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We have had a message from Keen: Kind of.

Discussion in 'General' started by locutus12, May 5, 2015.

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  1. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    My question is how do you know that this Locutus isn't just lying? He could even be twisting the devs words. Honestly I faced palmed when you actually trusted someone from the Internet saying that a dev told him to say this. I think people don't even understand anything. Saying it' Alpha is a stupid explanation. People telling devs how to develope is just foolish. No one knows what they're talking about. It's rediculus to me maybe if people were thinking they wouldn't trust some random guy on the Internet. Drui post on the forums so I don't see why they'd tell some guy to post this opinion. My suggestion is to be smart and actually make sure your not making the mistake, and then go from there. Also fanboy whiners and other name calling. Are we 5? Well I guess some could, but I'd hope not. I'd like to see common sense used instead of over thinking everything.

    Edit: To make it easier read my signature.
     
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  2. rexxar Senior Engineer

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    Yeah, it's you. You're not a player, you're a tester.

    I do allso catch fanboys drift.
    gotta defend what you got, regardles of its quality.

    Such as? There are minor bugs like assembler co-op that aren't fixed and won't be until beta, which is months or years away. They aren't game-breaking and have workarounds. They're nuisances, but bugfixing is not part of alpha. There are huge bugs like rotors and pistons that aren't fixed and won't be because the system needs an overhaul, which takes months of development. Keen are pretty good at fixing game-breaking bugs like the Oxygen consumption issues from a couple weeks ago. What major bugs other than pistons/rotors or anything involving multiplayer have stayed broken for multiple months? Pistons/rotors and MP don't count because they require complete overhaul, and the devs have stated they're working on just that. A fix is coming, but the development of such a thing is a huge project, it simply takes time.

    What the hell are you talking about? When a new feature is introduced, bugs are inevitable. However, we have a new feature to play with and test. There has not been a single update that introduces new bugs without also giving us new features.

    Keen have their own internal bug tracker. This has been discussed before, and they have their reasons to keep it private. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it's their decision. It may help deter people from flaming demanding the devs prioritize their pet feature when they see it in the bug tracker, but it does make it look like they're doing less work than they are. At minimum, we need more detailed patch notes.

    Again, what the hell are you talking about? Seriously, what have Keen done that is unprofessional?

    I think we all know what a stupid remark this is.
     
  3. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    That's actually the old school way of testing and many companies still go that route. One of my friends/coworkers is regularly signed up with many game companies who send out closed alpha invites with NDA's. You usually have to post your system specs and even your gaming history (which is one of the few times I can see the gaming resume being valid), along with any other qualifications that you may have. Through him I was able to get into early access for Firefall and before that I did testing for Fallen Earth (sadly neither game has fared well).
    This approach is a more recent trend in the evolution of game design. It's like a kickstarter but at the same time it's not, because with a kickstarter the company has to show a demo and reach a fund checkpoint before they receive money for development, whereas here the company can release the game and improve it in time and sales constantly stream in. Every system has it's pro's and cons, and I totally see where you are coming from here in that players purchase a cheap game for their cheap rig, and then go on to complain about issues without realizing they are the tester, or not caring as many have admitted to. At the same time I can also see how it can an issue with small developer teams throwing a quick game on steam and then never really going anywhere with it. I'm specifically am noting all those minecraft clones made by Russian developer that have been popping up left n right on steam as of late.
     
  4. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    They aren't unprofessional just some people don't like their style of development which is fair enough. (Also what do you consider professional. EA, Microsoft, Valve recently, And more are professional developers and they have done some terrible things way worse than keen has ever done.)
     
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  5. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    I was going to write a long, rather tiresome response to the entire original post, but I realized there was little point to doing so, especially since locutus12 was kind enough to encapsulate everything wrong with his thinking in one handy sentence:
    The fact that you even mention a roll back shows that you don't understand one of the primary reasons for making Space Engineers available for early access. That reason is testing. We are not here to play this game; we are here to test it. We are here to poke around in the game, and find out what goes wrong when we do things with the current version. How are you supposed to do that if you don't have the most recent version in development?

    If they roll the game back, they deprive themselves of all the many players, who play the game different ways, on different hardware, on different versions of the operating system. That would slow development down, not speed it up, and as someone who is almost literally salivating at the thought of someday having stable multiplayer, I do not want development to be slowed down. The fact that this method of testing is frustrating for you is irrelevant; they have explicitly said that the game is still being developed, that it is not finished, and that bugs are to be expected. They have told you not to buy the game unless you can handle that. All this being demonstrably true, let me spell this out for you as plainly as possible:

    You have no right to resent the presence of bugs.

    To be annoyed by them? Hell yes; the large thrusters blowing up on small ships drove me to distraction for months. Welders not working properly were incredibly frustrating, and fast-moving objects vanishing into thin air still makes me quit out of the game to do something else while I cool down. But I don't ask them to roll back, because I read the fine print. I know that I acknowledged, when I gave them my money, that the game might not live up to my expectations.

    Honestly? I did not expect it to live up to my expectations; at the time, I thought StarMade was going to be the game I ended up preferring. However, I thought what KSH was trying to do looked really cool; I preferred the more pseudo-realistic approach to StarMade's more Minecrafty approach, I loved the collisions, and I wanted to support their efforts even if I ended up wasting my money.

    Early access is an opportunity to be a guinea pig in the hope that the experiments performed on you will improve your chances of getting something you want. If you don't want to be experimented on, don't volunteer to be a guinea pig; nobody made you buy the game.
     
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  6. plaYer2k Master Engineer

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    3,160
    I have never seen that in any bug report, other than those with content like "this game sucks! Fix it asap!!1! of course.
    So any bug report that contains the actual issue, ideally with proper title, reproduceable steps and images/video/world, got either other uses with similar issues or simply no big response.

    If the devs knew that bug already is sometimes known but not all of them get feedback from Phand, which is not feasible either.

    Could you please stop dividing everyone here into two groups? Either they share your opinion and thus are the keepers of quality or they simply are blind fanboys. That gets rather old and tiresome. It also takes off seriousness and objectivity from your statements.

    That however goes toward others too. Lets please not escalate into a too heated discussion so that it starts flaming.
    Surs it is the internet, but too harsh words only fortify sides and dont contribute to solutions.

    They might not be the best or pretty good in some areas, but well they are young as a company with only one previous title miner wars.
    That however doesnt generally make them bad.
    I still make many mistakes and i sadly am not that young anymore, in internet scales.

    Like i previously said, they sure dont handle dev->community communications very good in my opinion.
    Thus i frequently suggest a good community manager for that. Someone who understands the game and is close to both community and developers. Much like @Xocliw did with his interviews a long time ago. But more in a constant fashion who asks the devs about their current plans, progress, issues, talks about frequent and promising suggestions aswell as whatever drives the chatter currently. Those informations would then be directed to the according posts and/or a weekly collection post summarizing questions, answers, general thoughts and cat images.
     
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  7. rexxar Senior Engineer

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    I think a community manager would do wonders for the forum. We really need more communication from the devs. I think that's part of what causes the hate on the forum. Or maybe not, but some transparency should at least alleviate some of it.
     
  8. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    The devs don't talk about features because weekly updates do it for them. That's the whole point of weekly updates. It is to 1. Sometimes help with bugs that can only be publicly detected, and 2. Show that they are working on the game. I don't like people knowing everything I think it brings up expectations and hype too much. I like to keep medium expectations all the time but some go a little bit too far when they here about features. Asking for more communication seems a bit overkill to me they should allow to keep surprises. They shouldn't have to tell you what they are and aren't working on, because them telling you isn't gonna make you feel better if they tell you they aren't working on something you want. I like the current communication, but maybe another Q and A or 2 would be in order though. I'm not a big "the community needs to know everything guy." I don't think knowing every decision is a good move. I think you shouldn't be telling what's being worked on and what's not all the time because people start thinking its next update and then get mad at the devs for there overly high expectations.
     
  9. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    Wow! When @DDP-158 pointed me to this thread I knoew I would found chaos, but things escalated here aye?

    I do agree that using the "It's Alpha" is really non sense most the times. But.. OP is angry and he should calm down before he crosses the line and a moderator shows him the hammer.

    After the last update, I loaded one of my saves, I use the mod "Kolt - Command Console Pack", wonderful mod by the way. My character just can't sit on the consoles anymore. A pity, but I didn't freak out about it.

    What I agree is that more information regarding the scope of the changes. They released a model to develop gestures, but forgot to mention changes on the functions for the default actions, like sit on a chair. Still, nothing to really freak out about.

    What is really bugging me out is the absence of a good multiplayer code, I already read Marek blog post, yada yada yada... It's been a year now and nothing implemented on game has been seen.
     
  10. Wizlawz Master Engineer

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    aye agreed, this is one of the best forums / communities i have ever had the privilege of being a part of, the members of this community can pretty much police themselves without the needs of any moderators.

    and this community has knowledge of things {to me anyway} i have never seen before in any other community.

    and are very good at debating and stating facts and not arguing opinions and bs in negative ways, mostly.
     
  11. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    Agreed. As game communities go, this one rocks.
     
  12. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    People should really join the SE steam group and follow their Twitter because then you would've found this http://t.co/vfJRjMmBfj. Granted, they could've posted on the forums, but it's not like you can't fairly easily find it.
     
  13. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Unless you want some fiction in your science fiction. In that case you better raise shields, arm phaser banks and haul ass at Warp 13.

    edit: since when are we allowed to use swearwords, btw? Very refreshing. The Buck was getting worn out.
     
  14. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    1,606
    Seems to me OP is just raging because he did not like the last update and the game is not like he wants it to be or how he wants it to work and how keen should react at his demands.

    Making false claims, numbers and %s out of thin air and just general rant at something he just doesnt like. I would recommend the OP the leave for a few weeks, months or well, forever and to stay away from Early Access games as it is something he cant deal with at the moment.

    Looks like someone found a new ally for their hate campaign.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  15. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    I don't see what's so terrible about a few hand glitches from a first implementation. What's so bad that you have to roll back because a couple of hand spasms pop out that only don't look pleasing.
     
  16. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    It's probably more related to the medbay death issue or the superman bug, If I remember right he was also raging because he could not use custom cockpits in another thread.
     
  17. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    It's just a few animation fixes to the mod. All you need to do is copy the animation that the devs used. If you are using a custom animation use the dev made one and edit it from there.
     
  18. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    Yeah, but that's up to the modder to update their mods, no idea why he cant see this and just blames it on the update.
     
  19. Ulfsark Master Engineer

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    And yet, throughout all the people complaining about all the bugs and this and that and nothing gets fixed, none of you have tried MINING this past few days and the fact that performance has improved a LOT?
     
  20. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    People seem to forget 5 out of the 3 to 8 normal bugs created are fixed by Friday, if it's not it is usually fixed by Thursday. The whole "keen never fixed bugs thing" is a bunch of stupid bs. The only bugs that have yet to be fixed (which will be fixed soon) are the multiplayer netcode bugs.
     
  21. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    It's easier to focus on the bad things more than on the good things.
     
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  22. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Admittedly my humble Survival save IS currently stricken with a bug where my Engineer can't move anymore because he's stuck in med bays. Single player, no mods. Thankfully restricted to that very safe.

    Which, considering focusing on the bad things is our job as testers, is actually a good thing.

    I should stop posting in this thread, it makes me look like i agree with the borg.
     
  23. Ulfsark Master Engineer

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    What major bugs have we had? I remember being unable to create new ships. Unable to weld. Merge blocks are no longer shot up by turrets when you grind them down. The old respawn bug where you'd spawn 6 blocks away from the medbay (which, incidently, would have prevented this bug). GPS coordinates not disappearing when you unclicked "show on HUD". o2 tanks and farms not updating/working right on DS's. And, for the record, i haven't had a ship fly off on its own upon exiting the cockpit since the last update.
     
  24. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    Oh yeah, experienced that, reported the bug, was noted by Phand. It's physics freeze, after the lastest update I dont have the problem anymore...I did not save when It froze though...

    Just use SEToolBox and move your stuff to a new world?

    Still, whenever they fix something noone really talks about it, Yet when something doesnt work complains pop up here and there, even if the bug is already reported.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  25. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    The stuck thing is a rare bug there are still a few of those around that I could never explain. One time I logged on to a offline singleplayer game and the no message receive from server thing was up forever and I couldn't do anything. I also saw a stream when the same thing happened. Relogging fixed it for me. Try verifying, sometimes that fixes that stuck bug. There's also one where your small ship becomes a static object and impossible to move.
     
  26. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Don't care enough and i have a blueprint of the little scout ship i built. No time for that anyway, got to find places to hide internal thrusters with a suitably long exhaust hole. I'm fairly sure some fix in the future will take care of this; if it doesn't i don't really care.

    I don't think that's true, it's probably just not focused as much in clusters of similar threads in the General Board.
     
  27. Nacon Junior Engineer

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    591
    Take your "game investor" entitlement elsewhere, it's not welcomed here.

    Also... I already posted this on your other thread.
    http://forums.keenswh.com/threads/c...yes-i-know-its-alpha.7359036/#post-1286757604


    Now stop bothering the devs and the mods. Let them do their jobs. You only can just report the problem you have on the bug report section only once. Not harass them as if it's all politic and other entitlement non-sense. They're not out against you or wanted to avoid fixing things because you can't have some fun right at this minute. Quit being absurd. I've had problems too, I've reported them in bug report section and waited like a good boy. They managed to fixed it. That's how the game development work.

    And now here you are, creating another rant thread. Have you got no shame?
     
  28. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    I reread his post and now I think that he doesn't even know what he's talking about. Breaking survival, I don't see what breaks survival here. I've seen plenty who can play fine. 95% would skip this update. Ya and I bet those 95% would skip the game because it's "so buggy." I think it's more like 35% at most and stop speaking for everyone that's very impolite. 18 months and these are some of the worst bugs. That's amazing to me if these are some of the worst next to the multiplayer ones than that's good. I'd still like to hear what game breaking animation bugs people are talking about?

    Edit: @Nacon i will say I don't agree with a lot of that chart though. Some of it I do especially the "people are stupid" part. I think devs should fix things when they can, but I think people need to understand priorities of fixing the bug, knowledge about the bug, and difficulty of fixing the bug.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  29. hellokeith Apprentice Engineer

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    Fanboism strong it is with this one. Thread lock soon, methinks.
     
  30. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    I hate 3 words whiners, alpha, and Fanboys. They are all so stupid and pointless just because someone argues your objection doesn't make them a fanboy/whiner. People with nothing to explain themselves are, but people with explanations are just people who disagree.
     
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