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WE NEED AI/NPC's ATTENTION DEVS!!!

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by niteowl84, Jan 22, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    while this game is coming along nicely and im rather impressed with the level of detail gone into everything there is one huge problem i foresee in the near and distant future of this game. To say no to AI/NPC's in a game such as this especially with survival mode...is not only disappointing to those of us who have spent money on this game to support its development but also a let down as you need this in any game to keep things interesting.

    To say players are the only threat in the game is kind of lame and sounds boring. I mean if we have nothing to survive against what is the point of even bothering with survival? Only thing we will have to do to survive against is the dreary miserable boredom from having nothing to do once we have built everything that we can or want to.

    What is the point of even building all these defenses if there is nothing to defend against? What do you do once you have built everything? I really think that you as devs you should really rethink this more while its still in development. I want to help support you guys every step of the way but in return i want a challenge, as many of the community have voiced this concern/oppinion in various threads at some point or another about this topic. There is clearly a demand for this and we hope that you indeed take our feedback and ideas and make it happen.

    By no means is this post meant to be offensive or slander in nature. I think the game is amazing so far and i would love to see it last a long time. But reality of it is, how much building can you do before you get bored of it? With nothing to really fight against, it provides very little future playability other then build build and build some more. This game desperatly needs something else besides building guys. The monsters in minecraft adds a certain feel to it that you wont get out of playing it normally without them. This game needs that edge as well... please please listen to us, your supporters, your community, your fans.
     
  2. DocTanner Junior Engineer

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    Didn't read. Just needed to say this:

    All-caps = yelling
    Yelling at devs = rude.
     
  3. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

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    Shoulda read.

    As it's in response to this.
     
  4. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    indeed it is... and maybe you should have a little read :) its a huge disappointment and let down for us supporters. and the caps are not always yelling...sometimes its just to make it stand out :)

    I hope that they seriously rethink this... i fear the future of the game might end as fast as it began. to not place NPC's in the game all because they cant be creative is ridiculous... we just need em to fly around in pre-made ships and attack us from time to time or something... dont need creativity.. i say rethink it...or the game wont make it to far unfortunately and its sad cause i think this game has alot of potential hence my stance on this topic... i just want to see it succeed.
     
  5. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    I never envisaged myself playing with AI ever, nor did I ever see it as a planned feature when I bought this game.

    So for me, nothing has changed. There has been no 'let down'.
     
  6. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    192
    i was hoping for some challenge when they said it would be having survival mode and thats what enticed me into buying this game. after seeing the videos and seeing how real it can be and i got to thinking survival will be absolutely amazing in this game...to have bought it and then find out that they wont be implementing anything was kinda a huge letdown... shame...again...i really hope they change their minds on this.
     
  7. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    I understand the disappointment.

    But none of the game information, planned features, dev blogs, videos or screenshots alluded to the game having AI. So I wouldn't call it a letdown.
     
  8. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

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    1,930
    Well there are mentions of Pirates in the game files, so I assume people got excited over the idea of fighting space pirates with their ships.

    Kinda defeats the purpose of weapons in single player, though.

    I mean, rockets can be used for mining, sure, but what are you going to use an interior turret on a fixed station for?

    If single player is just going to be like a workshop for blueprints to use in Multiplayer, then what would be the point of having single player survival?

    Granted, this is just all speculation, but it's like single player is pretty much pointless now.
     
  9. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    What would be the point of not allowing single player survival if the code is all there?
     
  10. GDFKingTigerTank Apprentice Engineer

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    His point is that there's no reason for single player survival without NPCs. Because you're surviving against.... what? Unless survival is going to eventually include the need to eat/drink/manufacture breathable air/etc. to keep ourselves alive single player survival mode becomes pointless. I mean yes George could activate it if the code is there but what's point to that mode then?

    At which point, creative mode single player stands as THE viable safe building/testing area for blueprints which can be used for multiplayer creative and multiplayer survival mode games where survival and competition is specifically against other human players.

    I'm not saying we need NPCs, I'm simply stating that without them, unless the scope of "survival mode" is going to change to something more "Rust/DayZ" like (minus NPCs), a single player survival mode adds no real value.

    But I would not have been opposed to scanning an asteroid for minerals thinking I've hit the jackpot, only to get closer and discover it has a pirate base buried into it with active turrets and a pirate ship lurking on the other side of the asteroid...
     
  11. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    192
    yeah this is something that the devs should really have paid more attention to and i hope that they give it more consideration in the very near future otherwise this game is never gonna reach its true potential. I mean look at that game Evochron renegades, that was developed on dark basic and it was managed to have pirates, hell even had frigates and carriers in the game to keep things intresting.. to this day its still got a decent following... devs should wake up and follow suit on this or loose out on what could have been the best space game out today :/
     
  12. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    its not even called 'survival' anyway right?

    Its called Manual Mode.

    Because construction is Manual, rather than Automatic as we have it already.
     
  13. BlankWarningsign Apprentice Engineer

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    278
    Why not both?

    Have a "Peaceful Mode" for people who don't want NPCs.

    As for me, I want something to shoot and blow up in Singleplayer besides ROCKS!

    This seems like the most short sighted decision the Devs could come up with.
     
  14. BlankWarningsign Apprentice Engineer

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    I love everything in This Post
     
  15. GDFKingTigerTank Apprentice Engineer

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    Well and there you have it. The intended mode name doesn't reflect any sort of "survival challenge" element. Which means that part of the problem is that because from the very beginning this community called it "survival", it attached a contextual reference to the mode that probably was never intended just because it seemed to make sense compared to other games like minecraft / dayz / etc.

    So I guess the next question for George is whether or not in his vision those features such as solar flares/radiation/space hazards/whatever will not exist in the creative mode at all -aka are those "manual mode only" challenges? Or if all that stuff will be totally configurable for both modes, and also just how dangerous will said events will be?
     
  16. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    192
    if its called manual mode then why is it listed as "Survival" in the game settings for world generation? i dont wanna argue or anything just stating the obvious and that alot of people including me would love to see this game succeed and have something more to do in it then just build things wither in creative or manual mode. I hope to see some updates from the devs after reading all the requests for this to be placed in the game...see how the feel bout it later or something... speaking of which any chance yo uknow when the next update might be?? im eagerly awaiting some news
     
  17. freshmango55 Apprentice Engineer

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    If they don't add AI then they effectively lose half their customers. The AI don't need to build anything. They can spawn in with pre built ships and seek out enemys within a general area from where they spawned. I think the Dev team is going about thinking of AI the wrong way, They don't need to be creative, they just need to be there in pre built ships to pose a potential danger. This game needs an antagonist to create a threat to the player that he has to work to defend against. What is this pirate base file in the data if it's not a hive for hostile NPCs?
     
  18. JNC Apprentice Engineer

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    195
    Hmm.. here's a few quotes I found fitting for AI implementation since SE seems to have a lot of these :p
    Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish. - Marcus Aurelius -
    Impossible only means that you haven’t found the solution yet. – Anonymous -
    There is nothing impossible to him who will try. - Alexander the Great -
    The difficult is what takes a little time the impossible is what takes a little longer. - Fridtjof Nansen -
    Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done. - Louis D Brandeis -
    The difference between impossible and the possible lies in a man’s determination. - Tommy Lasorda -
    Making AI that are truely creative may be very challenging indeed but I do not think we need that? Im sure they could be given some kind of 'decision tree' with some guidence and randomization to make functional ships / stations that give the impression of creativity...? I tried finding the blog where it was said we wouldnt have A.I. but havent yet... I did find this though which answers a few questions people are posing here in the suggestions thread... might be in there somewhere? How about this? "We have a prioritized list of things to do. Priority is set by how much community wants that or if we think it's MUST HAVE thing" - Mark Rosa -
    Think that could apply to A.I.? If you tell us it's not going to happen for some silly reason like that why dont you just say "because I dont want there to be A.I." instead :mad:
     
  19. Bobbyjoeangus Trainee Engineer

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    I totally agree with you! What would be the point of survival/manual mode with nothing to survive against? Sit around bored out of you mind with nothing to fight mode?
     
  20. Paracelse Alchemist Trainee Engineer

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    Go see this post
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/in-response-to-marek-who-discarted-the-npcai-6726982?pid=1281266780#post1281266780
     
  21. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    you're not selecting game mode, but starting condition.

    its not the same thing.

    Survival scenario is just another name for starting with limited resources.
     
  22. Oselotti Junior Engineer

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    837
    Actually this is the most imortant question of the whole game's future and the direction where it's going. If there's never any AI enemies I'll regret that I got this game at the first place and cannot suggest it to any of my friends who are planning to buy this. I believe the NPC enemies are the most wanted feature of the whole game. So many people couldn’t care Less of multiplayer or for some like me it's just an mildly interesting extra.
     
  23. TivNuz Trainee Engineer

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    indeed, I would really like some AI action. don't want the game to only have PvP value. i like doing stuff by my self. and random pirate bases and stuff like that would sertently make me want to design ships with a specific purpose in mind. different PvE scenarios would need different approaches
     
  24. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    All of my friends who bought this never even assumed there was ever going to be AI.

    They all bought it for the multiplayer.

    On a large gaming forum with a large SE thread, AI almost has never even been mentioned at all since the very beginning.

    It seems mostly unique to some regulars to this forum more than anything.
     
  25. lucadena Apprentice Engineer

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    I obviously bought this game for single player/survival and I assumed npc were going to be implemented.
    without npc for me this game is just space invaders without anything to shoot at.
    If only I knew of this stupid decision I would not have bought this game.
     
  26. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    What would be the point in playing if there there is nothing to survive against?
     
  27. OracleTX Apprentice Engineer

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    Not everybody is dying for multiplayer. I've been having fun building stuff, but I definitely like to pit my skills against AI opponents rather than PvP. Both Co-op and solo play are priorities for me, but if solo doesn't work/exist/entertain, I'll likely play much less if at all.

    For example, I love mecha combat games, but rarely touch Hawken.
     
  28. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    192
    THere is a pretty high demand for AI in this game i wonder what it will take to get the devs attention on this? i tihnk the future of the game is more reliant on wither or not we have something to do in the game as opposed to wither or not multiplayer works tho i have to say i am a fan of multi always have been but i have also been a fan of challenge and change. If this game doesnt pose any challenge other then long building times ill prob get fed up with it real quick and roll on to something that does pose a challenge and where the devs take advice from the community as a whole. This is a feature that alot of people clearly care enough about to post and make a stance on and if the devs are truly allowing the players to shape the game then this is one theing that they should add or they will most certainly loose half of their customer base before they even gain them.
     
  29. Leon026 Apprentice Engineer

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    155
    To think that this game doesnt need AI and can survive in a multiplayer-only environment is a very, very dangerous assumption to make.

    What happens when there are dips to the playerbase because things are getting slow and there is a holiday season approaching? Player count drops, people play less because there are less people around, and in the end thing nothing is ever going on, noone plays, and the game dies. I think right now, many people, myself included are on a building frenzy because we're eagerly waiting blueprints and a chance to play with our ships in a multiplayer setting. But if there aren't super-servers capable of hosting many people, and there arent shards and server-jumping when you go through a system gate to another world (for example), and the server is limited to 16 people.... welp. Other than playing Call of Duty in spaceships, which can only be fun for so long, it's just not going to do well.You could do a 16-player "survival mode", but with nothing to survive against, and your only big project is to build a super massive spaceship so you can spin it in a station, or in this case space.... it'll get stale.
     
  30. niteowl84 Apprentice Engineer

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    192
    I agree 100% with your post leon, this game is destined to die if the devs dont step up to the plate and do something bout it. NPC's needs to happen in this game, in order to attract other players (like myself who bought this for that purpose) or keep players there needs to be some level of immersion to keep us entertained... its like duck hunt minus the duck.... its going to get boring really fast. People are on this big building frenzy now because its new..its something differant...but once you build everything that you can build your left with nothing to do other then sit in your cockpit and ponder the meaning of life lol.... dont sound to inticing here to me... it'll be a tragedy if the devs decide to ignore this clearly large outcry for AI in this game... be a shame to watch this game with so much potential just fade into the background and turns into nothing but a distant memory...shame devs dont listen to the community i know they have their own agenda but keeping the player base should be on top of that list.
     
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