDEO HERE
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
  18. Roebuck17 Trainee Engineer

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    How about they implement volumetric water. But those who don't have good enough computers can turn it off. That's fair enough isn't it
     
  19. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

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    water is not a must have in this game, that is just your opinion. It can do fine without any large bodies of water.
    though IMO it indeed is very cool to have
     
  20. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    Is my opinion,of course, but was the main driving force together with wind and animal powered gears in the medieval time. If this is about engineering and want to keep it realistic, is a must have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
  21. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

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    it can be realistic without water. i think you're thinking about castles near rivers that use the flowing water, but not all castles are near rivers. so it is perfectly possible to be realistic without water (other then ofcourse a water well, but the only physics there is a bucket going down and going back up with magically appearing water and then you would have water as an item (like Marek said in the interview, water as an item))
    and i state again it would be very cool indeed to have it. and it would expand more possibilities of contraptions, but it's still perfectly realistic without it.
    *Edit, removed a mistake*
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
  22. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    My post start with "In my opinion", because in my opinion is a must have, I can´t be clearest in terms of my opinion m8.
     
  23. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

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    uh.. uhm.. WOOPS *walks away ashamed*
    my sincerest apologies for my inability to read correctly! :(
     
  24. Dylantriskel Apprentice Engineer

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    No problem mate.
     
  25. cptsteel Trainee Engineer

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    I still it wouldn't be realistic without water unless the game is based on a medieval period not on earth. The fact is that 70% of the earth is covered by water. During the medieval time period most settlements were close to bodies of water. Water is an obstacle a barrier of sorts against land armies. It is also transportation and when moving can be converted to energy with water wheels. Without water we will not getting the full emersion possible with this game and all I want is the best game possible.

    I just cant see myself roaming the world and never encountering a stream, lake or ocean. Maybe water is a difficult thing to add in this game but it is not impossible since many other games have it.
    To complete I will be satisfied as long as the full game release has it as an optional feature to be turned on or off in the graphics settings. That way the game can still be played without it if its too graphically demanding. Lets encourage the dev team to add it. Thanks
     
  26. cedi Apprentice Engineer

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    Hmm, it seems that both SoA and Voxel Farm seem to handle volumetric water quite well. Though I don't trust Voxel Farm entirely to not use some dirty tricks due to their wanting to sell the engine. (Considering that the video I saw had neither the pc specs nor a FPS display or any excessive movement of the game character.)

    And SoA has these minecraft sized voxels...



    Though it is impressive what their engine can do.
     
  27. Ravager Trainee Engineer

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    If the water can operate like in SoA... I just about think I'd jizz my pants.
     
  28. EZ Pickins Trainee Engineer

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    This is encouraging....

    From ME Facebook page...

    Medieval Engineers inspiration and useful info:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_fortification#Materials


    C
    ontained therein...

    Essential. I do hope Keen takes that part to heart.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2015
Thread Status:
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